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Black
Loser


Posts: 78
Registered: 03-02


What a surprise...Lut running his mouth again. Did you not see what I had written about the Christian God? Unfortunately for you, you live in the "The religion is good, it's just the people that make it bad" bullshit world. The fact of the matter is if people CAN use it to the extent they used Christianity then the religion isn't good. It has too many flaws. The fact that people can find justification for killing through the bible makes the bible and everything it stands for worthless. Do I really need to go on?

The King of Thieves,
Black

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Old Post 05-30-02 19:44 #
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Little Faith
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Black said:
Even now, your opinions, thoughts and statistics are damaged. You neglected to acknowledge that we have nearly perfected an artificial womb. Thus your entire argument behind 'women having to be stronger for reproduction reasons' no longer stands as powerfully as it once had. Their superiority (almost to the point of their existance) from a genetic standpoint has become nearly irrelevant.

The King of Thieves,
Black

Little Faith, this is no reason to make up an alternative to Charles Darwin's theories about Evolution because it is still practical to the world in which we live in. Humanity will not evolve as long as we can hide behind our technology.



In fact I have already recognised that my statements were obsolete when I first made them. I was simply pointing out that there were a reason behind females better being able to endure hardships.

I do in fact welcome the artifical womb thing. Centralized breeding, rather than individual reproduction schemes, would strengthen our sense of community and finally put an end to the outdated idea of "family". It would also mean that human populations was easier to control and genetic changes easier to implement for the common good.
Centralized breeding would be the cornerstone to the ultimate socialist community. Long live the hive queens!

I do have some doubts about these utopian ideas of mine. How do we make sure that this revolution will happen properly? If it did it would mean a great step forward for humanity, but if it didn't the result are those of unspeakable horror.

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Old Post 05-30-02 19:53 #
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pritch
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dsm said:

Lucky bastard, I've got to go through 24 more days!


Good Luck. At least this means more fanfic from me now, look out for part 2 of service 18.

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Old Post 05-30-02 23:07 #
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fodders
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Black said:
What a surprise...Lut running his mouth again.
Does the ground beneath your feet feel stable still? L(DaftU)T doesn't take prisoners you know?

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 05-30-02 23:23 #
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Danarchy
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Hmm...it seems as though Black actualy knows what I was talking about. Females are weaker than males. Those bodybuilders that Lüt showed us are NOT the norm, as are male bodybuilders. In fact, male bodybuilders still have more muscle mass than those female bodybuilders (though I think that was already stated.

What I'm saying though is not sexist, it is just fact. Hell, I'd much rather live in a matriarchy but history has not been that kind to the human race.

If you havn't already realised it, I often speak theoreticaly and factualy when I argue. Usualy, its not my opinion thats doing the talking unless I have a very strong opinion on the matter or the discussion doesn't seem very important.

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Old Post 05-31-02 01:23 #
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Lüt
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dsm said:
They don't have as many (or as big) muscles as male body builders, so the argument falls to the ground.
Heh yeah I know, just being silly, don't mind me :P

Black said:
What a surprise...Lut running his mouth again.
Says the person whose post is over 2x as long as mine.

Black said:
Unfortunately for you, you live in the "The religion is good, it's just the people that make it bad" bullshit world.
It's not a bullshit world, thanks anyway.

I could shove an apple down your throat and suffocate you to death. It doesn't make the apple a bad thing, it makes me a bad person.

Black said:
The fact of the matter is if people CAN use it to the extent they used Christianity then the religion isn't good.
They don't even use it truly, they twist it. Like I say, it's their own personalized version, not the real thing.

Black said:
It has too many flaws.
When interpreted by flawed individuals.

Black said:
The fact that people can find justification for killing through the bible makes the bible and everything it stands for worthless.
Yeah, they find it the same way a lawyer manages to land a massive medical bill on a couple for an injury a person received on this couple's property while robbing their house. Pure wordplay.

Black said:
Do I really need to go on?
If you feel the need.

Black said:
The King of Thieves
Yes, you do steal a lot of otherwise good forum space with your excessively one-sided "you're all wrong due to some technicality" posts.

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Old Post 05-31-02 06:33 #
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Vominus
I am the
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Yeah, Black is an idiot.

These aren't the best lyrics but I thought they were pretty relevant. They're from a band called Death and the music/lyrics were written by Chuck Schuldiner, the grandfather of death metal who died 6 months ago from from cancer. The main reason I'm even putting this here is just because Death kicks ass and you should all do yourselves a favor and listen to them if you want to hear what intelligent, melodic death metal sounds like.

7. GENETIC RECONSTRUCTION

Extending a life with total resistance
To fatal disease, future methods of science

Replacing what is real by using technology
Population control, selecting those who will breed
A specific type of form chosen for the unborn
A mind without emotion
Progressive anatomy

Genetic Reconstruction
Evolution in Production

Producing a race of human machines
A new age of existence the world will see

Death

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Old Post 05-31-02 07:35 #
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Little Faith
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When misunderstanding kicks in, the flame will spread like a wildfire.

Are noone listening to anything in it's context? I was only saying that females were sturdier built than males because their part in the reproduction warranted it. Nothing about female superiority.

With respect to your post Vominus you have understood my ideas right. Only that I do not view the words in those lyrics with loathing and fear.

Also I think you should try to seperate my viewpoints from Black's. We do not think in the same way at all. We just share some of our ideas about the world.

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Last edited by Little Faith on 05-31-02 at 10:34

Old Post 05-31-02 10:27 #
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Black
Loser


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Do you believe in the healing power of laughter?

Ah... I have scouted a nazi among us. Or at least the equivalent of one. Vominus you believe I am an idiot? You don't even know me. Quite frankly people tend to act totally different when speaking on a computer or in a chat room then they do in real life. That is alright with me however because you simply will be classified

"Clone."

The fact that you simply tag a name onto me without trying to understand me or my opinions and resort to someone's lyrics to find a form of intellectual language in which to speak to us is somewhat sad. But nevermind that---

Onto Lut... Lut you proved my point for me. It isn't the person that finds the weakness in something. It is what they find the weakness in. Whether it is our constitution, the bible or whatever the fact of the matter is there are loop-holes in which people can exploit. It is human nature to exploit things to their own gain. Maybe the creater of that particular doctrine should stop being so idealistic and come back to earth so he can actually make something that will always serve it's purpose under its established guidelines. It is when people try to stretch one good idea to cover more than it really can cover is when the holes are formed.

Yes. My message was twice as long as yours. But at least I do not assume the name of the 'Jesus Christ Incarnate,' ince in fact by doing that you are exploiting his very name. Quite frankly I only said, "What a surprise...Lut running his mouth again," simply because it seemed to me that you were not even thinking about what the_Danachist was trying to say. Thus I said that because only a fool who does not choose his words well runs his mouth whereas someone else with a little thought behind their words speaks.

You completely took the apple-down my throat-bad thing out of context. It is NOTHING like the bible. Humans did not create an apple. An apple has no human-error. There are no stories of death or destruction or philosophical ways of thinking in an apple. People simply tag on those things. In the context your speaking it would seem more like:

"I could shove the bible (as a physical object) down your throat and suffocate you to death. It doesn't make the bible a bad thing, it makes me a bad person."

In that case yeah. People are not willing to die for a book. A bible as a physical object is worthless. Lets print a couple thousand off today and sell them next week. That is how valuable it is. But now, when you take it's symbolism or philosophical viewpoints, people are willing to die for it. I would've hoped anyone with a little cognitive activity could figure that out but apparently not. A real-life work in practice cannot be truly twisted. An idealistic work in practice can be.

I am simply practical. That is all. I do not live in your smiley faced politically correct world. If there wasn't a hole to exploit people wouldn't have the opportunity to twist it with their as you said 'word-play.' If the bible is so incredibly flawless, then I ask you, recite something meaningful that is not biased in some way. It's impossible. The fact that anyone takes the entire bible in it's entirity as 'faith' makes me laugh at you. And only a fool would blame me.

I ask again, do you believe in the healing power of laughter? Heh...

The King of Thieves (Jesus was also refered to as the king of theives... imagine that Lut)

Black

Fodders, the earth shakes for no single man. And if it were able, Lut would be the last man I'd fear. I don't think I need to go on. Unless you feel inclined once again to defend yourself with your thoughtless comments that waste my time. I don't mind. It's entertainment nonetheless. Yes...Yes... I am an asshole. ;)

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Old Post 05-31-02 19:46 #
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Little Faith
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Black, you would do well not to sound so hostile. It is not your opinions I am criticising but the way you express them.

Right now you sound like Lût is at your throat, which is wrong! Calm down, this is a friendly discussion where we are trying to disagree (or agree) with eachother in a friendly manner. Calm down. Lût was only disagreeing strongly with your opinion. (He did express himself in a somewhat harsh manner though).

What I am saying now applies to all participants in this thread: Please remember that this is a friendly discussion!

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Old Post 05-31-02 20:07 #
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Black
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Ha... I have never heard of such a thing lasting for more than 10 minutes. And I am anything but hostile. I am very relaxed although I understand why you may feel that way. It's all relative. The more things change the more they stay the same.

The King of Thieves,
Black

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Old Post 05-31-02 20:17 #
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VileSlay
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I agree with black on his spin on the bible. the fact of the matter is we have a book that has been translated from a language other than english. if you compare some of the original hebrew text with the english translation there are errors. the bible is very much like the constitution. they are both flexible documents, open to interpretation. I personally think both are flawed. I look at the bible as book filled with some good philosiphy and entertaining stories.

as for the women thing, there was a time where early human society was matriarchal. family lines where traced through the woman because she would be the parent you could be sure of. there were cultures where a fertility goddess would reign over the male god. somewhere along the line the men won out over the women. mysoginy was born. and we have our learned behavior of today. men stronger than women. women must look good to attract mate with makeup, clothes, etc. its all something we have learned over the ages and have yet to completely unlearn.

what is fact is fact, what is opinion is onpinion. remember, opinions are like assholes, everybody got one and they all stink.

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Old Post 05-31-02 20:29 #
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Little Faith
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Sorry Black. I will swallow my words.

I was just scared a moment that this interesting thread should degenerate into a flamewar.

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Old Post 05-31-02 21:55 #
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Danarchy
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Whee...the funny thing is that no one has really discussed my main point at all. Now the point of having a rhetorical argument is not to attack each other. Basicaly the point is to take apart the other's arguments and find the flaws, but not out of hostility towards the person, but rather in a way that allows you to share your opinions and information with others.

And Black...try not to piss off Lüt, because he's an admin and has the power to ban.

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Old Post 05-31-02 23:08 #
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Little Faith
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Good to be hearing from you again Dan. I hope this is on topic:

Your theory (the one stated in the first post) builds upon these assumptions: Women are generally the most shrewd leaders because they naturally see issues from several angles and have a "nurturing" approach towards their surroundings. Women does not have the urge to remake everything around them that men do.

This is my own elaboration on your theory:

The urge to change everything around us is that which has driven our civilisation forward. Therefore the male aspect has been allowed to dominate our society. The lack female aspects in our society is lamentable because we have lost our abilities to live in harmony with ourselves and our surroundings in our vain attempt to change and "penetrate" everything around us.

A lot of these ideas were stated by intellectual feminists in the 70's.

Right at the moment I am unsure as to what extent I believe in your theory (though I am sure I won't buy it wholesale). I just thought the theory needed a restatement.

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Old Post 06-01-02 00:23 #
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Danarchy
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Yeah, you worded that a lot better. Thats pretty much what I was trying to say. I'm low on thoughs and time right now, so this is probably the last you're going to hear out of me today.

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Old Post 06-01-02 01:05 #
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fodders
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All assumptions about what the female role was are now worthless, the role of females was decided by education,social laws, legal laws, and social economics: all changed since around 1980, the effects have not filtered down to street level yet, but will, then all your steriotypical comments can be shown to be void, women inferior to men? My ass
Respect for women varies from culture to culture. The main difference seems to be between Patriarchal societies (where power resides with men) and Matriarchal (where power resides with women). Almost all Judeo/Christian societies are patriarchal, where as many "primitive" cultures are Matriarchal.
Believe it or not, in some societies women own the property and pass it down to their daughters. Women are the leaders and make the important decisions. And yes, it works just fine. So there is no inherent reason why women shouldn't be treated equally.

My understanding (although I don't have any figures on hand) is that Matriarchal societies are far less violent. In pagan belief, women or should I say feminitity is worshipped (as is mother nature) since women are the ones that bring new life into the world. Paganism has always been repressed by organized religion as they fear and supress the animal we all have within.

In the '60s, women became aware of the discrimination and double standard imposed upon them by this male dominated society. This is because suddenly women became part of the workforce, but weren't treated equally. It's quite understandable since men hadn't had to compete with women before.

Feminism became a very powerful movement in America and did help liberate women from some of the stereotypes. Men were extremely defensive for awhile as it's difficult to change these ingrained patterns of thinking. (A lotta cognitive dissonance going on there)

Nowadays women do have more power and opportunities, but they still have far to go to counter centuries (or millenia) of cultural bias.

In my opinion, society would greatly benefit from a return to Matriarchy as the violence (almost entirely male in origin) has gotten out of hand. Some people say that it's men's nature to compete for women and if it takes a fist fight or a whole war, it's something we should just accept as an expression of our "animal nature". Bullshit. While there are many animals that do fight for mates, they rarely fight to the death. Only humans, the "highest species" does this, and for far less reason than mating.

On the positive side, changing roles is something not only challenging, but very enlightening. However it will take many generations before men and women can just be themselves without society dictating the roles. It's our aging social and religious institutions that are slow to accept change. Even big business and government are unwilling to share power with women as long as the "good ol' boys" are still around. Give it a couple of generations more and maybe we won't have to be discussing this anymore.
The modern world is ruled largely by men of middle age and older. Though such individuals may be qualified for leadership in business and politics by reason of their career experiences, as a group they may be the least qualified psychologically to make vital decisions on behalf of their entire species (Barbara G. Walker)

The Mosuo are a non-Chinese ethnic minority living within the boundaries of China. Their homeland lies on the borders of Yuennan and Szetchuan provinces, not far from Tibet. Anthropologist Wang Shu Wu conducted the first research on the Mosuo in 1954. Later, the feminist scholar Yan Ruxian (1980) also did fieldwork there. The Mosuo are considered by Chinese anthropologists to be matriarchal, because they are still living in accordance with the patterns of matrilinearity and matrilocality.

What makes the Mosuo so interesting for many anthropologists is their matriarchal society. The majority of the Mosuo still live according to the patterns of matrilinearity and matrilocality in big clan-houses that are built in a square. All persons within each clan-house have the clan name of the eldest woman, the clan mother. These names are, for example: "Tiger Mother," "Snake Mother," "Cougar Mother," "Tree Mother," and so on. The names, as well as the common ownership of the house and the land, are exclusively inherited through the female line.

The women of the first generation are between sixty and eighty years old.

The Women of the second generation are between forty and sixty years old. One woman of a group of sisters has been elected by the clan members to be the matriarch. With the help of her sisters, she cares for the economic and social affairs of the clan-house. She is the administrator of all possessions of the clan: the house, fields, domestic animals and food, as well as the horses, which are mostly used by the men of the clan, her brothers and sons. All goods are given into her hands: the crops of the fields, the fruits of the gardens, the fishes and hunted animals - even the goods and the money that have been earned by the men through long-distance trade by means of horse caravans. She is also the distributor of these goods, caring for the welfare of every member of the extended family. She plans the agricultural labor, acts as host for the guests, and is the priestess of the clan house during the important family ceremonies, like the initiation festival of the girls and the funeral ceremonies for the deceased. Her brother, elected to be the representative of the clan, helps her by organizing external affairs, which involves communication with the neighbors and planning the men's work.

The women of the third generation are between thirteen and forty years old. At about thirteen years of age, after the ceremony of initiation, girls are considered to be full members of the clan and are given the key to their own rooms. This young generation of women does the hard work in the fields and gardens. They are also occupied with love, pregnancy, and motherhood. Their traditional custom was to have mutual marriage between two clans, but this form has ceased to exist. Today, each woman chooses her lovers as she wishes. Love affairs are easily begun and easily broken off without problems for the young woman and her children because they are all at home in their (grand)mother's house.

A Mosuo man has his rights and duties in the house of his mother, not in the house of his love, where he is only a guest.
The children belong exclusively to the mother and her clan. The brothers of the young women take care of the nieces and nephews, who are regarded as their children, too, because they share the same clan name. The uncles of the children fulfill the role of social fatherhood, which is typical for matriarchal societies. Biological fatherhood makes no sense to the Mosuo, socially or spiritually.

You pays your money and takes your choice

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Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-01-02 01:16 #
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IMJack
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fodders pasted:
The Mosuo

Chinese Amazons. Shit, dude. I'm headed to China, pick up a few martial arts techniques.

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Old Post 06-01-02 03:01 #
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fodders
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Shame they don't practice the mythological amazons and cut a breast off, 2 has always confused me, I don't like to play favourites

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Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-01-02 03:06 #
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Little Faith
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Not only do the Mosuo stand as a living proof against the inevitability of patriarchal culture. They are also a proof against the inevitability of the nuclear family.

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Old Post 06-01-02 03:36 #
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fodders
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Are you stupid? There is nothing in their society that shows any sign of breaking down, where is the inevitability of patriarchal culture?

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Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-01-02 04:01 #
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Little Faith
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You don't understand me Fod. I said a proof AGAINST! Or maybe it's just my English that is not as good as I would like it to be.

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Old Post 06-01-02 04:21 #
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fodders
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Sorry, it's the "inevitability " I took exception to :)

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Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-01-02 04:29 #
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Black
Loser


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Fodders,

I agree with you Fodders. Still though, on a basis of world power, women are inferior. Again, I don't want to seem sexist, but I don't understand why you wouldn't acknowledge my arguments when looking at the Middle East, Japan or even America. I understand that America has gotten better but women still haven't even tried to touch certian professions due to inevitable criticism.

Do not forget why this argument even started. It is based off whether or not a male philosophy is credible. Quite frankly, 90% of everything that people abide by today was founded by males. I'm not saying that is right or anything, it's just fact. How many matriarchal societies would you consider a world power? How many patriarchal societies would you consider a world power? Think about it.

The King of Thieves,
Black

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Old Post 06-02-02 00:36 #
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Rellik
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Mentally, emotionally, and psychologically, men and woman are equal. Despite what they might say, women are just as bad, just as insensitive, and just as insidious as men. Infact they acctually cheat more than men do, 60% of men cheat, 80% of women cheat. And they call us pigs.... :p

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Old Post 06-02-02 05:32 #
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Little Faith
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How clearly does this thread show that the majority of the Doom community are males?

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Old Post 06-02-02 14:26 #
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dsm
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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I'm just waiting for someone to show up and say something like: "Morons, women are far stronger and much more clever than those brain-dead men!" ;-)

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Old Post 06-02-02 16:32 #
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Fredrik


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Morons, women are far stronger and much more clever than those brain-dead men!

Old Post 06-02-02 16:47 #
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fodders
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The wife, modders, tried to but I wouldn't tell her what her password was :)

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Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-02-02 18:36 #
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fodders
OWNS YOU


Posts: 5810
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With Princess Victoria next in line to the throne in Sweden that may soon become matriarchal :)

__________________
Fod's page Son's place De Man's place
You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-02-02 18:39 #
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