This is a dangerous topic for a forum war but i cant keep it in.
This is written as 'safe' as i can to avoid unexisting inbetween the line reading which does not apply here.
People believe what they want to up to the point of not ending up in a mental institute. For some it is a great help and guidance while others could be squirming in disgust at the mere thought.
But this is wrong, so wrong it becomes dangerous. This woman visually gets confidence out of this religion but her mind is more closed than alcatras ever was, This is extemist behaviour to its most extreme.
It is things like this why many faiths are dwindling in numbers because people do not want to end up like this. Also how she talks about 'going from the U.S. to the world' could be difficult, while her beloved belief originates in rome italy, and is governed there. it comes from rome to the U.S. not the other way around.
Ugh... So sick of the fact that the "debate" is allowed to continue. Creationists are a bunch of loonies who need to be committed, and it has nothing to do with my stance on religion. Many of the world's religions accept evolution wholeheartedly - a point which further demonstrates that Creationists are fucked up in the head, because generally speaking, their arguments all tend to boil down to, "Evolution is anti-religion." Clearly if many religions and denominations accept evolution, evolution is not anti-religion, therefore Creationists have no business chiming in with their fundamentally flawed viewpoints.
And I'm sorry if I come across as harsh and intolerant, but we've got the exact same thing going with the anti-vaxxer movement. Granted, it's not a religious movement, but it's the exact same kind of argument - "We're all entitled to our opinions, regardless of what the science says." And what do we have in this country now? Children dying of preventable diseases because their parents think they're so much better than everyone else. Look, I'm all for an open exchange of ideas, but uninformed morons should never be given equal weight to their arguments when they cannot demonstrate basic critical thinking skills.
since the embedded version is small and you can't open it in fullscreen.
This is no longer true, so your point seems kind of moot.
The yt tag should also be less CPU heavy now, as I got Bloodshedder to change the forum to use the iframe-based embedding rather than the old-style flash applet embedding. This means that you can now use HTML5 playback for some significant portion of Youtube videos (makes quite a difference on video-heavy threads).
Please, these debates just make people on both sides either look like morons, pricks, jerkoffs, brainwashed fools, fucktards, and the whole lot. Basically summing down the the fact everyone who tries to debate it from either side is just another sucker for some flaming.
I'm fairly certain most of the world doesn't have this as a debate - it either knows, "knows" or doesn't think about it. Amusingly, it only takes a viewing of Jurassic Park for some people to wonder if the religious view of things is incorrect... Although the person I'm thinking of then went on to ask if dragons had ever been real too, so I imagine their education was either limited or just very pragmatic.
Lets say that god exist, which I do not belive in, but lets pretend.
What can the god do for me? Is it going to teach me magic? take me in a much better world than this one? or some equally cool stuff?
If yes, then do it. And that means to do it now, actual actions, not just promises.
If not, then I am not interested :P
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!
Belial said: That a society living in the world's most powerful country can spawn such idiots is just fucking scary.
Idiots are everywhere - but for some reason the religiously insane in the US tend to be more vocal about their insanity and unfortunately have the backing of one political party (because some political opportunists figure that officially 'supporting' these nutjobs would benefit them.)
Without that they'd just be the same noise they are elsewhere - annoying but ultimately harmless.
What's so surprising? We are a powerful and wealthy nation, and one which values freedom. Thus, idiots are afforded the luxury of being able to stand up on a soapbox and spew their idiocy. That is the trade-off of living in a nation such as ours. All you can do is work to educate the populace in the hopes that more people will be able to see through the bullshit, at which point these superstitious clowns will be reduced to a minority with little power to influence the direction of our country.
And don't misunderstand, I'm really not trying to attack religion on the whole here, I think religion has done some wonderful things. I personally don't subscribe to any religious views, but I don't think its inherently bad - just that, by its very nature, you can use religion to make good people do evil things and make intelligent people believe stupid things. I'm concerned about the amount of control religion allows for, and how easily that control can be abused, is all. And I think creationism is a perfect example of people using religion to manipulate and control - planting the seeds of doubt to convince people that all science is wrong, and in fact, evil.
I had a very religious gf that believed in creationism that put a whole new spin on evolution for me. She said we didn't evolve from monkeys, the devolved from us, like mutants or as she put it 'retards.' She was fine with saying monkeys are our cousins, but they came from us.
Then I look at baboons and I think shit those fuckers came from wolves.
And as a side note, Young Earth Creationism is fairly retarded.
But either way, the aliens more or less came down, butt fucked monkeys, and then humans came along. The aliens slapped each other on their dongs, called it a day, and left the planet to buttfuck some other alien primates.
Young Earth creationism is very, very odd. On the one hand it's full retard, straight up denial of the facts and actively harmful to scientific progress, as it teaches people lies. On the other hand, in a way I sort of respect creationists like those for at least having the courage of their convictions to stand by what they claim is true. There's something a bit sad about modern religious folk who will bend over backwards to simultaneously accept both scientific concepts and traditional religious beliefs in some extraordinary feat of cognitive dissonance.
There are lots of people - both religious and nonreligious - who seem desperate to cling to the idea that there is no conflict between religion and science, that they're somehow separate domains and complementary to each other. The sad fact is, that just isn't true: religious texts like the Bible make claims about the universe, usually portrayed as factual, that simply aren't substantiated by modern science. Religious believers who cling to this kind of philosophy rely on an ever-receding "god of the gaps" as a rationalization, selectively ignoring the traditional parts of their religious belief that don't fit. It's just a way of moving the goalposts.
I feel a similar way about apologists like, for example, William Lane Craig, who participates in prominent debates, yet outright admits that his "belief in God is not based on these arguments" - ie. he constructs logical arguments that he uses to debate with in a secular fashion, but admits it's ultimately all a bunch of talk that's irrelevant to him anyway. Why bother then? It seems like intellectual dishonesty. At least the brain-achingly stupid presuppositional apologetics are trying to form something that attempts to be internally consistent.
Well heck, I'll defend traditional religious beliefs as long as they don't shit all over science. May seem odd for an atheist such as myself to make such a claim, but I have my reasons. I have seen that religious beliefs can be beneficial, even if they are false. Heck, beliefs of any kind can have that effect. For instance, if you believe that boys are better than girls at math and science, and you're a girl, you'll do more poorly on math and science tests than boys, regardless of your actual abilities (this can be demonstrated because convincing girls that such beliefs are a load of bs results in improved test scores). That's probably a negative example, but it demonstrates the power beliefs have over the mind. That power can also be used for good, too.
So that's my stance - I have no personal interest in religion, but as long as it's used to bring out the best in us, I have no problem with it, either. And in fact, that ability to bring out the best of us, in a way, kinda means that on some level, it is real.
geekmarine said: Well heck, I'll defend traditional religious beliefs as long as they don't shit all over science.
If it's people keeping to themselves and practicing a religion that brings them some kind of peace or meaning in life their fair enough. It's when that kind of belief comes into the political or public sphere that it gets so ugly and objectionable: whether it's evangelists threatening people with hell or people trying to force creationism into school curriculums. The problem is that it seems very difficult to separate the two: these kinds of beliefs always seem to end up seeking political influence and power to promote themselves further. Individuals can be fairly reasonable but there will always be some who seek to politicise it.
That's probably a negative example, but it demonstrates the power beliefs have over the mind. That power can also be used for good, too.
I agree with this, but disagree that it is always a positive influence in this regard, or that religion necessarily brings out the good in people. Just to give a simple example: the Catholic church preaches some pretty extreme opinions about sex, but nowadays it's hard to see instilling that kind of sexual repression as a healthy thing. People are often so keen to see the good side of religion that they'll ignore the bad sides that it often teaches - like homophobia or closed-mindedness for example.
The sad fact is, that just isn't true: religious texts like the Bible make claims about the universe, usually portrayed as factual, that simply aren't substantiated by modern science.
Here I thought it was all parables and metaphors. But what do I know, I've only lived in a Catholic family for half of my childhood, whereas you have all the experience and wisdom accumulated from skimming through one wikipedia article.
While on the topic on cognitive dissonances, funny how when religious people change their beliefs over time it's "moving the goalposts", whereas when scientists do the same it's "progress". Modern physicists, worst turncoats ever man.