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fodders
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Islamic terrorists are planning an attack against a U.S. nuclear power plant to coincide with the July 4 celebrations, U.S. intelligence sources say.

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Old Post 05-25-02 20:28 #
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IMJack
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The claims of a plot were obtained by U.S. intelligence agencies last week. It coincides with other recent reports indicating that two al Qaeda terrorists are planning an attack inside the United States using radioactive material in a conventional bomb.
The nuclear plant threat obtained last week indicated that an unidentified Islamic terrorist group is planning to attack the Three Mile Island (TMI) nuclear facility in Pennsylvania, or another nuclear facility in the state or elsewhere in the Northeast.

Here you have to ask yourself: What would be the point of setting off a dirty bomb in an area already locked down for a radioactive accident? It's highly unlikely that any large population lives close enough to TMI (or any modern nuke plant) to be affected by a dirty bomb's fallout. Also, when you surround an explosive with a material to spread around (the radioactive shit that makes a dirty bomb "dirty"), a lot of the bomb's explosive potential is wasted throwing the debris around; you'd be able to do much more damage with the bomb just by losing the stuff you want to spread.

[Note to the Clancynically-uninformed: a dirty bomb is a core of explosives surounded by nuclear fuel; conversely, a real nuclear bomb is a core of nuclear fuel surrounded by explosives.]

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Old Post 05-25-02 21:15 #
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fodders
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It took 10 years but TMI was cleaned, the dirty bomb would not be used to attack a nuclear facility, but a crowded city area, attacking TMI would be to cause it to explode, Washington is only 100 miles away

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Old Post 05-25-02 21:56 #
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IMJack
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fodders said:
It took 10 years but TMI was cleaned, the dirty bomb would not be used to attack a nuclear facility, but a crowded city area, attacking TMI would be to cause it to explode, Washington is only 100 miles away
It's clean, but it's still locked down. And a dirty bomb wouldn't even be enough to breach TMI. And of course, now that we have this warning, Geiger counters are going to be in vogue for police organizations and entry stations. Besides, by publishing this threat, it is now inviable and impossible.

The key to terrorism is to be unexpected. September 11th was entirely unexpected, and if they hit us again, it'll be something the government has no way of predicting or learning about. And since the gummint has been learning about and publishing all these plans, the acutal chance of another successful terrorist attack gets smaller and smaller.

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Old Post 05-25-02 22:32 #
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fodders
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IMJack said:
September 11th was entirely unexpected, and if they hit us again, it'll be something the government has no way of predicting or learning about.
You are suffering a delusion if you think Sept 11 was unexpected, it is becoming quite clear that certain parts of your gov. knew of the threat, sheesh they even did a mock up of the Pentagon attack for a drill 11 months earlier

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Old Post 05-26-02 01:39 #
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fodders
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And this just seems scary, $20 bill shows Sept 11 attack?
1. Fold a $20 bill in half so that you see the top half of the reverse side.

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/images/fold1.jpg

2. Fold the left half away from you as shown.

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/images/fold2.jpg

Continued in next post

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 05-26-02 01:51 #
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3. Fold the right half so that the burning Pentagon is revealed.

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/images/bill01.jpg

4. Flip the bill over to see the World Trade Center.

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/images/bill03.jpg

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/images/osama20.jpg

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Old Post 05-26-02 01:52 #
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RRROOOAAARRR
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I still think the next attack will be biological...it's the most effective way to cause maximum panic/disruption/loss of life and the hardest to defend against or prevent.

Depends whether they're going to go for symbolic targets as on 9/11, try to casue panic/disruption, or actually try to cause maximum loss of life ( which they didn't on 9/11 ).

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Old Post 05-26-02 02:00 #
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fodders
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The resulting cost to world economy since 9/11 has been tremendous

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Old Post 05-26-02 02:24 #
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RRROOOAAARRR
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Undoubtedly, but it was the symbolic value of the targets that counted most IMO...WTC, Pentagon, and that other plane was apparently heading for the White House? All symbols of the US; I'm surprised they didn't go for the Statue Of Liberty actually. If they's just wanted loss of life, fly a fully-fuelled plane into the Superbowl or something.

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Old Post 05-26-02 02:36 #
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fodders said:
You are suffering a delusion if you think Sept 11 was unexpected, it is becoming quite clear that certain parts of your gov. knew of the threat, sheesh they even did a mock up of the Pentagon attack for a drill 11 months earlier
"Certain parts of our government". Had anyone paid attention to the threat, and published it and prepared for it, it never would have happened. Remember, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

The page you link to is about a "what if" excercize, not specifically because of the threats of 9/11. They do "what if" scenarios all the time. Also, with that $20 bill thing? I want to know what you're smoking, and why you're not sharing it with the rest of us.

Undoubtedly, but it was the symbolic value of the targets that counted most IMO
No shit, Sherlock. They could've easily nuked every college/university campus in America, and it would've done a helluva lot more damage in the long run, but these people are terrorists, not military.

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Old Post 05-26-02 02:44 #
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The governments of at least four countries—Germany, Egypt, Russia and Israel—gave specific warnings to the US of an impending terrorist attack in the months preceding September 11. These alerts, while fragmentary, not only combined to foretell the scale of the attack and its main target, but indicated that hijacked commercial aircraft would be the weapon of choice.

According to an article in one of the major daily newspapers in Germany, published just after the destruction of the World Trade Center, the German intelligence service BND told both US and Israeli intelligence agencies in June that Middle East terrorists were “planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture.”

The newspaper cited unnamed German intelligence sources, who said that the information came through Echelon, the US-controlled system of 120 satellites which monitors all worldwide electronic communications. Echelon is operated jointly by the United States, Canada, Britain, Australia and New Zealand, although its existence is not officially admitted.

The government of Egypt sent an urgent warning to the US June 13 2001, based on a video made by Osama bin Laden. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak told the French newspaper Le Figaro that the warning was originally delivered just before the G-8 summit in Genoa. It was taken seriously enough that antiaircraft batteries were stationed around Christopher Columbus Airport in the Italian city.

According to Russian press reports, Russian intelligence notified the CIA during the summer that 25 terrorist pilots had been specifically training for suicide missions. In an interview September 15 with MSNBC, Russian President Vladimir Putin confirmed that he had ordered Russian intelligence in August to warn the US government “in the strongest possible terms” of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings.

The London-based Sunday Telegraph reported that the Israeli intelligence service Mossad had delivered a warning to the FBI and CIA in August that as many as 200 followers of Osama bin Laden were slipping into the country to prepare “a major assault on the United States.” The advisory spoke of a “large-scale target” in which Americans would be “very vulnerable.”

The Los Angeles Times cited unnamed US officials confirming this Mossad warning had been received. (Source: Sunday Telegraph, September 16, 2001, “Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks,”

The Independent, a liberal daily in Great Britain, published an article asserting the US government “was warned repeatedly that a devastating attack on the United States was on its way.” The Independent cited an interview given by Osama bin Laden to a London-based Arabic-language newspaper, al-Quds al-Arabi, in late August. About the same time, tighter security measures were ordered at the World Trade Center, for unexplained reasons. (Source: Independent, September 17, 2001,)

Three incidents of attempted attacks on buildings using airplanes took place during 1994. The first, in April of that year, involved a Federal Express flight engineer who was facing dismissal. He boarded a DC-10 as a passenger and invaded the cockpit, planning to crash the plane into a company building in Memphis, but was overpowered by the crew. The second came that September, when a lone pilot crashed a stolen single-engine Cessna into a tree on the White House grounds just short of the president’s bedroom. The third was the December hijacking of an Air France flight in Algiers by the Armed Islamic Group. The hijackers had the plane land in Marseilles and ordered it loaded with 27 tons of fuel, three times the amount required to reach Paris. Their aim was to crash it into the Eiffel Tower. French special forces stormed the plane on the ground. (Source: New York Times, October 3, 2001)

In January 1995, Philippine police arrested and tortured Abdul Hakim Murad in a Manila apartment where bomb-making equipment was found. He told them of plans to plant timed explosive devices on 11 US airliners simultaneously, and to crash-land an airplane into CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The preparations were so far advanced that Murad detailed the specific flights targeted, most of them trans-Pacific flights which would explode over the ocean.

Murad had attended flying schools in the United States, earned a commercial pilot’s license, and told investigators he was to fly the plane into CIA headquarters. Another Islamic fundamentalist was to fly a second plane into the Pentagon. (Source: Washington Post, September 23,)

Later that year, the alleged organizer of the first World Trade Center bombing, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was captured in Pakistan, turned over to US agents and flown back to the United States for trial. On the flight, Yousef reportedly boasted to FBI agent Brian Parr and the other agents guarding him that he had narrowly missed several opportunities to blow up a dozen airliners on a single day over the Pacific and to carry out a kamikaze-type suicide attack on CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Yousef was referring to the same plot for which Abdul Hakim Murad had been arrested in the Philippines. Murad was extradited to the United States, where his testimony played a major role in Yousef’s trial and conviction.

Early in 1996, US officials had identified crop-dusters and suicide flights as potential terrorist weapons, and began taking elaborate steps to prevent an attack from the air during the Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta. Black Hawk helicopters and US Customs Service jets were deployed to intercept suspicious aircraft in the skies over the Olympic venues.
Agents monitored crop-duster flights within hundreds of miles of downtown Atlanta. Law enforcement agents also fanned out to regional airports throughout northern Georgia “to make sure nobody hijacked a small aircraft and tried to attack one of the venues,” said Woody Johnson, the FBI agent in charge of the Atlanta office at the time. From July 6 through the end of the Games on August 11, the FAA banned all aviation within a one-mile radius of the Olympic Village that housed the athletes.
It also ordered aircraft to stay at least three miles away from other sites beginning three hours before each event until three hours after each event ended. (Source: Los Angeles Times, November 17, 2001)

There is more but how much warning do you need

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Last edited by fodders on 05-26-02 at 18:59

Old Post 05-26-02 03:10 #
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IMJack
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They had the warning. They just didn't pay attention to it. If the American public had learned BEFORE the attack, it never would have happened. That's the point I'm trying to make. What we need is for them to publish this crap, like we're doing now after the fact, instead of waiting until everything goes to hell and then throwing accusations around.

Goddamn reactionary public...

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Old Post 05-26-02 03:47 #
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Danarchy
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There was also an incident in the Philipenes where a small bomb exploded and killed like 3 people, but still was able to land. It was actualy just a test to see how easy it is to get explosives onto an aircraft.

Also, if the government never though of the possibility of planes being used as missiles against the WTC, they were seriously behind the rest of America. The Columbine shooters, Harris and Klebold actualy had a similar attack planned. After taking out the school, they were going to hijack a plane and crash it into New York City. And on the first episode of Chris Carter's series, The Lone Gunmen, a plane used to take out the Twin Towers was used in the plot.

If homicidal teenagers and network TV writers were thinking of this, why wasn't the government?

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Old Post 05-26-02 04:05 #
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Lüt
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RRROOOAAARRR said:
If they's just wanted loss of life, fly a fully-fuelled plane into the Superbowl or something.
They want to kill important people.

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Old Post 05-26-02 09:06 #
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Lüt said:
They want to kill important people.


No. What better to exact revenge than destroy the most prominent American symbol of greed (WTC), and the symbol of unjust foreign policies and military planning (Pentagon).

Old Post 05-26-02 11:12 #
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/me lives in the middle of nowhere and feels safe.

Old Post 05-26-02 14:12 #
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Thanks to that idiot Tony Blair, the UK will probably become a target. Which is fine, as I don't live in London.

Old Post 05-26-02 18:01 #
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fodders
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Yep I think it's a target judging by this news
A CRACK 24-strong Israeli bomb squad has been flown to London amid fears of an attack by the al-Qaeda terror network during the Queen's Jubilee celebrations.

The team of volunteers are experts at gathering evidence in the immediate aftermath of an explosion.

With security services on heightened alert during the Jubilee, there are reports from Europe that dozens of terrorists loyal to Osama bin Laden are trying to smuggle their way into Britain.

It has been claimed that while the Israeli team visiting the UK are here at the request of the Jewish community in London, they will also be on stand-by to help British intelligence and emergency services.

Similar teams were despatched to help the FBI after the September 11 attacks.

However, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Police said: "This is not something we would talk about."

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 05-26-02 18:11 #
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RRROOOAAARRR
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GS-1719 said:
Thanks to that idiot Tony Blair, the UK will probably become a target. Which is fine, as I don't live in London.



Don't blame Blair...much as I'm disappointed in him, he's no different from previous PMs we've had...I mean think about it, no-one kissed America's arse more than that vicious bitch Thatcher.

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Old Post 05-26-02 19:41 #
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Lüt said:
They want to kill important people.
Despite the fact that everyone on these forums has some weird hatred of sports for whatever reason, football is quite important to America as a whole. If something destroyed the super bowl, that's like 60,000 dead people.

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Old Post 05-26-02 21:35 #
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Lüt
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Archvile64 said:
Despite the fact that everyone on these forums has some weird hatred of sports for whatever reason, football is quite important to America as a whole.
Heh you just answered your question, because so many damn people take sports like a religion. It's not exactly the game, it's the hype and the way the professional leagues have turned it into possibly the biggest moneymaking scam in the world. Why so much importance is placed on such a silly thing by such a majority of people baffles those very very few of us with enough insight to be able to say "it's just a game, like any other game" and not care either way.

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Old Post 05-26-02 21:53 #
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Actually the timing of the attack on the WTC was to destroy the biulding and kill some people but not many. If they had attacked at lunch time the deathtoll could have easily be 30,000 to 100,000...

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Old Post 05-26-02 22:16 #
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RRROOOAAARRR
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Crash a plane into Times Square on New Year's Eve...hell, in any country with a semblance of freedom it's easy to find fat targets if you want. IMO they will still go for symbolic targets if they can, it's in the terrorist mentality to want big ego-massaging displays of power.

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Old Post 05-26-02 22:19 #
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Terrorism sucks.

Old Post 05-26-02 22:26 #
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fodders
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I think, despite the massive death toll, a much higher toll could have triggered a nuclear response, suspect they know these things and made sure it was at the earliest time of day

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Old Post 05-27-02 00:32 #
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RRROOOAAARRR
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Nah...I mean, who would they have launched at...? It was noticeable that no-one stepped forward and said "BWAHAHA, Evil Decadent West, we did it! BWAHAHA!"...

And nukes aren't exactly "surgical strike" weapons, now, are they?

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Old Post 05-27-02 02:38 #
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Kid Airbag
Not really a kid. Not really an airbag. WHAT THE HELL IS IT?!? Who's asking? Are you French? An airbag is a safety device in a car that inflates during a collision and blocks you from smashing your head into the dashboard or steering wheel!


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Lüt said:
Heh you just answered your question, because so many damn people take sports like a religion. It's not exactly the game, it's the hype and the way the professional leagues have turned it into possibly the biggest moneymaking scam in the world. Why so much importance is placed on such a silly thing by such a majority of people baffles those very very few of us with enough insight to be able to say "it's just a game, like any other game" and not care either way.
Hmm, it's funny you should say that because it seems the majority of people here have placed a similar importance on computer games.

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Old Post 05-27-02 04:35 #
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Lüt said:
baffles those very very few of us with enough insight to be able to say "it's just a game, like any other game" and not care either way.
You are equating your inability to join with 73% of the planet in appreciation of sport as a plus, when, in fact it's a minus in your phycological profile, probably stemming from you being picked last for team sports, a common fault with sub sport people,equating inability to compete, with knowledge or superiority

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Last edited by fodders on 06-15-02 at 14:37

Old Post 05-27-02 04:47 #
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fodders said:
I think, despite the massive death toll, a much higher toll could have triggered a nuclear response, suspect they know these things and made sure it was at the earliest time of day
A nuclear responce against who? Most of our nukes are still aimed at Russia, and it takes quite a while to retarget ICBMs, and for targeting calculations to be made. And by the time that was all finished and the nukes were ready, calmer minds would have prevailed.

Nuclear weapons are obsolete. Major governments just keep them around out of fear of the other guys, and lesser organizations want to use them as a bargaining chip, but there's no purpose served by wiping out a large population base. The threat of destruction is a much more effective tool than actual destruction; dead people know no fear.

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Old Post 05-27-02 21:14 #
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