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hardcore_gamer
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The Wii U appears to be doing horrible and there is talk on the internet from a number of sites that Nintendo should just stop making conoles and only make games. I for one actually kind of agree.

Just think about it, what is it about Nintendo that makes them great? Because it sure as hell aren't the consoles. Now, I know that people have A LOT of fond memories about nintendo. But almost all of those memories at least for me come from the fun GAMES they made and not the actual consoles. I suppose the SNES and to a lesser degree the NES were very good consoles, but for the most part Nintendo consoles (Gameboy doesn't count since it is not a console) have been pieces of shit. The N64 had one of the worst controllers ever to grace a major game console. The Gamecube was a gloryfied purple lunchbox with a wierd controller (some say its actually great, but I don't agree. Though I admit this one is fairly subjective), the Wii was basically just one big gimick that became extremely popular because it appealed to lots of casual gamers, and now we have the Wii U which is like the Wii just more expensive and with an even more stupid controller.

So, do you think Nintendo will go the way of Sega? Or perhaps more importantly, do you think it SHOULD go the way of Sega?

Old Post 05-12-14 23:17 #
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Inkie
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Their portable stuff is still pretty great.

The only controler I detest is the N64 one. Made for people with 3 hands for some reason.

Old Post 05-12-14 23:23 #
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Mr. Freeze
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No and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Old Post 05-12-14 23:28 #
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FireFish
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i absolutely liked the snes as a kid, and the gamecube could do more then the ps2 graphics wise, but the ps2 remained one hardcore piece of gaming console.

Nintendo just needs to get their ideas together and seriously Drop the attempts to try and modernize and revolutionize consoles. If they would just make an actual console with a good controller instead of motion based tablet like interfaces (u) and television zappers (wii) they might have a chance again.

It is a shame because they have these odd fun non super violent games capable of attracting all ages possible.

side note ;
i just find their modern handhelds horrible contraptions to hold.

Old Post 05-12-14 23:29 #
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geo
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They're only one Pokemon U game away from selling more Wii Us.

I think Japan has too high of hopes in general. Capcom, Square Enix, Nintendo all think they'll sell 100 million games. Wii U needs to open up the E shop to shitty mobile phone and tablet games to start making 30% off sales of Candy Crush, and Simpson's extras just like the iStore, Google Play and Steam. That's money without having to do anything.

Instead Nintendo gears itself to party games that you get 4 people to play in 1 living room. Catch is that's 1 Wii U for 4 people instead of making online games where its 4 consoles sold.

To top that off, I'm not sure people are even ready for the next gen of game systems.

Pokemon X/Y has sold 10 million now at $30 - $40? Maybe Nintendo only makes $15 on that. Somehow $15,000,000 isn't enough to keep a company a float?

Seems like all Wii U games sell around 1 million copies if that. Now that's worrisome. The 3DS games sell more copies, but the 3DS has a wider user base.

Nintendo is starting to get into those damn figurines like Disney and Skylanders is it? While the plastic figurines are wildly successful and collectable, how is manufacturing plastic collectable toys cost effective?

Maybe Nintendo is bragging about how awful they are to tank their stock so they can buy it all back. Lolz.

Old Post 05-12-14 23:41 #
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Membrain
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geo said:
Instead Nintendo gears itself to party games that you get 4 people to play in 1 living room. Catch is that's 1 Wii U for 4 people instead of making online games where its 4 consoles sold.



I'm not sure about where I stand with Nintendo. While I own all their consoles, I buy them second-hand because I just can't afford them at full price. On the other hand, they have the best selection of games for sitting in the living room with my friends and just playing something together. I've never been good with playing over the internet, especially on a console, but couch gaming is a great multiplayer experience for me.

Also, needing a console per player is a borderline scam, though it's great from a business perspective and all.

Old Post 05-12-14 23:48 #
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yakfak
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doubt i'll ever own another Nintendo family console. but their handheld things are a dream, so many decent strategy and puzzle games on the DS series that it's a success in my eyes

Old Post 05-13-14 00:04 #
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Sodaholic
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Will they? I can't predict the future, so I won't pretend to be able to. Should they? Yes, if they are unable to get their shit together with the hardware.

I think Nintendo should do this:
1. Release a lower-cost option of the Wii U with just the Pro Controller instead of the Gamepad.
2. Make a version of the Pro Controller with a headset jack, maybe analogue triggers, too. Obviously, keep software compatibility for games designed for digital triggers.
3. Refocus the Gamepad as an accessory and not the main control method. It's expensive and doesn't do a whole lot for game design. I realize that much software already tries to make heavy use of it, but it's not like Nintendo hasn't released games that require a special add-on before (ROB, Zapper, Super Scope, etc.). For future 1st party titles, don't require or heavily lean on the Gamepad for games that could easily do without.
4. Actually advertise for once! What happened to their marketing department? They're barely advertising at all, and when they do, the message is pretty lame (i.e. that one TV ad with the kids trying to convince their parents to get one). They used to aggressively advertise, remember the torrent of Wii ads circa 2006?
5. Embrace mobile gaming. For future handhelds, either ditch the prospect entirely and make games for 3rd party smartphones, or go in a new direction and make their handhelds smartphone hybrids. In the meantime, make decent games for 3rd party mobile, and if touch controls are an issue, don't use it as an excuse to avoid the market and instead have support for Bluetooth controllers, even make their own Bluetooth controllers.

In any case, the management needs to be wiped clean and replaced with fresh blood. The idiots currently in charge are completely out of touch with the current market and refuse to listen to suggestions/demands for obvious improvements. They need to flow with and take advantage of the current tide, not work against it no matter how clear that it's damaging. They need to realize it's not 1994 anymore, it's 2014.

Old Post 05-13-14 00:53 #
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FireFish
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Sodaholic said:
5. or go in a new direction and make their handhelds smartphone hybrids.



this is something i would never even want to see let alone buy.
If i want cellphone games i will use my cellphone.

from nintendo and console or handheld companies i expect specialized handhelds and not yet another phone on a severely bloated and saturated market.

this shows how difficult this market has become.

Old Post 05-13-14 01:34 #
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DoOmEr4LiFe
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hardcore_gamer said:
the Wii was basically just one big gimick that became extremely popular because it appealed to lots of casual gamers, and now we have the Wii U which is like the Wii just more expensive and with an even more stupid controller.


I disagree with everything you said except this. If Nintendo wants to reclaim the top spot of console gaming, it needs to put down the stupid motion gaming and release a straight up controller + game console. If they want to include motion gaming as an option, that's fine but to base your entire console design around it, and then do it a second time was just boneheaded.

Old Post 05-13-14 01:39 #
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Aliotroph?
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Nintendo aggressively promotes a walled-garden system with strict censorship. They can all rot in hell regardless of how good their games are.

That said, the various incarnations of the DS are doing so well, I don't see the Wii-U killing them. I do also think there's a solid niche for motion gaming (or whatever you call it), but the first couple of generations of it on any platform will be severely handicapped between a lack of understanding/acceptance and crude software.

Old Post 05-13-14 01:53 #
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Technician
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No, not this console. But they could possibly crash if they continue to release lukewarm systems. Nintendo has been behind on technology since the N64 but their IPs and exclusives always filled the gaps.

The reason I never got a Wii is because I just want to sit down, relax and play a game. I don't want to stand up let alone wave my arms around. I'm tired from work and don't care to exercise just to make Mario do stuff.

I have no idea what the Wii U provides, but just from the name alone it makes me think it's just a slightly beefed-up Wii with a peripheral.

Old Post 05-13-14 01:56 #
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Inkie
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geo said:
They're only one Pokemon U game away from selling more Wii Us.


That reminds me, the next smash bros is around the corner.

Old Post 05-13-14 02:15 #
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Blzut3
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I'm going to sound like a Nintendo fan boy, but here it goes... :P

There's nothing in particular wrong with the Wii U, although it probably could have used slightly better specs. I do have to agree though that making the tablet the main controller was a bad move. At first I thought it was a good idea (the cost factor is fairly minimal), but then I saw a video where someone pointed out that it's likely the number one reason third parties are not porting to the system. Even though the Wii U has the pro controller for such games, the fact that the tablet is the primary controller out of box highly encourages doing something with it.

The other thing Nintendo needs to do is stop fearing homebrew so much and make their backwards compatibility suck less. Seriously, there's no reason they couldn't make the Wii U not have a special Wii mode and play Gamecube games, but they're set on making sure the hardware is strictly limited in backwards compatibility. They probably could even allow games to run in higher resolutions if they would just run them under a compatibility layer.

But besides that the thing two things holding the Wii U back is the lack of proper advertising (they should have picked a more distinctive name) and the game library isn't quite there yet. I think Nintendo is far from failing with the system regardless, but it's going to be in last place. One thing I really like about the Wii U is that it still has the ability to use component cables (component is nearly identical in quality to HDMI, there's just no HDCP so Sony and Microsoft want nothing to do with it).

Technician said:
Nintendo has been behind on technology since the N64

Besides the limited ROM space, the N64 was the most powerful system of that generation. Although it also had limited texture cache crippling the performance.

While it wasn't you that said it, I want to mention that I think the N64 controller is unfairly criticised by some. It's not a three handed controller, it's designed to be used in either analog or digital mode. Usuaully the people that complain about it think they're supposed to stretch their hand across the controller to reach the analog stick, but no game I've played expects that. Either use d-pad+L or analog+Z with the left hand. The playstation still had the best controller that generation though, but only after the dual shock came out.

Going further on a tangent, I guess I should mention that the N64 was the most popular system in my area. I know like two people who had a playstation, but everyone else in my neighborhood was N64.

Technician said:
The reason I never got a Wii is because I just want to sit down, relax and play a game. I don't want to stand up let alone wave my arms around. I'm tired from work and don't care to exercise just to make Mario do stuff.

I don't know what games you were playing, but most of the Wii games I have use only the pointing capabilities and the occasional shake. Works just fine from the couch.

Old Post 05-13-14 02:18 #
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geekmarine
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Making the tablet the primary controller was a big mistake. It's an interesting idea in concept, but no matter what Nintendo does, it's gonna turn people off to the Wii U and make them not take it seriously as a console. Even a killer app couldn't turn people on to the notion of such a radical shift in controller design.

Thing is, I've supported some other of Nintendo's questionable choices. I liked the N64 controller. I honestly have a hard time playing N64 games with anything else. The Gamecube's primary fault was lack of 3rd party support, in my opinion, and aside from that, I liked it much better than the PS2 or Xbox (I actually liked the Gamecube controller, too). As for the Wii, honestly, it worked great for FPS games - shame there was such a limited selection.

I have to say though, I'd hate to see the end of Nintendo as a hardware company.

Old Post 05-13-14 02:35 #
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Clonehunter
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Inkie said:
Their portable stuff is still pretty great.

The only controler I detest is the N64 one. Made for people with 3 hands for some reason.



http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120722033608/wolfenstein/images/d/d5/Animated_Mutant.gif

Old Post 05-13-14 03:08 #
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Sodaholic
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FireFish said:
this is something i would never even want to see let alone buy.
If i want cellphone games i will use my cellphone.

from nintendo and console or handheld companies i expect specialized handhelds and not yet another phone on a severely bloated and saturated market.

this shows how difficult this market has become.

I don't get it. I don't understand the general opposition to gaming on mobile hardware. Does the current selection of games generally suck? Yes. Do touchscreen controls suck for anything that wasn't already designed for a point-and-click interface? Yes. Does that mean the whole prospect sucks? Absolutely not. Android phone hardware is just like any other hardware, it can run games with 6th to 7th console generation quality. The advantage is that it's lightweight, uses little battery power, and is affordable. There is zero reason such hardware could not work well for a console-in-your-pocket like setup.

People these days want to be able to make and receive calls anywhere, they want to send and receive email or SMS messages anywhere, they want to browse the internet anywhere, and they want to play their games anywhere. People don't want to carry around two devices to communicate and to play real games when the former device is perfectly capable of the latter.

I think the market is ripe for a return of N-Gage like stuff. The only reason the N-Gage failed is because the market and the technology wasn't ready. Now we have a bustling, active software market, and widely adopted, standardized and very capable hardware. We're already half-way there, as far as making the gaming portion worthwhile. There are already Bluetooth controllers, you can already hook many phones up to a TV. Now we just need real games and not Cut The Rope or whatever.

My question is this: why not? Why not have smartphones geared toward gamers with proper controls already built in? Why not develop and port real games for these devices? FireFish (and anyone else), what is the actual difference between an Android phone and a DS, and why could the former not fully fulfill the functions of the former?


Aliotroph? said:
Nintendo aggressively promotes a walled-garden system with strict censorship. They can all rot in hell regardless of how good their games are.
I generally agree. Frankly, I wouldn't mind at all if they became a 3rd party dev/publisher, that would mean they'd have less of that kind of control.


Blzut3 said:
Seriously, there's no reason they couldn't make the Wii U not have a special Wii mode and play Gamecube games, but they're set on making sure the hardware is strictly limited in backwards compatibility. They probably could even allow games to run in higher resolutions if they would just run them under a compatibility layer.
AFAIK, there's already such a thing for Wii games. Given that the Wii was mostly just a Gamecube under the hood, they have no excuse not to support backwards compatibility of Gamecube games.


Blzut3 said:
One thing I really like about the Wii U is that it still has the ability to use component cables (component is nearly identical in quality to HDMI, there's just no HDCP so Sony and Microsoft want nothing to do with it).
That's a definite plus. That being said, RGB is still better than YUV, and digital is better yet. Ideally, there should be a picture with maximum quality without any form of DRM.


Blzut3 said:
I don't know what games you were playing, but most of the Wii games I have use only the pointing capabilities and the occasional shake. Works just fine from the couch.
Which is further proof of just how pointless the extremely simplistic "motion" controls really were.


geekmarine said:
As for the Wii, honestly, it worked great for FPS games - shame there was such a limited selection.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, Metroid Prime 3 was merely playable, and Red Steel 1 was a disaster. For quick aiming, the Wiimote was better than an analog stick, but for turning, I always found it to be a pain.

Old Post 05-13-14 03:53 #
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Holering
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Don't know. Personally hope Nintendo rules in their own standing. It's also interesting to note how Nintendo and John Carmack have very similar innovations that don't suck. Nintendo had the Virtual Boy and Carmack, even back then was thinking of virtual reality (doesn't Doom have something to do with that?); and now we got things like Occulus Rift.

Nintendo brought the 3DS which was way cool without 3D glasses, the Wii controllers blew away everything else, and now you can play Wii U games in a totally different room without a TV. With Nintendo, you don't have a clue what they'll do with hardware, and that's exactly why they should stay in the hardware business. Really Really hope to see a Metroid Prime like title with Virtual Headset or similar (Trent Reznor would probably say the same thing, and whoever fired him from doing Doom 3 sounds can suck assholes!)...

BTW is Carmack racist against Japanese?

Old Post 05-13-14 04:14 #
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RUSH
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Holering said:
It's also interesting to note how Nintendo and John Carmack have very similar innovations that don't suck. Nintendo had the Virtual Boy.



Wait, are you seriously suggesting that the Virtual Boy was GOOD? My God...

Old Post 05-13-14 04:21 #
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Ralphis
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Wii U's biggest failure is its marketing

Old Post 05-13-14 04:25 #
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Blzut3
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Oh forgot to mention. If Nintendo wants to really sell Wii Us, they need to release an add on to play DS/DSi/3DS games on the TV. It seems like an obvious use for the tablet controller.

Sodaholic said:
That's a definite plus. That being said, RGB is still better than YUV, and digital is better yet. Ideally, there should be a picture with maximum quality without any form of DRM.

I'm not sure it's even physically possible for a human to see the quality difference between YPbPr and HDMI in typical TV usage (provided low interference and a display with a halfway decent ADC). Granted it would be nice to use a digital signal, but that's the nerd in all of us speaking. According to the people behind the 3DFury, component has enough bandwidth to output 1080p at 72fps.

Sodaholic said:
Which is further proof of just how pointless the extremely simplistic "motion" controls really were.

While the motion controls were simplistic, I don't think it really says anything about the controls being pointless. However, it does show that it's not a good idea to shoehorn a gimmick into games, so while there are some games that benefit greatly from motion and touch controls, others just have no need for them. Both the DS and Wii suffered from gimmicky controls initially until developers realized they didn't need to use them excessively. At least for the DS, it seems most people agree the touch screen is a good idea.

Old Post 05-13-14 04:48 #
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Sodaholic
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Holering said:
Trent Reznor would probably say the same thing, and whoever fired him from doing Doom 3 sounds can suck assholes!
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he left voluntarily and wasn't forced off the project, though there could have been some tensions. Does anyone know if any detailed information about how and why Trent left the project publicly available? Because I haven't seen any.

Holering said:
BTW is Carmack racist against Japanese?
I don't know if his wife is specifically Japanese, but I do know she's ethnically Asian, so I doubt Carmack is racist toward Asians. Besides, he's an ultra-rationalist, I doubt he's racist at all.



Blzut3 said:
Oh forgot to mention. If Nintendo wants to really sell Wii Us, they need to release an add on to play DS/DSi/3DS games on the TV. It seems like an obvious use for the tablet controller.
Weren't Nintendo talking about doing this a while back?

Blzut3 said:
I'm not sure it's even physically possible for a human to see the quality difference between YPbPr and HDMI in typical TV usage (provided low interference and a display with a halfway decent ADC).
Perhaps not on a consumer TV, but I'd imagine it's at least slightly noticeable on a high-end PC monitor. Of course, such a setup would only be used by enthusiasts.

Blzut3 said:
At least for the DS, it seems most people agree the touch screen is a good idea.
My point about touch screens had more to do with smartphone games. I'm not knocking touchscreen controls, just saying that they're not ideal for many traditional video games. I think it's important to note that the DS used the touchscreen as a secondary control, and still had traditional controls for when you need them.

Old Post 05-13-14 05:14 #
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Mr. Freeze
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The WiiU's problems are being compounded Nintendo's arrogant leadership.

First, the name sucks. Literally everyone outside my gaming social circle thought it was an add-on for the Wii. Going into Fucking Gamestop and seeing posters explaining the difference didn't help.

Second, third party devs don't want to work with an underpowered system. The WiiU is behind both PS4 and XBone (which are not cutting edge themselves), so why would Joe Blow from Idaho want to be even *more* constrained by system specs?

Another thing with third-party devs is their unwillingness to support a console where everyone mostly buy Nintendo exclusives anyway. The system doesn't have a lot of exclusives because it's a huge risk to sell on it ("Why make billions when we can make millions?" comes to mind).

Add to that the tablet gimmick (terrible idea), rushed launch, and the WiiU is all but dead already. Some people (read: idiots) say that Super Smash Brothers / Mario Kart / whatever will "Save the WiiU" but people aren't going to put up a $300 paywall just to play Mario Kart. Smash Brothers probably, but not on the scale people anticipate.

Old Post 05-13-14 14:48 #
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Waffenak
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I miss times when there were many consoles on market now its basically only 2. In the 90's there were same time on the market sega megardrive, snes, panasonic 3do, atari jaguar, cd-i ( console barely), amiga cd32 and neo geo aes. Later it was saturn, ps1 and n64 and so on. It narrowed time.

And why Nintendo had to make those fragile cardboard boxes up till n64 time? Did they save some money with that move? As a retro game collector finding those old cardboard boxes in good condition is hard as hell. Sega had plastic vhs-type cases already in the 80's with master system

Last edited by Waffenak on 05-13-14 at 15:34

Old Post 05-13-14 15:28 #
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Maes
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hardcore_gamer said:
Gameboy doesn't count since it is not a console


You lost me there, buddy.

However, Nintendo always had something special going on for each one of its consoles: in general, they were quite "dirty" designs, hardware-wise, which however gave them incredible flexibility and longevity. Compare e.g. the NES with the Sega Master System: the latter is a quite "clean" Z80-based design with nothing too exceptional about it, the NES runs on a hacked 6502 (itself a very hackish CPU) and a bunch of equally hacky PPU, SPU, etc.

The SNES vs the Genesis: again, the Genesis was a quite conventional contemporary design, with a 68000 and a Z80, while the SNES used a CPU with a twist and tons of hardware tricks. Despite that, and unlike e.g. the Jaguar, it was a success.

Of course after the Playstation, the game changed quite radically, but that didn't stop Nintendo from playing on novelty (e.g. Wii-mote, 3DS screen etc.).

Old Post 05-13-14 16:55 #
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I insist that the Mega Drive/Genesis was a better console than the SNES. Sample based audio may be "better," but the way the SPC handled it was kinda lame, everything sounded muffled. It was harder to screw the sound up on a SNES game, but if you used the Yamaha FM well enough, it was a very crisp and dynamic sound.

I think Gunstar Heroes is a pretty good example of what the Mega Drive did better. The gameplay was frantic and packed with so much stuff going on at once, and the music was excellent.

Old Post 05-13-14 18:01 #
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Waffenak
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Earlier mega drive/genesis models had better build quality and chips like yamaha fm. Same with sega saturn also. Shame that they have to downgrade consoles to cut down production cost. First 60gb ps3 had extra ports and backward compatibility with ps1 and ps2 games which later models didnt have.

Old Post 05-13-14 18:14 #
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Quasar
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Regarding Trent Reznor, I'm under the impression that his agent tried to pull one of those "we want more money for this work" things that is all the rage in the music industry, and id balked.

Old Post 05-13-14 18:24 #
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Cacatou
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Ralphis said:
Wii U's biggest failure is its marketing


I disagree. Wii U's biggest failure is that it sounds like an ambulance siren. Also I always did prefer the Genesis to the SNES as well probably due to more memories.

Old Post 05-13-14 21:03 #
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geo
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Quasar said:
Regarding Trent Reznor, I'm under the impression that his agent tried to pull one of those "we want more money for this work" things that is all the rage in the music industry, and id balked.


Yeah I've heard bad things about John Malm Jr. But I don't think that's his manager anymore. Plus Trent is a guy that has released 2 or 3 albums for free on the net and still made it available to purchase in stores. He's a guy that already has enough money.

Old Post 05-13-14 23:03 #
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