Cracked defends Pedophilia

"There's a thread from hardcore_gamer waiting for me when I pull into Everything Else. He makes every move of a shitty thread, just like he does. At first, I figured he'd make another shit thread or two before his young mind moves on to better things. But every once in a while, there's a new thread with some retard statements for the other posters to pick apart. I do my best to keep my hand from shaking when I click on each new thread. What a sweet kid."

Can I make a suggestion for the next hardcore_gamer thread?

"If cartoon pornography existed widespread in 1920s-1940s Central Europe, would the Nazis have euthanized citizens for possession of and attraction to hentai and other forms of visual depravity? After all, these people who are addicted to sensual tentacles and cartoon depictions of rape would be considered a burden to the Reich and harmful to the genetic pool because society would have to take care of these basement dwellers who defer the necessary act of procreation to better the Aryan race.
What are your thoughts?"

We don't have to condone a behavior to see the value and importance of understanding the psychology behind it. The extreme taboo nature of this topic has shrouded it in an insta-hate cocoon, but seeking understanding of it (again, not necessarily condoning it) is as important here as it is for some other socially-reviled state of mind, like racism. But I guess it was too much to ask for someone called "hardcore_gamer" to thoughtfully examine a taboo topic.

Look, it's not like once someone turns 18, your mind works a different way and suddenly you're attracted to that person. There could be a 14 year old girl, who, given certain genetics and sense of style, might look like she's 18 or 20 very convincingly. Is it wrong to feel automatic attraction to her? Should you lie to yourself and say you weren't attracted when you find out that she was 14? Who is the authority across every single case of potential sexual moral deviance?

re: do we control our actions? In a sense, yes. We often have the conscious experience of reasoning through things when we make decisions, but we have to remember that decision-making is a process that's as automated in the brain as breathing or the heart beating, and the physical makeup of the brain (which governs our decision-making) is subject to a virtually endless string of events that make us who we are, most of which we have no choice over. So yeah, we "make decisions" but behind the curtain, the physical mechanism known as "the brain" does the work for "you." In that way, we are "free" to do what we want within these physical restrictions the same way a prisoner is "free" to do what they want in the prison's rec room. It's not philosophically clear what the implications regarding blame and retribution are, given these facts. It's a point of contention between justice systems, psychology, and moral philosophy. If you're concerned about these people walking free because they're found to be dangerous, then their danger to society is a good enough reason to lock them up. It doesn't have to be about retribution, necessarily. Anyway, at the end of the day, you can't just start condemning and throwing stones at someone only because they have the disposition of being attracted to younger people than you're comfortable with.

And now something really fucking taboo -- if the pedo acts on their attraction, and it was consensual (of course I fully accept that the age of the younger person is going to be a big factor in determining whether or not meaningful "consensus" was reached), then we don't have much room for condemnation at all. In other words, don't conflate rape with pedophelia. They're two different issues, even though they occasionally overlap. The snap-moral judgment that most people make against pedophiles comes from this mistake, I think.

geo said:

Out of ADHD, alcoholism, pedophilia and cancer, which would you think is the most depressing to people? Even throw beastiality into the mix. Which of those five are most depressing? Even if you'll die from cancer I have a feeling that its less depressing than lusting after kids. They're all diseases, whether they're mental, chemical, physiological.

I don't know...something tells me that the sheep humper wouldn't be depressed at all. Actually, he'd think he's quite the stud for "getting sum". Are we talking an urban or a more rural setting here?

Similarly for the pedophile, but it depends a lot on the setting. Like the case of the Douneika village, where pedophilia was practically a part of their little backwards clan society (though not one they cared to expose). The rationale behind it was that since everybody they knew "got it" at some point in his life, the "tradition" must continue, father to son, uncle to nephew etc.

In other words, those two categories at least may not recognize they have a problem at all and even face no consequences, under certain circumstances, while an alcoholic or a cancer sufferer cannot pretend everything is alright. About ADHD....well, hopefully their attention span won't last long enough for them to worry about it ;-)

Most of pedophillia media spurts about is limited to poor ugly sods stealing children from playgrounds, which is a silly generalization. Sorry, but mental disorders aren't limited to lowlifes. You can have a wild guess what rich people with pedophilia use their moneys for. (PROTIP: it's totally not treatment.)

So reducing the number of offenders and victims in the world, and possibly encouraging more possible offenders to seek treatment is a bad thing because...why? Choice or not, that sounds like a pretty good deal. I don't think those things are worth giving up in order to have an excuse to act violently.

Clonehunter said:

"There's a thread from hardcore_gamer waiting for me when I pull into Everything Else. He makes every move of a shitty thread, just like he does. At first, I figured he'd make another shit thread or two before his young mind moves on to better things. But every once in a while, there's a new thread with some retard statements for the other posters to pick apart. I do my best to keep my hand from shaking when I click on each new thread. What a sweet kid."

Priceless. Frank Miller would be proud.

hardcore_gamer said:

No, I am pointing out the insanity of trying to depict these people as some kind of victims. You need to keep it in mind that the article was talking about people that according to the article author, might molest children if left alone. Not people who merely feel attracted to kids in a sexual sense, but don't in any way act on their urges.

He's talking about helping people whom have yet to molest any kids and are actively seeking help for their urges.That's the people the article is talking about.

hardcore_gamer said:

I honestly could give less of a fuck if every person who has ever molested a child were gassed to death. That goes to for people who enjoy child porn but haven't molested kids personally.

Does this go for everybody who feels sexual attraction to minors? What about those who do nothing to feed these urges, at all, and are doing their best to get help for it? Do you feel the same about them?

It would be ironic if after all this drivel, we learn that hardcore_gamer got arrested for ordering some loli manga, and some over-zealous postal service clerk blew the whistle on him as a "possible pedophile".

Only now have I looked up what Hardcore_Gamer's custom title means.

It's, uhh, fitting.

Look, if someone has pedo urges but wants to be helped, we should encourage that and help them in any way possible. They're acknowledging that what they want is harmful and they're trying to stop themselves, and we should be supportive of that. They're taking initiative and being responsible.

Now, those who act on these urges.... Yeah, for once I'm (partially) with hardcore_gamer. Gas 'em. I've always been of the mind that your rights end where your infringement upon another human's rights begin. One fucked up person can fuck up a bunch of other people if they go unhelped, but that's exactly why some sort of mental help should be availible for these people. Prevention is the best cure, as they say.

Hell, rehabilitation should be offered to anyone with any sort of mental disorder. This is the best way to prevent these atrocities from happening, and is moreover a clear sign that many of those who do bad things do not want to. I also love overusing italics.

hardcore_gamer said:

"Weirdly enough, while we (correctly) vilify people who diddle kids as the predators they are,"

...

That's right, we are bad people because we don't want to help the "good" pedos from not molesting children. The guy then goes on claim that pedos should be treated like alcoholics and be helped back into society.

I think you're knee jerk reaction posting and not actually understanding the source material or the message.

When I said depressing, I guess I should have elaborated. Depressing to know someone else has one of those things. My bad. Like if someone you knew told you that they had cancer, ADHD, alcoholism, necrophilia or pedophilia. Which would you be most depressed to know they had?

Maes said:

Incidentally, the "nobody was harmed" argument has been used in court by defending pedophiles, and sometimes even successfully, the implication being ofc that the molested kids were little faggots that were asking for it, so how could there be harm?

There was a particularly infamous case in Greece, ca 1980-1981, in a small village of the Pelloponese, where practically every child in the village has been fucked again and again by pretty much everybody in its clan, as part of some old bucolic tradition and point of view on "elder-young" relationship. The final outcome was (I think) a mass absolution, and the case has been hidden under the carpet so well that it's hard to track down any data on it. The village's name is "Douneika". If you want to do the research yourself, be my guest.

However, in this case, the fact that the defendants were numerous and belonged to closely-knit clans with political connections might have played a role. kinda hard to isolate all of them as "sick monsters", like you can do with a random urban pedophile.

Speaking of old traditions....at least in the East, there has always been a strong tradition of total dominance of an apprentice, acolyte or recruit by part of his master/teacher, including sexual domination. To be fair though, this kind of "initiation pedophilia" targetted more what you'd call an "ephebus", an age range starting from late pre-pubescence to middle-late puberty, not infants, which also brings about the concept of "age of consent".

This kind of thing seems to be a recurring theme in cultures that villify women. Ancient Greece was like that which I guess the "old tradition" stems from. Same thing going on today in isolated Afghan communities.

GeckoYamori said:

This kind of thing seems to be a recurring theme in cultures that villify women.

Indeed. The common theme here is that a Boy is not automatically recognized as a Man, and until he does (by getting initiated into some Trade, Craft or Guild, or performing some other manhood rite of passage), he's effectively treated the same as a woman. Fucking included.

I once read how this is "justified" in countries such as Bangladesh or Pakistan, where opportunities for (legal) heterosexual sex outside of marriage are limited, and therefore there are a lot of older-man-on-younger-man sexual relationships (with no lower bound): it's expected that while you're still a boy you'll get fucked and be the "bottom", there's nothing you can do about it, everyone "gets it", it's part of growing up, it "teaches" you "the moves" for when you'll be in a position to "top" and dominate others etc.

BTW, someone who "tops" in this context of hierarchical domination is NOT considered a homosexual in those cultures. He's only considered "gay" if he actually likes and continues the "bottom" role past the time when he's expected to move up the ranks and "top" himself. Wrap your head around that.

The closest you can find to this mentality in the USA is inmate sexuality. Meanwhile in England....

I wonder what this lady would think about all of this:

http://mostextremenews.com/woman-sets-her-husband-on-fire-for-sexually-abusing-her-7-year-old-daughter/

If someone has an attraction to kids, but understands that it is wrong, they should have access to professional help. Ultimately, the best action the potential-predator could do, is try to figure out why he has this issue, instead of selfishly acting upon it. Unlike some other sexual preferences, pedophilia will never be reconcilable, or acceptable in contemporary first-world nations.

Could a child molester be treated and rehabilitated? Yea, I'm sure it's possible.

Should society fully restore trust back in past offenders? Personally, I wouldn't. They should be forbidden from ever working in places like schools or day-cares; places where they could potentially prey on children.

Moreover, if a supposedly rehabilitated child molester, commits the crime again; he really needs to have life in prison.

Further, if someone had admitted to be a attracted to children, and has in fact committed the crime; his revelations need to be presented in court.

j4rio said:

Most of pedophillia media spurts about is limited to poor ugly sods stealing children from playgrounds, which is a silly generalization. Sorry, but mental disorders aren't limited to lowlifes. You can have a wild guess what rich people with pedophilia use their moneys for. (PROTIP: it's totally not treatment.)

Not so, really. There's plenty of stories of some hot blonde middle school teacher getting pregnant from her 14 year old student.

Kontra Kommando said:

Not so, really. There's plenty of stories of some hot blonde middle school teacher getting pregnant from her 14 year old student.

And how is that a bad thing (unless she asks for alimony, that is)? Boy just got lucky and got sum, and those who say otherwise are just jelly ;-)

Can't really call that "pedophilia". There's a world of difference between being seduced by a hot M.I.L.F. and having your childhood sodomized in some magic van by the McDonalds clown, amirite?

Her situation is why laws and police exist. So no one gets set on fire for touching kids. They just get put in jail where they get touched like kids for their entire duration. Child molesters and pedophiles often don't survive prison life.

COBRA said: No so, really. There's plenty of stories of some hot blonde middle school teacher getting pregnant from her 14 year old student.

I knew one of them. I grew up with one of them. She was an ice queen that just didn't date. 10 or 12 years later out of high school she was nabbed for touching a kid. Served less than a year and got out with 7 years probation. Then like a dumbass she sent a nude to a minor and back she went 2 more years for sending the nude and 7 years for the breaking probation. She lost her husband over it and I think now she's free. I'd look up the case again, but after 5 years I can't even remember her name.

She never got pregnant, but it was a 13 year old she was with. In prison a second time she reached out to everyone she could no matter how vague the acquaintance. Two of my friends got letters and we got to thinking about it. Maybe she wrote them letters because she still remembers them as teenagers.

Maes said:

And how is that a bad thing (unless she asks for alimony, that is)? Boy just got lucky and got sum, and those who say otherwise are just jelly ;-)

It's not bad thing. I wish my hot female teachers would have made a move on me back in my school days. lol

Maes said:

And how is that a bad thing (unless she asks for alimony, that is)? Boy just got lucky and got sum, and those who say otherwise are just jelly ;-)

Can't really call that "pedophilia". There's a world of difference between being seduced by a hot M.I.L.F. and having your childhood sodomized in some magic van by the McDonalds clown, amirite?

I'm assuming this isn't some satirical post you're making, so correct me if it is. Would you feel the same way if the genders were reversed? What if it was some 15 year-old girl and a 35 year-old attractive male teacher, and it was completely consensual because she totally had the hots for him?

Kids are dumb. Adults know better addiction or not.

Anybody see Star Trek Voyager? That Nelix is a pedo. He's dating a 2 year old.

Here's a taboo question: Is a pedophilia victim traumatized more by their innate psychology or due to society's standards? I'm thinking back to the cultures Maes describes where pedophilia is "acceptable," and wondering how being the victim in one of these situations changed them as a person.

Kontra Kommando said:

Not so, really. There's plenty of stories of some hot blonde middle school teacher getting pregnant from her 14 year old student.

To be fair, this is probably the fantasy a number of 14 yr olds may have about their hot teacher, so...

Besides, dem Wohmahn can do no rape cuz dey dun have a payniss.

Clonehunter said:

To be fair, this is probably the fantasy a number of 14 yr olds may have about their hot teacher, so...

Besides, dem Wohmahn can do no rape cuz dey dun have a payniss.

They can buy tha paniz. There was a teacher here in Chicago busted for doing that to boys and girls. A lot of teachers have gotten busted in Chicago. One was turned in by her husband.

Caffeine Freak said:

I'm assuming this isn't some satirical post you're making

Correct.

Caffeine Freak said:

Would you feel the same way if the genders were reversed? What if it was some 15 year-old girl and a 35 year-old attractive male teacher, and it was completely consensual because she totally had the hots for him?

I admit I may have some gender bias here. A boy getting sum is ALWAYS a good thing. I believe we all had "the hots" as teenagers for one of our mature teachers, one time or another, and many a "coming of age" novel feature teenage sexuality and/or losing one's virginity, but almost always from an idealized, romanticised male/boy perspective. Getting flirted and seduced by an older, more experienced woman is practically every teenager's fantasy, and society is MUCH more tolerant towards a (technically "underage") boy "getting sum", doesn't matter how and with whom, as long as the boy "becomes a man".

As for the female perspective, we all know it's different. A 15-yo "getting sum" will cause his father to be proud "because he became a Man". A 15 yo girl doing the same will cause grief to both of her parents, because "their little girls, that little precious flower was deflowered". Unfair double standards? Maybe. But I'm just stating the facts.

However using the term "pedophilia" regarding a 15 yo person sounds out of place. That specific age that you mentioned is also in the "grey zone", IMO, and falls under the broader problem of teenager sexuality and age of consent. In some countries, there would be no legal problem (ethical/honour problems may still apply). In others, a lot, so we're not dealing with a universally accepted viewpoint here.

flubbernugget said:

Here's a taboo question: Is a pedophilia victim traumatized more by their innate psychology or due to society's standards? I'm thinking back to the cultures Maes describes where pedophilia is "acceptable," and wondering how being the victim in one of these situations changed them as a person.

I've known far too many people that were touched as kids. Its laughable you'd think they're hurt by society's standards. They're all bad memories that affect their lives and relationships from that point forward. Its always been a negative.

A few porn stars were touched as kids, but is the world of porn really a positive even if they make a lot of money? Korn's singer was touched as a kid by a baby sitter.

Here's a question for ya'all. I saw my friend's 7 year old get her tush pinched 5 times in a row by a down on his luck guy that lives with them. To me that sets off red flags, but my friend and her husband didn't care so why should I? Still, what the fuck? It still counts as some sort of sexual harassment. I still feel like bricking the guy's face over and over again, but maybe I'm the one with the problem and he was totally pinching her tush in a G rated way. They were both wearing clothes and it wasn't hidden.

flubbernugget said:

Here's a taboo question: Is a pedophilia victim traumatized more by their innate psychology or due to society's standards? I'm thinking back to the cultures Maes describes where pedophilia is "acceptable," and wondering how being the victim in one of these situations changed them as a person.

In those societies, the "coping mechanisms" are built-in the practice itself: sure, you'll get buggered as a boy/ephebus, but as you grow into a senior ephebus and eventually a Man, you get to bugger back. Everybody does it, so you cannot feel particularly traumatized.

Once again, getting buggered while not yet a Man doesn't label you as gay, nor does buggering others.

Another question is perhaps why pedophilia has to be so disgusting to society and socially repulsive. Yes its gross, and dangerous. But it can be extremely difficult to confide in anyone about it without the risk of being outed and publicized and defamed. You pretty much know your career is on a dangerous path when adults don't get you hard anymore, and it doesn't even have to do with your work performance.

Could you imagine a really prestigious selfless humanitarian doctor or inventor or something lost all his credibility and income because he trusted someone with the burden of his condition and the person said "ew you want to touch little boys!?!?" and went around telling everyone he knows?

I think rather this cracked article is a step in the right direction.

40oz said:

Could you imagine a really prestigious selfless humanitarian

...though he preferred 15 yo girls, the "ideal age" of man according to some Hindu beliefs, and not little boys.

Remember, Westerners: there is an entire world East of Europe with different views on the argument. It's just the perverted Western mind that has associated pedophilia with creepy McDonalds clowns in magic vans.