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dg93

NC grandfather fires back at trio in attempted rape of teen granddaughter

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You're entitled to your opinion, though I don't agree with it at all. And honestly, it wouldn't make a difference if they were "mentally unstable" or not. I would still use whatever means necessary to protect myself, my family, and my private property from a hostile home intruder.

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I have no problem using a gun for self-defense if someone broke into your house. I want to make that clear, I wasn't against that aspect of it, I'm just against perpetuating the myth that we're all victims of these roving gangs of "thugs" out there looking to hurt and maim and steal from whoever they want whenever they want. You hear people talk about it and it's ridiculous. There's a world of difference between random crazy person breaking into your house, which I don't deny does happen, and this notion of roving bands of desperados. People buy into the myth, though, and this leads to all kinds of undo panic, absurd laws being passed, etc. I mean, this is precisely the kind of mentality that allowed "stop and frisk" to become a thing in New York.

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geekmarine said:

I have no problem using a gun for self-defense if someone broke into your house. I want to make that clear, I wasn't against that aspect of it, I'm just against perpetuating the myth that we're all victims of these roving gangs of "thugs" out there looking to hurt and maim and steal from whoever they want whenever they want.


I'm glad we are on the same page with the self defense topic. I just strongly believe that their actions were based on "thug mentality" not "mental disorder."

The article I posted even stated that the three armed intruders "stormed into the house and demanded money." I personally don't see how any of their actions can be directly attributed to a mental disorder.

geekmarine said:

There's a world of difference between random crazy person breaking into your house, which I don't deny does happen, and this notion of roving bands of desperados. People buy into the myth, though, and this leads to all kinds of undo panic, absurd laws being passed, etc. I mean, this is precisely the kind of mentality that allowed "stop and frisk" to become a thing in New York.


I partially agree with this. For one thing, the stop and frisk is something I don't entirely approach of in NYC. I'm from that area so I know all about it.

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the_miano said:

The article I posted even stated that the three armed intruders "stormed into the house and demanded money." I personally don't see how any of their actions can be directly attributed to a mental disorder.

The article also mentions a safe, so the intruders must have had reason to believe the old guy had cash or valuables on the premises. The way I read it, that home invasion was a hastily organised armed robbery that went wrong, so pardon me while I drop-kick geekmarine's mental disorder argument out the nearest window.

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A hastily organized armed robbery sounds like mental illness to me. I don't know many normal people who decide to engage in armed robbery on the spur of the moment. You can't just say, "Oh they're normal people who happen to be criminals," because those aren't the actions of a rational person, ignoring the fact that committing crimes in and of itself is not a rational action. Legitimate criminals would've planned that out better, not just barge in on a whim. Poor impulse control, however, is a hallmark of many different mental illnesses, and the fact that poor impulse control played such a big role in this suggests to me that these guys weren't right in the head.

I'm not saying mental illness should be a "get out of jail free" card or anything like that, just pointing out the fact that poor impulse control seems to be a motivating factor here, so something must not have been right with them in the head to lead them to attempt this. I'm sure if you examined their lives, there's probably a history of poor impulse control, reckless behavior, etc.

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geekmarine said:

I have no problem using a gun for self-defense if someone broke into your house. I want to make that clear, I wasn't against that aspect of it, I'm just against perpetuating the myth that we're all victims of these roving gangs of "thugs" out there looking to hurt and maim and steal from whoever they want whenever they want. You hear people talk about it and it's ridiculous. There's a world of difference between random crazy person breaking into your house, which I don't deny does happen, and this notion of roving bands of desperados.


Spend some time in and around Memphis, TN and the areas around Pigeon Town, Louisiana. I lived in both areas for a couple years and I can say it change my outlook on such things. While things as armed robberies and home invasions where not as common as the mainstream media would lead you to believe, they are common enough that there are rules you have to live by in order to keep you and yours from looking like a target.

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geekmarine said:

I'm not saying mental illness should be a "get out of jail free" card or anything like that, just pointing out the fact that poor impulse control seems to be a motivating factor here, so something must not have been right with them in the head to lead them to attempt this. I'm sure if you examined their lives, there's probably a history of poor impulse control, reckless behavior, etc.


I now see what you mean especially on poor impulse control, though I don't believe it should be a "get out of jail free" card, so I agree with you on that.

Spend some time in and around Memphis, TN and the areas around Pigeon Town, Louisiana. I lived in both areas for a couple years and I can say it change my outlook on such things. While things as armed robberies and home invasions where not as common as the mainstream media would lead you to believe, they are common enough that there are rules you have to live by in order to keep you and yours from looking like a target.Satyr000 said:


I bet there is a shit load of crime in those regions. The mainstream media won't report every incident.



Shit like this happens a lot in NJ and throughout the country.

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geekmarine said:

I don't know many normal people who decide to engage in armed robbery on the spur of the moment.

I don't know any, but then I've probably had a sheltered upbringing. :P

Jokes aside - Lumberton is the most dangerous city in North Carolina, with a violent crime rate that's 5 times the national average. Having about 30% of the population living below the poverty line would be contributing to the problem, with fewer people being able to afford the luxury of being scrupulously honest and law-abiding.

You can't just say, "Oh they're normal people who happen to be criminals," because those aren't the actions of a rational person, ignoring the fact that committing crimes in and of itself is not a rational action. Legitimate criminals would've planned that out better, not just barge in on a whim. Poor impulse control, however, is a hallmark of many different mental illnesses, and the fact that poor impulse control played such a big role in this suggests to me that these guys weren't right in the head.

"Normal" people are surprisingly adept at rationalizing unacceptable behavior. In the case of this luckless trio it was probably something along the lines of unemployment + criminal record + impatient landlord/creditors = needs money fast to avoid being made homeless or worse. I suspect they already knew there was a safe on the premises and thought it would be an easy job, they just lacked the professionalism of "legitimate" criminals.

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What irritates me is that is this had happened in Greece, it would have probably ended up with the grandfather being badly beaten and/or killed (even if the thugs probably wouldn't have access to firearms, unless they were Albanians, those ALWAYS "work" with AK-47s taken from the endless supply of Enver Hoxha's looted bunkers), the daughter certainly gang-raped and beaten.

And just like pouring salt into an open wound, a significant portion of certain "liberal-multicultural-leftists" would actually unconditionally defend the trio, calling them "working-class proletarian multiethnic brothers", "victims of capitalist exploitation and imperialist wars" etc. etc. while anyone criticising them would be labelled a "fascist".

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I'm sure as hell glad I don't live in shitty Greece. There was a case here in the Czech Republic in which a gang of fake policemen broke into a businessman's house and threatened his entire family. A fight broke out and one of the invaders died, I think he got a heart attack after the businessman managed to subdue him. All the shitheads were given hard time and the businessman walked free. If Greece is truly anything like Maes describes it, it's the stupidest country in Europe.

edit: missed a word

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the_miano said:

video



What a coward. Incidents like this make it difficult for me to accept what people on the left propose for gun-control. I truly believe that piece of dog shit that beat that woman would think twice if he suspected the owners might have a firearm in the house. Hopefully the next time he decides to do this, he is greeted with a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the stomach.

I live in NJ, there are certainly home invaders like this. It has happened to people in my family, but not to that extent. My Grandfather, actually beat the shit out of this one guy. But the guy eventually pushed my grandfather down, and he ran out the house. Another time, it almost happened to my mother while she was home taking care of my brother and sister who were infants. But she managed to slam the door on the guy's hand, pinning him there. Eventually a swarm of police cars showed up, and arrested him.

dew said:

I'm sure as hell glad I don't live in shitty Greece. There was a case here in the Czech Republic in which a gang of fake policemen broke into a businessman's house and threatened his entire family. A fight broke out and one of the invaders died, I think he got a heart attack after the businessman managed to subdue him. All the shitheads were given hard time and the businessman walked free. If Greece is truly anything like Maes describes it, it's the stupidest country in Europe.

edit: missed a word


Actually, there are liberal-multicultural leftists like Maes describes right here in the USA too. I don't think that its exclusive to just Greece. There are people on both sides of the political spectrum that take things to absurd extremes, in all parts of the world. I'm sure Czech Republic has its fair share.

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dew said:

If Greece is truly anything like Maes describes it, it's the stupidest country in Europe.


That's what happens when the most anti-national, subversive, corrupt and stupid elements are allowed to prosper in the name of some nondescript, hazy "left culture", which is basically a sickeningly potpourri of pseudo-intellectuals, various LGBT deviants, nanny-staters, syndicalists, lobbyists, PC advocates, misguided activists, wannabe "ethnic" stoners, hooligans, eternal "students", anti-national elements etc.

How those can coexists, despite some being apparently diametrical opposites (e.g. anti-national elements with state-party-appointed syndicalists) is one of the greatest paradoxes, yet they are pervasive.

There's even a term for that: "θολοκουλτούρα" (tholokoultoura, literally "hazy culture" or "hazy intellectualism", and for its members: "θολοκουλτουριάριδες" (tholokoultouriarides, "hazy intellectuals").

What I described is a typical reaction of this revolting riff-raff. To understand how the "hazy intellectual" lobby may materialize, consider the sickening story of the Monster of Paros.

Tons of WTF there. 2 years until the trial. The scum was illegally employed by a local hotel owner, and he used every possible excuse and trick to delay and misdirect justice and get away scot-free.

Those tricks included: lying about his nationality, lying about his age (tried to pass as under 18 yo, and so tried as "underage" for a more lenient verdict etc.). But who taught him those legal tricks? You bet it..a "hazy intelectual" lawyer specialized in this sort of thing, and obviously very well funded. It's shit like that which caused a lot of my nationals to vote for "Golden Dawn".

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To those that sympathize with the criminals: I do too, in a sense. I can't imagine what lifestyle leads to a criminal life, but I can imagine going down the wrong path because it--through whatever trauma and ugliness you experienced growing up--can be easily rationalized. It's severe cognitive dissonance. It allows you to see yourself as above the law or having no regard for safety. So yeah, it's a problem that we live in a world where people who have fallen pray to such extreme deviance can potentially be killed or injured in a heartbeat as a consequence. That's a risk I think we need to embrace, because this is, to me, the proper use of a firearm.

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Well, that's what happens when you are not talented enough to record a hip-hop album, or at least "multiethnic" enough to have half a dozen of LGBT-oriented "human rights" organizations compete over who'll defend you first. Then you're just another poor nigger thug.

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Maes said:

And just like pouring salt into an open wound, a significant portion of certain "liberal-multicultural-leftists" would actually unconditionally defend the trio, calling them "working-class proletarian multiethnic brothers", "victims of capitalist exploitation and imperialist wars" etc. etc. while anyone criticising them would be labelled a "fascist".


That is one of my biggest reasons why I highly dislike left wing liberals. Their fucking victim mentality is what pisses me off.

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Kontra Kommando said:

What a coward. Incidents like this make it difficult for me to accept what people on the left propose for gun-control. I truly believe that piece of dog shit that beat that woman would think twice if he suspected the owners might have a firearm in the house. Hopefully the next time he decides to do this, he is greeted with a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the stomach.


I agree, a 12-gauge shotgun is one of the best home defense firearms to have in my opinion. Just the sound of it (especially in close quarters) is enough to scare the living shit out of a home intruder. Though, a 12-gauge is not for everybody. If you are a small framed person, a 12-gauge might be a but too powerful for you. A .22 pistol or a 9mm would be adequate to use. Even an AR-15 is a great choice too because it's light weight and has little to no recoil.


Kontra Kommando said:

I live in NJ, there are certainly home invaders like this. It has happened to people in my family, but not to that extent. My Grandfather, actually beat the shit out of this one guy. But the guy eventually pushed my grandfather down, and he ran out the house. Another time, it almost happened to my mother while she was home taking care of my brother and sister who were infants. But she managed to slam the door on the guy's hand, pinning him there. Eventually a swarm of police cars showed up, and arrested him.


What part in NJ are you from? I'm in the Monmouth County area. We get quite a bit of burglaries in my town.

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GoatLord said:

To those that sympathize with the criminals: I do too, in a sense. I can't imagine what lifestyle leads to a criminal life, but I can imagine going down the wrong path because it--through whatever trauma and ugliness you experienced growing up--can be easily rationalized. It's severe cognitive dissonance. It allows you to see yourself as above the law or having no regard for safety. So yeah, it's a problem that we live in a world where people who have fallen pray to such extreme deviance can potentially be killed or injured in a heartbeat as a consequence. That's a risk I think we need to embrace, because this is, to me, the proper use of a firearm.


Disagree.

Every human being is born with free will and the ability to make a choice. No matter how bad you have it (as adult or growing up), you still choose what kind of person you are. You choose your actions. People simply choose to justify their actions with their negative experiences.

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Maes said:

That's what happens when the most anti-national, subversive, corrupt and stupid elements are allowed to prosper in the name of some nondescript, hazy "left culture", which is basically a sickeningly potpourri of pseudo-intellectuals, various LGBT deviants, nanny-staters, syndicalists, lobbyists, PC advocates, misguided activists, wannabe "ethnic" stoners, hooligans, eternal "students", anti-national elements etc.

...

What I described is a typical reaction of this revolting riff-raff.

Why am I not surprised that you'd turn out to be a cookie-cutter right-winger?

Bonus points for adding LGBT "deviants" into the mix, but you forgot about tree-hugging environmentalists and feminists.

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Kontra Kommando said:

What a coward. Incidents like this make it difficult for me to accept what people on the left propose for gun-control. I truly believe that piece of dog shit that beat that woman would think twice if he suspected the owners might have a firearm in the house. Hopefully the next time he decides to do this, he is greeted with a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the stomach.



Well, and here's where the anti-gun-control logic disintegrates:

If the invaders have to fear that they might get shot at, they bring their own guns, making bloodshed even more likely - just read the story that started this thread: The grandfather was also seriously wounded by gunshots!

Guns never solve problems, they only create worse ones.

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Graf Zahl said:

Well, and here's where the anti-gun-control logic disintegrates:

If the invaders have to fear that they might get shot at, they bring their own guns, making bloodshed even more likely - just read the story that started this thread: The grandfather was also seriously wounded by gunshots!

Guns never solve problems, they only create worse ones.


An intruder would most likely bring their own gun/any other lethal weapon regardless of knowing whether or not the homeowner was armed. So should police not stop armed home intruders with their own firearms because of the risk of more bloodshed?

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Belial said:

Bonus points for adding LGBT "deviants" into the mix, but you forgot about tree-hugging environmentalists and feminists.


We don't get many of those (ecology and feminism) here, surprisingly. Ecology and feminism just doesn't seem to fit in (or at least, don't serve "antifa" political agendas as well as "immigrant rights").

There is however a staggering number of LGBT "solidarity groups" with (illegal) immigrants. I guess because they make eager and cheap -as well as axotic- stallions.

@Graf: Gun use by ethnic group/criminal class is another matter altogether. E.g. Albanian gangsters in Greece ALWAYS use AK-47s, even if they are robbing 80 yo ladies, as their culture teaches them to expect no mercy from their "enemies", and their country is choke-full of AK-47s, so they don't take risks. A Pakistani or gypsy burglar OTOH is less likely to have a firearm, so they resort to knives or simply beating you up. If they know you're going to be armed (e.g. a cop) then they simply stay the fuck away from your house, or wait until you have left. I don't believe this "firearm criminal upgrade" theory: those that can get firearms do it anyway and sooner or later "graduate" to harder, juicier targets like robbing banks or armored vans. Those that don't remain bottom feeders.

In the US, for good or bad, they have reached a sort of dynamic equilibrium: criminals can get guns anyway, but so can (most) citizens. In turn, even less well-connected criminals can get guns, which generates more demand for guns by part of citizens etc. and in the end both criminals and citizens coexist into a sort of "non-assured mutual destruction" game equilibrium: a criminal in the US would be a fool to break in unarmed, but even if he's armed he may lose it all anyway. At least with the current state of affairs the homeowners-citizens get a chance too, rather than just criminals having guns.

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I've been to Greece on a vacation thrice in the past and it was always your typical mediterranean "bore". Considering Maes' pulp fiction tales, I see it turned into a violent, dangerous, hostile shithole, so I'll make sure to warn everyone against a vacation there. Thanks, Maes!

Everyone, come to the Czech Republic instead. We can own as many guns as we want to, but we choose not to, because there's no need for it. Come get drunk in a cultural environment!

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Maes said:

Albanian gangsters in Greece ALWAYS use AK-47s, even if they are robbing 80 yo ladies, as their culture teaches them to expect no mercy from their "enemies", and their country is choke-full of AK-47s, so they don't take risks.

I swear Albanians are the Afghans of Europe.

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dew said:

I've been to Greece on a vacation thrice in the past and it was always your typical mediterranean "bore". Considering Maes' pulp fiction tales, I see it turned into a violent, dangerous, hostile shithole, so I'll make sure to warn everyone against a vacation there. Thanks, Maes!


Athens looks like a swell vacation spot to me!



dew said:

Everyone, come to the Czech Republic instead. We can own as many guns as we want to, but we choose not to, because there's no need for it. Come get drunk in a cultural environment!


Sweet, I like to go target/skeet shooting for fun so I would get a gun regardless if I need one or not.

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politics are screwing up worldwide... end of story.

Written in a country where whistling at a woman is sex based discrimination punishable with fines, while beating up
a burglar can get you convicted for violence and harm if you are unable to prove if the burglar wanted to harm you...

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dew said:

I've been to Greece on a vacation thrice in the past and it was always your typical mediterranean "bore".


If you went to an island or a tourist resort, sure. Those are fairly safe, if "boring" (if Sea & Sun (TM) are not exactly your cup of tea. They are not mine either, so don't worry ;-)

The worst problems with criminality are in downtown Athens, certain suburbs and some rural areas which happen to be the "turf" of various ethnic mafias or gypsy colonies. Athens is such a shithole, that everyone I know, including me, would rather emigrate than moving there for a job. Demonstrations and riots are also almost exclusive to Athens, but that comes as no surprise, as the center of politics is (also) there. It'd be pointless to organize a large protest e.g. in Thessaloniki. However even riots and protests are now rarer, after their peak in 2011. People just lost hope/momentum or realized the futility of getting both your head busted open and your ass rammed with taxes.

There are a lot more antifa festivals, however. Their number has gone up 500% since 2012. I didn't even know we had such a large problem with fascism to need all those antifa rallies.

Cities in the North of Greece, such as Thessaloniki, are much safer, if much more provincial, and with severely less economical opportunities (per capita GDP in the Athens region is almost double that of Thessaloniki, the second largest city, comparable only to some "high value" tourist traps like Rhodi, which however also has its fair share of mafia and crime problems). I guess you can't have it all, safe city & money flowing :-/

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Graf Zahl said:

Well, and here's where the anti-gun-control logic disintegrates:

If the invaders have to fear that they might get shot at, they bring their own guns, making bloodshed even more likely - just read the story that started this thread: The grandfather was also seriously wounded by gunshots!

Guns never solve problems, they only create worse ones.

Bullshit. Pure utter bullshit. Had the grandfather not had a gun, his granddaughter would have gotten raped, and they both possibly would have been killed. The gun gave him a viable way to defend his family.

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Satyr000 said:

Disagree.

Every human being is born with free will and the ability to make a choice. No matter how bad you have it (as adult or growing up), you still choose what kind of person you are. You choose your actions. People simply choose to justify their actions with their negative experiences.


Uhm, I'm not really sure what we're disagreeing on here. I completely agree that everyone makes their own choices in life. I was also saying that cognitive dissonance can justify making incredibly shitty choices. Then you have psychopathic individuals, who are so removed from empathy that no amount of psychology could allow them to see how horrifying their behavior is. The way I see it, if you've premeditated a break-in and rape, then fuck you. You deserve to fucking die.

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Such threads always make me chuckle. I mean, one would expect that on such a manly forum about the baddest, meanest game about the baddest, meanest Space Marine of all time, that kills monsters from Hell all responses would be like:

ROFLMAO, Grandpa is badass like Doomguy, took down brown crooks like imps!

Doomguy-grandpa said: "Gah! Zombies with guns! Time to swap some some lead!"

Imagine if grandpa used a SSG and killed all 3 imps with just 2 shells!

Grandpa should keep a barrel near his window, and shoot it as soon as the dirty brown imps broke into his house


etc.

and not this whiny leftist liberal gun control bullshit we get everytime. Jesus Christ.

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