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Quasar
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I'm skeptical of all media, regardless of the political interest it serves. I'm sure that Russian media is biased toward Russian interests so I must take anything there in that light. But, I already know American media is 100% putrid garbage propaganda. There's no debating that.

Old Post 03-06-14 03:20 #
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4shockblast
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The Russian media is just as biased as American media, based on what I've seen. Don't trust either.

Old Post 03-06-14 03:25 #
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Ralphis
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If there is any media you can trust, surely it's the Russian media

Old Post 03-06-14 03:26 #
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188DarkRevived
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From what my family heard through the Russian media, a military warehouse was raided by some pro-EU protesters shortly before Yanukovich made his cowardly escape. Guns and ammunition have been stolen by civilians from soldiers who were instructed not to kill civilians.
This raid on a military warehouse has caused the citizens of Crimea to panic and feel insecure. Hence why they were praying for protection from Putin, and their prayers were answered.

I'd be tempted to assume that the whole anarchy requires some kind of extra-terrestrial intervention and wisdom which is utterly unbiased to either side. But again, how realistic is that, and is it really an option that can be chosen by us?

Last edited by 188DarkRevived on 03-06-14 at 04:16

Old Post 03-06-14 04:11 #
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fraggle
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Russia Today (Russian government owned news outlet) anchor Liz Wahl resigns because she can't be part of a network "that whitewashes the actions of Putin".


188DarkRevived said:
This raid on a military warehouse has caused the citizens of Crimea to panic and feel insecure. Hence why they were praying for protection from Putin, and their prayers were answered.

You have a disturbing amount of faith in a regime that's essentially a corrupt dictatorship known primarily nowadays for its criminal acts and human rights abuses.

Old Post 03-06-14 04:22 #
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Gez
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188DarkRevived said:
From what my family heard through the Russian media, a military warehouse was raided by some pro-EU protesters shortly before Yanukovich made his cowardly escape. Guns and ammunition have been stolen by civilians from soldiers who were instructed not to kill civilians.

Well, not-Russian media announced the Russian army in Crimea had destroyed Ukrainian military warehouses, as well as parked trucks on Ukrainian airfields to prevent planes from taking off or landing, and pretty much surrounded every Ukrainian military base on the peninsula with troops.

Old Post 03-06-14 04:36 #
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GreyGhost
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188DarkRevived said:
Open your mind and reach out for the real truth. Don't be a sheep.
Pro-EU sheep or pro-Russian sheep? Not that I think it matters a damn who they follow, sheep exist to be slaughtered and both sides are gathering their flocks.

Old Post 03-06-14 04:45 #
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machoman127
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Quasar said:
I'm skeptical of all media, regardless of the political interest it serves. I'm sure that Russian media is biased toward Russian interests so I must take anything there in that light. But, I already know American media is 100% putrid garbage propaganda. There's no debating that.

You're mostly right -- Russian press backs Russia but mainstream American press backs Obama, not America. Sad but true.

Old Post 03-06-14 10:29 #
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Jodwin
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188DarkRevived said:
Open your mind and reach out for the real truth. Don't be a sheep.

In that case, maybe you should try not consuming media from a country that has no real freedom of press.

Old Post 03-06-14 11:28 #
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dew
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machoman127 said:
You're mostly right -- Russian press backs Russia but mainstream American press backs Obama, not America. Sad but true.

And in this regard Russia = Putin, because he knows best what Russia needs. Harassment of media who dare to speak against Putin is already an established tradition.


Quasar said:
If you believe Russian media, there hasn't even BEEN an invasion so far, because Russia is legally allowed up to 24000 troops in the Crimea as per its agreement with the Ukraine made after the dissolution of the USSR, ratified by both governments in 1997. Anybody want to comment on the veracity of that?

I seriously doubt their legal presence in Crimea means they're allowed to roll around in tanks and unmarked uniforms. It most likely means the upper number of soldiers that can be stationed in the Black Sea Fleet naval base. Btw, according to Ukrainian officials and media (pinch of salt?) that number has already been overstepped greatly.

Actually, there's one more interesting issue here - Sevastopol is its own independent region (city with special status) and NOT a part of the surrounding Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Wanna bet that might be a legal hiccup Putin just glosses over by talking about "Crimea" as a... peninusula?

Old Post 03-06-14 12:06 #
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Maes
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The Greek people found themselves in a weird situation, regarding the Ukrainian situation: most of us are filo-Russian to various degrees, due to cultural ties and a general sympathy for what we perceive to be the "most wronged" side/the underdog in any issue, and also because we all like anyone who's trying to stick it to "The Man", typically the USA and its lackeys. In this case, Russia is seen as the "good" side for several reasons, perhaps because seeing that someone can successfully antagonize the EU, the USA and NATO gives us some kind of hope. Don't even ask how that's supposed to work *rolleyes*

There's also an apocryphal legend/prophecy that the Russians, called "The Blond race" (Το Ξανθό γένος) due to a legend dating back to the fall of the Byzantine Empire, would play the role of saviours or redeemers of Greece's (or Byzantium's?) greatness in some unspecified point in the future.

On the other hand however, our official position in the EU and the fact that it's our turn to the EU's presidency resulted in some quite contradictory actions, which IMO are just diplomatic suicide. And let's not mention this one weird trick:

http://www.makeleio.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/venizelos-oukranos-nazistikos-xairetismos.jpg

Yup, our "beloved" Deputy Prime Minister & Foreign Minister shaking hands with a questionable "president" of limited recognition (and an undeniable fascist). That sure will please the Kremlin...NOT (with a Borat accent). Let alone the even more glaring contradiction with the fact that "fascists" in Greece are pretty much politically persecuted, officially "were shocked and awe'd in legality".

More practicaly, Russians tourists had become an important economic resource in recent years, especially in Northern Greece, with over 1.400.000 visiting each year, and practically single-handedly supporting all Northern Greece tourism, as well as some specialized industries, like fur and gold products. We had even went out of our way to grant them simplified & speedy visa approvals, but if the EU will impose sanctions on them, that's 1.400.000 tourists out the window and another economic catastrophe on top of what's already pretty much shit, as if our politicians' passive-aggressive and EU/IMF/NATO-driven stance wasn't already enough of a big nail in the coffin of our relations with Russia.

Old Post 03-06-14 12:16 #
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Avoozl
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The guy on the left almost looks similar to the Kabir character in the Chaser game.

Old Post 03-06-14 13:00 #
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myk
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The Russian media has always been propagandist while Western media generally comes out looking less biased because it can afford to and since it can spam more. Past these details, it's pretty clear the country's divided by cultural-ethnic lines and a few other shifts based on minority interests.


myk said:
This is one reason I think that the US aid to Ukraine can only be short-term. Anything else would have what really fuels US interventionism asking for something back from Ukraine, especially with the cost-cutting and debt pressures on Washington.
This looks clear now, as the US only offered 1 billion, and it's the EU that's offering a bigger loan, which is of course tied to the IMF and austerity requirements. Ukraine either gets little help or gets even deeper into creditors' pockets. EU legislators may be unsure about a new deal, but there are other powerful parties quite ready to do one. The existing debt is more of an incentive than an obstacle to those.


machoman127 said:
but mainstream American press backs Obama, not America.
Some does, to a point, but it's mostly a pressure point by its owners, associated financial groups and well-positioned lobbies that can themselves condition the media.


fraggle said:
Russia Today (Russian government owned news outlet) anchor Liz Wahl resigns because she can't be part of a network "that whitewashes the actions of Putin".
Do you buy the words of someone who was working for such media in the first place? Knowing Western media, there's also an internal capacity to destroy careers. Quitting now will give her good chances of getting a new job elsewhere, and not doing so of passing into obscurity, given her nationality.


corrupt
Everything that tends toward red (pain) colors is in areas that are threatened by US interventionism or attacks or are away from the Anglosphere. In addition to the index being somewhat racist, it's basically showing the "receiving end" of corruption, that ends up with the blame. The prey of white-gloved IMF vultures that make most of the rules. The main sources of corruption, in turn, are in many cases represented in yellow (warning) colors.


known primarily nowadays for its criminal acts
There's a tradition there that seems to go through the poisoning of Stalin and beyond, but assume you're Russian or linked to Russia for a moment, would you rely instead on the media of The United States of Guantanamo and subordinates? A place where its legislators and leaders are conditioned through anthrax and ricin letters?

It's one thing to call out possible deceptions or inaccuracies in Russian media, but demonizing the misogynistic, homophobic and scheming Putin here is "Godwin's law" material when the conflict has already gone past the letter of the law on various levels. To me it seems like a tactic that relies on formalities to avoid substance.

Old Post 03-06-14 14:27 #
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Maes
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myk said:
To me it seems like a tactic that relies on formalities to avoid substance.


There's a word for that..."politics", I believe.

Old Post 03-06-14 14:48 #
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Sokoro
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I do not even understand how is it, that there are people on doomworld who agree with the putin and his terrorists.
What kind of people are you letting to be in here?

Old Post 03-06-14 15:49 #
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Gez
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Sokoro said:
What kind of people are you letting to be in here?

Well it's a club that accepts you as a member. :p


myk said:
Everything that tends toward red (pain) colors is in areas that are threatened by US interventionism or attacks or are away from the Anglosphere. In addition to the index being somewhat racist, it's basically showing the "receiving end" of corruption, that ends up with the blame. The prey of white-gloved IMF vultures that make most of the rules. The main sources of corruption, in turn, are in many cases represented in yellow (warning) colors.

I refuse to believe the USA, home of the Monsanto Protection Act, isn't a much redder shade of orange than that.

Old Post 03-06-14 16:02 #
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188DarkRevived
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Sokoro said:
I do not even understand how is it, that there are people on doomworld who agree with the putin and his terrorists.
What kind of people are you letting to be in here?



Welcome to the 21st century, where even the most benevolent and non-aggressive person can still be framed to appear like a scary terrorist by being coerced through clever tactics and conspiracies.

Anyways, my dad suspects that if Ukraine does indeed join the EU then this new self-entitled unelected crook of a leader will just flee to the west and not care about the people to who he gave the so-called "democracy".
Meanwhile, me and my dad have aging relatives over there who are unable to flee. So naturally, we're going to be supporting those who you label as "terrorists", because at least these so-called "terrorists" can give more of a guarantee that my grandma will still have a decent pension of some kind to live on.

At least Putin didn't need to organize any riots and plead for intervention from other nations in order to earn his seat as President, unlike this pathetic crook who is in Kiev now.
"Terrorist?"
Pfft.

Old Post 03-06-14 18:09 #
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dew
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188DarkRevived said:
Meanwhile, me and my dad have aging relatives over there who are unable to flee. So naturally, we're going to be supporting those who you label as "terrorists", because at least these so-called "terrorists" can give more of a guarantee that my grandma will still have a decent pension of some kind to live on.

Naivete of this statement shatters my mind. You fled the poor country going westwards and left your aging relatives behind, but you believe Yanukovich with his opulent lifestyle, leeching of public funds and support of oligarchy would care about your grandma? With what money, country-grade social benefits from Tzar Putin? Then why didn't you migrate eastwards? If there's one thing for the better about this whole ordeal, it's removing Yanukovich from power.

Old Post 03-06-14 20:10 #
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myk
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dew said:
If there's one thing for the better about this whole ordeal, it's removing Yanukovich from power.
Much like Iraq and Libya are now much better off because Saddam and Gaddafi are gone?

Not to defend Yanukovich, but Tymoshenko seems to have been at least as corrupt, only prettier, and what's the alternative now? A government flanked by Nazi-like groups ready to make a neoliberal trade pact in disadvantaged conditions and when Russian-linked interests control the more developed or industrialized part of the country? From what I can tell, if there has been something that's been working in Ukraine, it's the generally decent living standards and relative economic equality. That is at risk now.

Old Post 03-06-14 21:16 #
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machoman127
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dew said:

Naivete of this statement shatters my mind. You fled the poor country going westwards and left your aging relatives behind, but you believe Yanukovich with his opulent lifestyle, leeching of public funds and support of oligarchy would care about your grandma? With what money, country-grade social benefits from Tzar Putin? Then why didn't you migrate eastwards? If there's one thing for the better about this whole ordeal, it's removing Yanukovich from power.


WELL SAID!!


Sicamore said:
Just wondering what people here think of what is going on over there. Being from Ukraine, seeing my home being destroyed and taken over by Russia is absolutely unacceptable. I hope Putin realizes what he is doing.

Of course he does. Why is he doing it? Because he can. Who's going to stop him? I agree, the situation is dire but, hey, I'm only a meddling American who has a ball-less Nubian prince running things here.

Old Post 03-06-14 21:23 #
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dew
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myk said:
Much like Iraq and Libya are now much better off because Saddam and Gaddafi are gone?

I do recognize your point here, trust me. American (and recently, reemerging European) interventionism is shameful in its hypocrisy. From my geopolitical position however, I see other parables - Hungary '56, Czechoslovakia '68, Poland '81. All those featured "letters of invitation" like Crimea/Yanukovich and the USSR "protected" whatever values they promoted at the time. Btw, if you truly want to shame the West, go with Kosovo. That was blanant nation-engineering and probably just means to humiliate Russia and create profit for several top ranked figures like Madelline Albright and Wesley Clark. It already bit the West in the ass, because it gave Russia an argument for what they're doing in Abkhazia, Southern Ossetia and now Crimea.

Still, Ukraine is unlike those Arab countries and the coup is hardly comparable. I also see a parable to coups that ended the communist regime in Eastern Bloc, like the Velvet Revolution of '89. It is terrible when major world powers hijack rightful revolutions, but surely you still understand the necessity of those. The one in France was perhaps the bloodiest, yet the most inspirational, eh?


Not to defend Yanukovich, but Tymoshenko seems to have been at least as corrupt, only prettier, and what's the alternative now? A government flanked by Nazi-like groups ready to make a neoliberal trade pact in disadvantaged conditions and when Russian-linked interests control the more developed or industrialized part of the country?

In today's (Czech) newspaper I've seen results of the first post-rev presidential poll and it's not that grim. The biggest favourite seems to be a billionaire that plays all sides, heh. His only real opponent is Klitchko and the extremist right is politically irrelevant with their candidates on the verge of obscurity (especially the loudmouth fascist Dmitro Yarosh).


From what I can tell, if there has been something that's been working in Ukraine, it's the generally decent living standards and relative economic equality. That is at risk now.

...haha. Compared to what, Africa? Anyone ablebodied, especially doctors and engineers, is fleeing Ukraine and slaving in nearby countries to send a bit of money home. The state is on the verge of bankrupcy. Even worse, Ukraine is the fastest dying nation in the world. Since the early 90's, the country lost almost 7 million people. That's absolutely not a mark of decent living standards, that's nation-wide miasma.

Old Post 03-06-14 22:18 #
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Technician
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myk said:
Much like Iraq and Libya are now much better off because Saddam and Gaddafi are gone?
I was just about to make that exact comparison but the reason Muslim countries need dictators is to suppress and extinguish extremism and basically enforce secularism onto their society. European countries just don't seem to have this problem so, into the trash Yanukovich goes. Good riddance.

Old Post 03-06-14 22:28 #
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Maes
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dew said:
Since the early 90's, the country lost almost 7 million people. That's absolutely not a mark of decent living standards, that's nation-wide miasma.


Well, Frau Merkel herself said that there's nothing wrong with moving or emigrating to find work, and she even brought the example of her homeland, East Germany. So that can't be used as an excuse or self-pity argument, sorry ;-)


Technician said:
European countries just don't seem to have this problem so, into the trash Yanukovich goes. Good riddance.


Define "European". I think the crisis showed in the most painful and unambigous way that "Europe" isn't only about Belgian chocolates and Viennese waltz, or drunk Oktoberfests. "Europe" means also PIIGS, "Europe" means also Poland's Special Economic Zones that have little to "envy" to Chinese ones, "Europe" also means countries like Croatia, Bulgaria , Romania, Latvia, with 100 Euro monthly salaries, massive debts, IMF intervention, mass poverty, etc. "Europe" is even considering countries such as Albania, Fyrom, Serbia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Bosnia etc. for membership. What the hell, everybody is suddenly "European"? And most importantly, is everybody equal among peers?

Even a nuclear superpower like France doesn't seem to fare very well. It'll be interesting to see how long they will put up with Fritz-dictated austerity until they make some Beau Geste and leave.

"Europe", as it is, only seems to work for Germany, some of its "satellite countries" (The Nederlands, Luxembourgh, Belgium, Austria) and the Scandinavian countries, in particular those NOT in the Euro. The UK is a special case, and it's de-facto already opting out.

So exactly which "Europe" are we talking about? And to which "Europe" would Ukraine belong to, if it ever joined?

Last edited by Maes on 03-06-14 at 22:45

Old Post 03-06-14 22:31 #
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Phobus
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Honestly, as an outsider sitting comfy in the UK, I think Putin (and by extension, Russia) is doing the right thing here. It's nothing the US, UK, NATO or EU wouldn't do if a similar excuse could be found. Likewise the constant "western" involvement in the politics and rebellions of other countries is insidious enough that I just can't back it, so to have it backfire in this manner really does feel like a step in the right direction. I understand that there's "interests" of businesses and political types to be taken into account, but for fuck's sake, there are human beings trying to live in these places that should take precedence over us getting a cheap supply of oil (to then be massively inflated in price when the consumer gets hold of it). You do have to wonder just how far back you'd need to go to try and have an un-corrupt system of governance somewhere in the world.

Old Post 03-06-14 22:50 #
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dew
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Maes said:
Well, Frau Merkel herself said that there's nothing wrong with moving or emigrating to find work, and she even brought the example of her homeland, East Germany. So that can't be used as an excuse or self-pity argument, sorry ;-)

To be perfectly honest, if Ukraine is to be the next East Germany, then they should feel lucky. The economy crumbled and the population hit rock bottom, but the amount of money that flowed eastward was ridiculous and nowaydays the region is better off than most of Europe. Ukraine will probably get something akin to the Greece deal, imo. Hey, if Germany wants to spend its austerity savings paying Ukraine's debts, who am I to criticize? :)


"Europe" also means countries like Croatia, Bulgaria , Romania, Latvia, with 100 Euro monthly salaries, massive debts, IMF intervention, mass poverty, etc.

Croatia is a true PIIGS economy, tbh. They'll somehow coast through with their power of tourist industry, heh. Latvia is tougher than it looks, that whole region is headed towards brighter days. If only the same could be said about the opressed Russian minority (!) in all three Baltic countries... but that's a story for a different time, kids! I totally agree with you about Bulgaria, but be careful about Romania. You should definitely not use them and "massive debt" in the same sentence. They actually have the lowest debt in EU, because the genius economist Ceaucescu reached zero state debt while keeping total wealth equality - nobody except him posesses anything. Their debt might be rising fast, but they have a lot of space to burn through before they catch the rest. :)


"Europe" is even considering countries such as Albania, Fyrom, Serbia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Bosnia etc. for membership. What the hell, everybody is suddenly "European"? And most importantly, is everybody equal among peers?

I have a problem with imagining Albania and Kosovo in any civilized society, but I will admit it's almost racist from me. Serbia is only logical after accepting Croatia and it is one of the major powers of Balcan. Macedonia and Bosnia don't seem very probable candidates, tbh. The countries are already devouring themselves while everyone's watching. And for fucks sake, I can't wait to accept Turkey to EU. The sooner, the better. The economic boost alone will be worth it.


The UK is a special case, and it's de-facto already opting out.

Another "can't wait". I find it funny how Britain threatens Scotland that it'd end outside of EU if it voted for independency, yet Cameron's cronies "want" to do the same thing with the entire kingdom. I also want to see the City's financial empire hit all sorts of walls when they're not in the united market. Fuck 'em.

Old Post 03-06-14 23:23 #
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Technician
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dew said:
And for fucks sake, I can't wait to accept Turkey to EU. The sooner, the better. The economic boost alone will be worth it.
Does Turkey even want to be in the EU anymore? I'm praying Turkey gets into the EU if only for the off chance it may impede recent Arabian influence.

Old Post 03-06-14 23:35 #
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dew
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Technician said:
Does Turkey even want to be in the EU anymore? I'm praying Turkey gets into the EU if only for the off chance it may impede recent Arabian influence.

Fair question, haha. The Schengen Area is a really nice prize to pine over, but Turkey is becoming influential enough to dictate their own requirements. And yes, EU can influence changes in Turkey more if it's in the house. Plus EU's push in the Muslim world might actually become noticeable with Turkey spearheading it. Just overall, I find the naysayer logic prejudiced.

Old Post 03-07-14 00:03 #
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myk
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Technician said:
Muslim countries need dictators is to suppress and extinguish extremism and basically enforce secularism onto their society.
Eradicating extremism? What entirely counterproductive nonsense! The notion also fails to account that the target to be extinguished can be the dictatorships themselves, with funneled or financed fundamentalism ("extremism") as a weapon to use. Nor does it note how wonderfully useful dictatorial regimes are as a form of oppression against impertinent masses of hippies who think they're allowed to enjoy life...

In relation to world powers and other desirable displays of supremacy, we could define dictatorships as a "split personality" phenomenon in colonized or subordinated nation states which criss-crosses the contradicting elements of sovereign defense and national repression, akin to what you may find in an aggressive person with an inferiority complex. Since they are the structures of partially broken societies, they are not obnoxious, costly or wasteful like pony-driven democracies or cuddly populisms, which insolently insist on benefiting their generally unclean and poop-colored populations in earnest!

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130219223302/mlp/images/thumb/9/98/Ms._Peachbottom_id_S3E12.png/150px-Ms._Peachbottom_id_S3E12.pnghttp://martjackstorage.blob.core.windows.net/in-resources/681a68de-dbbb-4b58-b791-628cb23647e8/Images/ProductImages/Small/Cuddly%20Bear.jpghttp://www.chefscatalog.com/blog/Media/Default/BlogPost/blog/Christmas%20Cookies/GingerbreadPeopleCookies_185911399.jpg

Fundamentalism, on the other hand, is an expansive reaction to ingrained popular trauma from threats of severe social disruption of a more visceral authoritarian nature. It tends to clash with dictatorships because it's based on traditions and doctrines adapted to tattered or nihilistic circumstances rather than a more territorial and planned organization.

While they can overlap to some degree, both can be used against each other or on factions of themselves to facilitate or inflame focal conflicts, soften targeted regions and economize world domination, much like speed runners relying on monster infighting to lower the time in their max demo attempts.


dew said:
It is terrible when major world powers hijack rightful revolutions, but surely you still understand the necessity of those. The one in France was perhaps the bloodiest, yet the most inspirational, eh?
The danger is more or less forgetting the 20th century happened and pretending to go back to the 19th. Cultural differences aside, it's more comparable to what happened in Libya recently than what occurred in France in the 18th century.


In today's (Czech) newspaper I've seen results of the first post-rev presidential poll and it's not that grim. The biggest favourite seems to be a billionaire that plays all sides, heh.
If we can trust these polls under the current conditions, at best yet another tycoon will take power, but they'll add in an even bigger public debt and will try and eat away at free healthcare and education in the middle of an international economic slowdown and amid ethnic and border tensions. Unlike various other color revolutions (East Germany, Czech Republic, Poland or Slovakia), Ukraine didn't change the way the others did last century because of its integration with Russia in the East, and neither the Russian locals nor the Russians will let go because of the type of industry developed.


His only real opponent is Klitchko and the extremist right is politically irrelevant with their candidates on the verge of obscurity (especially the loudmouth fascist Dmitro Yarosh).
Electorally, but the issue is the instability of these forces in a struggle with Russian economic weight (from Ukrainian Russians or Russians abroad), which won't just go away.


...haha. Compared to what, Africa? Anyone ablebodied, especially doctors and engineers, is fleeing Ukraine and slaving in nearby countries to send a bit of money home. The state is on the verge of bankrupcy. Even worse, Ukraine is the fastest dying nation in the world. Since the early 90's, the country lost almost 7 million people. That's absolutely not a mark of decent living standards, that's nation-wide miasma.
It shows a good level of education and professionals, and I see cultural and economic shock (with stress, depression, alcoholism, drugs and other related health issues) from certain conflicting policies introduced to replace the soviet system, which these revolts tend to deepen. The cooperation of the main industrialized areas is needed to revert these problems, but policies oriented toward Europe, the discouragement of Russian as one of the national languages, Western financial interventionism, and an institutional dependency on the IMF will discourage that.


And for fucks sake, I can't wait to accept Turkey to EU. The sooner, the better. The economic boost alone will be worth it.
In its current incarnation, the EU needs to expand due to the social deficit it creates. It's like any big company or capitalism itself. Expand or die.


Another "can't wait". I find it funny how Britain threatens Scotland that it'd end outside of EU if it voted for independency, yet Cameron's cronies "want" to do the same thing with the entire kingdom. I also want to see the City's financial empire hit all sorts of walls when they're not in the united market. Fuck 'em.
With their ties to the US, Canada, Australia, other ex colonies and Scandinavia, I don't see Britain really having a problem. It just doesn't make that much sense fully in the EU, but acts like a special link between it and the rest of the Anglosphere. Had Spain not been miserable (coming out of a degrading dictatorship) maybe it would have done something similar with Latin America, along with Portugal.

Old Post 03-07-14 00:18 #
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machoman127 said:
but, hey, I'm only a meddling American who has a ball-less Nubian prince running things here.
but hey, maybe if our parent's generation hadn't been so quick to vote in and then suck up to a brainless Texan (by way of Maine) who, being from the so-called party of smaller government, created a whole new department of the federal government that since its inception has stuck its hands into every pie it can and leeched hundreds of billions away in the process, and wanted two wars now projected to cost us SIX TRILLION DOLLARS, the latter of which was based on a repeated lie of "Saddam's workin' with those terrists, honest people, that's why we gotta go to war, and I'm definitely not keeping those UN inspectors out because I'm afraid if we do find any WMDs they'll have 'Made in the USA' stamped on the side, thanks to all that dual-use technology as well as biological and chemical weapons components we approved for sale to Saddam back during the Reagan administration because Saddam was screwin' with Iran, and we were just fine with that", and not the real reason which was Hussein threatening to trade for oil in Euros rather than USD, we might be in a slightly better position to help the Ukraine. ...Not that anything we did would actually be to 'help' the Ukraine.

But I'm getting off topic. Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled discussion!

Last edited by Necromancer-AMV on 03-07-14 at 00:56

Old Post 03-07-14 00:47 #
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dew said:

Naivete of this statement shatters my mind. You fled the poor country going westwards and left your aging relatives behind, but you believe Yanukovich with his opulent lifestyle, leeching of public funds and support of oligarchy would care about your grandma? With what money, country-grade social benefits from Tzar Putin? Then why didn't you migrate eastwards? If there's one thing for the better about this whole ordeal, it's removing Yanukovich from power.



I agree with you about Yanukovich not being the ideal type of leader that we wanted him to be. Things would've been so much better and easier if he actually had the courage to do exactly what Putin is doing right now in his place.
*sigh*

And FYI, we did manage to get my grandmother a visitor's visa back in 2009. She stayed with us in Canada for half a year and then went back home. The reasons why she went back were:
1.) because she confessed that she felt incapable of fully adapting to the new environment at such an elderly age.
2.) because she told us that she missed her friends and felt lonely during the days when all the rest of us went out and worked at jobs.
3.) because we were worried that we wouldn't have enough money to make a downpayment on a house. (At that time we were still renting an apartment the way that all immigrants start out.)

But now in 2014 and 2015, we have a big house and are looking forward to getting grandma another visa to come visit us once again, but the stupid political pressure on Ukraine from the west is not helping us to achieve that goal at all, especially since she is a citizen of Crimea who can't speak a word of Ukrainian. The new dictator in Kiev might not allow her to have a visa, apart from other things.

Honestly, we would prefer the country being split into two halves. This integrity bullshit needs to stop. The new self-appointed president has never lived in Crimea and doesn't know anything about its people, so he cannot decide what is best for them and what isn't. He should sit in Kiev and worry about economy and leave Crimea alone.

Old Post 03-07-14 01:21 #
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