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dg93

Baltimore erupts in riots after funeral of man who died in police custody

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Gez said:

No, you don't get it. When White people riot for White people reasons, such as "I don't want to stop buying my tea from the black market pay taxes", then it is celebrated as a glorious and admirable moment of history. What cause is nobler, and grander, than the defense of your own money?

When Black people riot for Black people reasons like "the police keeps murdering us with total impunity", then it's just petty vandalism because they're nothing but destructive looters. Defense of human lives is just a pretext for pillaging.


You're totally right, it's such glaring hypocrisy. Because throwing chests of tea into the ocean is a comparable form of 'rioting' to attacking cops by the dozen, setting fire to vehicles, and looting/burning buildings and subsequently slashing the firehoses when the firefighters arrive. It's so hypocritical, especially when all that is being done in the 'defense of human lives.'

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Do whites even riot outside of a soccer game? Even then it's a couple of smashed windshields and maybe a flipped police car before everyone realizes they have work in the morning and should probably get to bed.

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Ralphis said:

Except these look literally the same as the flash mobs. There are plenty of people protesting in Baltimore that aren't acting like uncivilized pieces of shit. But yea, I guess you can pretend that they're "fighting for rights".

But hey, I guess because I'm white I'm supposed to feel guilty and am not allowed to have any sort of opinion without the usual trump cards being pulled out. I guess if one is not being empathetic to people destroying entire parts of cities, then they are fundamentally devoid of empathy. Where is your empathy for the whities? Hopefully, one day everyone can reach your level of enlightenment Snakes.

I'm sorry, you're 100% right. They aren't "fighting for rights." They also weren't after. Michael Brown. They also weren't aftrr Rodney King. They also weren't after MLK.

Also, what is this about feeling guilty? I don't feel guilty, neither should you. You're not the one committing any sort of violence. I just fail to understand how the repeatedly documented instances of police brutality causing riots could be akin to a flash mob. Nor do I see how one wouldn't be angered by it. The only way black Americans have ever gotten any rights is by taking them via direct action, and from what I can tell from browsing the last quarter-century, that's still what it's going to take

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Snakes said:

fundamental lack of empathy.


Where's your empathy for the people who just had their businesses destroyed over something they had absolutely nothing to do with? Where's your empathy for the people who are now unemployed due to said destruction? You think that those businesses employed nothing but white people and all those businesses were purely white owned? Are you one of those people who think that all business owners are part of the "rich" and "privileged" class who can just afford to rebuild their lives no matter what? You know, for someone that is preaching "empathy" you sure do have quite a lack thereof. I am quite the opposite of you. I am shocked that there are people on this site that are condoning this shit. Any decent human being, regardless of their political persuasion, would never condone this shit, and certainly MLK would never condone it. Perhaps maybe you'll change your mind when there is a riot in your neighborhood and your house gets burned down.

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I like it when we the whites make up excuses for People of Color™ to act like animals. You know this is just wonton destruction for the sake of booty and violence, right?

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You act as though we're saying whites are different. They're not. They do this shit too. They just haven't had so many reasons other than hockey games lately. I have an idea: how about I use every sports riot as an excuse to treat all sports fans like shit and justify their mistreatment by others!

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Go ahead. Sports fans are all shit. We should take them outside to a chopping block and decorate Library fences with the end result(s).

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Gez said:

No, you don't get it. When White people riot for White people reasons, such as "I don't want to stop buying my tea from the black market pay taxes", then it is celebrated as a glorious and admirable moment of history. What cause is nobler, and grander, than the defense of your own money?

When Black people riot for Black people reasons like "the police keeps murdering us with total impunity", then it's just petty vandalism because they're nothing but destructive looters. Defense of human lives is just a pretext for pillaging.


Lets see.... were the colonists indiscriminately destroying their own cities and looting their own buildings/businesses? Or were they revolting from a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT imposing unreasonable taxation, blockades, and other forms of tyranny on them?

You're analogy is bullshit. White people get killed by police too, where are the riots for that?

doom_is_great said:

And this is why I buy guns.


Ditto

Snakes said:

Comparisons to flash mobs, dehumanist labeling of thugs, fundamental lack of empathy. Clearly, Doomworld is home to well-though individuals who have dealt with a millennium of systematic oppression and condoned murders. Yes, these individuals don't care - why should they fight for rights that they've only been given in an illusion? Instead, let us concern ourselves with the damaged white property and not the day-to-day lives of an entire people.


If it was your property that was being destroyed or your life at risk by these rioters, you would be thinking MUCH different than the way you are now. But instead you are race baiting against whites.... Because hey, it's the 'cool' thing to do! Amirite?

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GeckoYamori said:

Contrary to common belief, violent riots have plenty of historical precedents for instigating real tangible change.


Is this the tangible change you were referring to?

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2015/04/28/baltimore-riots-could-cost-citybillions-in-lost.html

http://time.com/money/3145128/ferguson-riots-recovery-economic-impact-unrest/

https://www.aeaweb.org/assa/2005/0109_1015_0203.pdf

Victor A. Matheson, said:

“People say, 'Look, I can always rebuild my house, but I can’t rebuild my life if I’m shot,'" said Matheson, a professor in the Department of Economics and Accounting at the College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Mass. “So fears about personal safety are one important thing. And I think the other thing is a real reluctance of businesses to come back into riot areas as opposed to businesses that are willing to come back into natural disaster [areas].”

William J. Collins and Robert A. Margo said:

In the 1960s numerous cities in the United States experienced violent, race-related civil
disturbances. Although social scientists have long studied the causes of the riots, the consequences have
received much less attention. This paper examines census data from 1950 to 1980 to measure the riots’
impact on the value of central-city residential property, and especially on black-owned property. Both
ordinary least squares and two-stage least squares estimates indicate that the riots depressed the median
value of black-owned property between 1960 and 1970, with little or no rebound in the 1970s. Analysis of
household-level data suggests that the racial gap in the value of property widened in riot-afflicted cities
during the 1970s.

cnn article said:

While the loss of local business may seem trivial next to the potential for additional violence — not to mention the civil rights and other legal issues at stake — there is a danger that rioting could disrupt the lives and livelihoods of Ferguson residents for years to come.

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I don't know what to do about police brutality or itchy trigger finger police officers or whatever. It's out of my range of control. But the logic of:

1. Victim is presumably killed by police officers
2. Set entire neighborhoods on fire
3. Restrain any emergency vehicles and personnel from attending to it
4. ????
5. Justice!

Is retarded. By the way, the victim was arrested on a series of drug charges. Not exactly a model citizen...

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40oz said:

By the way, the victim was arrested on a series of drug charges. Not exactly a model citizen...

I wasn't aware the police were allowed to brutally execute criminals before a trial, especially when dealing with a charge lesser than homicide.

Honestly, I really doubt anymore than a small minority of the protesters are behind these riots. I've seen pictures and videos of the protesters keeping people in line, and the usual story behind riots like these are a bunch of people of varying race taking advantage of the chaos to get away with shit, because they know full well that the media will put all the blame on the protesters. It actually isn't too much to expect the protesters to know violence will only hurt their cause - yet no one seems to think the people who don't care about the cause are the ones actually making trouble.

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Arctangent said:

I wasn't aware the police were allowed to brutally execute criminals before a trial, especially when dealing with a charge lesser than homicide.

Honestly, I really doubt anymore than a small minority of the protesters are behind these riots. I've seen pictures and videos of the protesters keeping people in line, and the usual story behind riots like these are a bunch of people of varying race taking advantage of the chaos to get away with shit, because they know full well that the media will put all the blame on the protesters. It actually isn't too much to expect the protesters to know violence will only hurt their cause - yet no one seems to think the people who don't care about the cause are the ones actually making trouble.


Exactly. A small group of people will start rioting and elected officials/media pant every protester with the same brush. You could have 5 protesters rioting and 50 peacefully protesting. The 50 peacefully protesting will be held just as accountable as the five who start roiting. Even if the peaceful protesters are not even in the same damn area. This has been an established pattern for many years now.

People are just to blinded by elected officials and the media to see it.

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Sure are a lot of words being put in my mouth in this thread.

doom_is_great said:

Where's your empathy for the people who just had their businesses destroyed over something they had absolutely nothing to do with? Where's your empathy for the people who are now unemployed due to said destruction? You think that those businesses employed nothing but white people and all those businesses were purely white owned? Are you one of those people who think that all business owners are part of the "rich" and "privileged" class who can just afford to rebuild their lives no matter what? You know, for someone that is preaching "empathy" you sure do have quite a lack thereof. I am quite the opposite of you. I am shocked that there are people on this site that are condoning this shit. Any decent human being, regardless of their political persuasion, would never condone this shit, and certainly MLK would never condone it. Perhaps maybe you'll change your mind when there is a riot in your neighborhood and your house gets burned down.

You just went through an entire hypothetical conversation in your head, didn't you? My feelings are thus: anyone choosing to focus not on the underlying issue of systematic violence against black Americans but on the side effect of the property damage are missing the point entirely. To be dismissive of these protests because of U.S. $$ is to diminish an entire race. My father owned a used car lot. He eventually had to shut it down due to a combination of recession and vandalism. So no, I don't think that these are overlord businesses at which the loss of a single store is nothing to care about. Give me a break.

Also, see below as far as the 'your neighborhood' comment goes because it tickles me pink.

the_miano said:

Lets see.... were the colonists indiscriminately destroying their own cities and looting their own buildings/businesses? Or were they revolting from a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT imposing unreasonable taxation, blockades, and other forms of tyranny on them?

You're analogy is bullshit. White people get killed by police too, where are the riots for that?

No, nowadays they riot over sporting events, numetal and other such justifiable reasons. Their riots are civilized, though. They only destroy some property, like technician said. Nothing too serious. Very ho-hum fires and destruction.

the_miano said:

If it was your property that was being destroyed or your life at risk by these rioters, you would be thinking MUCH different than the way you are now. But instead you are race baiting against whites.... Because hey, it's the 'cool' thing to do! Amirite?

I grew up in, recently moved back to, and have friends and loved ones who live in St. Louis. The Ferguson riots hit very close to home for me. Their lives, property, etc. was at risk. Do you know what though? They were all angry and on the streets protesting. Did I have concerns for their safety? Of course. Does that change my opinion on what happened here? NO. I will be sure to contact you for my biography seeing as you know my mentality, though. I'd like to have that insight.

40oz said:

Is retarded. By the way, the victim was arrested on a series of drug charges. Not exactly a model citizen...

... So? How does that any way, shape, or form make the handling of his arrest more justifiable? This thought process eludes me.

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Why do people really care about the looters? You can't have a riot without opportunistic looters taking advantage of it. But no, these are Black people who riot, and therefore the looting is all we gotta talk about.

Oh, yes, the victim. The person murdered by cops. Well, he was not an angel, you know? He was suspected of having committed a grievous crime, like stealing a t-shirt or selling duty-free cigarettes. Totally deserved his fate of being murdered by cops.

So let's focus on what really matters here. It's not the people who've been killed by racist cops that are then always absolved by racist jurors; those things are just human lives. The real tragedy is that stuff has been damaged or stolen! Money has been lost!

doom_is_great said:

And this is why I buy guns.


Congratulations, you're part of the problem.

Everyone has a gun -> cops risk getting shot when attempting to arrest someone -> people are killed by cops -> riots happen

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Gez said:

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.

Everyone has a gun -> cops risk getting shot when attempting to arrest someone -> people are killed by cops -> riots happen


Sorry, but I'm not going to accept that. A person can buy a gun and choose to be a reasonable gun owner. Just like a person can choose to buy a gun and be a irresponsible gun owner. Like many things in life it all comes down to choice. Blaming firearms for problems is like blaming cars for drinking and driving.

And just to be clear, I do not own any fire arms and probably never will.

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Fulgrim said:

Sorry, but I'm not going to accept that. A person can buy a gun and choose to be a reasonable gun owner. Just like a person can choose to buy a gun and be a irresponsible gun owner. Like many things in life it all comes down to choice. Blaming firearms for problems is like blaming cars for drinking and driving.


I 100% agree. People should have the freewill to be responsible gun owners.

40oz said:

By the way, the victim was arrested on a series of drug charges. Not exactly a model citizen...


The victim also had a switchblade on him during his latest arrest
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-arrest-documents-20150420-story.html

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I'm not sure why some people in this thread have been taking such a hard black/white (eh) line either way. Obviously the cops are not supposed to be executioners and they are corrupt throughout the country. There is serious reason for outrage on a near daily basis. On the other hand, I'm not sure how it should apparently justify the destruction of non-actors' property and livelihoods (it doesn't).

What does knocking out windows, stomping on people's windshields in the middle of standing traffic, and generally ruining regular people's things accomplish? For one thing, it is going to further drive prejudice even in some people who did not feel that way prior. For people who are seem to be so worried about justice, destroying innocent bystanders' shit doesn't seem very sound.

Also, the sports riot argument is a poor analogy because I doubt you'll find most rational people ever defending them. I doubt you'll ever find them defending any type of riot. They are very similar to this event though - a generally young group of idiots find an excuse to destroy a bunch of things for some type of bad reason, some get the ball rolling, group think sets in, and chaos ensues.

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the_miano said:

The thing is, rioting in general is never acceptable regardless of what color the groups of people are. I think people are forgetting that fact. But no, lets keep race baiting ;)

Because there's never a depiction of these people as thugs, animals or savages as so many love to claim those rioting in Baltimore or Ferguson or L.A. are, were, and will continue to be. Yet, the direct cause of the riots are always so trivial or unreasonable that they should be more aggressively portrayed as the problem. But no - the people who are being attacked are clearly the problem. I mean, they should be okay with being the primary target for years of violence because hey, that's just how it's always been ;)

Ralphis said:

What does knocking out windows, stomping on people's windshields in the middle of standing traffic, and generally ruining regular people's things accomplish? For one thing, it is going to further drive prejudice even in some people who did not feel that way prior. For people who are seem to be so worried about justice, destroying innocent bystanders' shit doesn't seem very sound.

Because regular people would rather just throw their hands up and let the problem go away than actually take action? The only reason the country is talking about this is because of the actions being taken. If the standard route would be taken, then we'd get a couple of 'key figures' (Sharpton et. al.) popping in to talk about how yeah it was a tragedy, and we should be upset, and then it would be forgotten. Instead, the whole nation's watching. The more and more this happens, which has been quite frequent of late, the more people are going to realize that these aren't just a series of 'oopsy-daisy what a sad coincidence' deaths and will be forced to swallow the bitter pill that there is still a problem with the system's core.

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Snakes said:

Because there's never a depiction of these people as thugs, animals or savages as so many love to claim those rioting in Baltimore or Ferguson or L.A. are, were, and will continue to be. Yet, the direct cause of the riots are always so trivial or unreasonable that they should be more aggressively portrayed as the problem. But no - the people who are being attacked are clearly the problem. I mean, they should be okay with being the primary target for years of violence because hey, that's just how it's always been ;)


OOOOOHHHH PLEASE I'm pretty sure people consider them to be thugs too LOL. If you destroy property and attack people/cops you are a thug AKA: CRIMINAL :-D

Snakes said:

Primary target for years of violence


Oh you mean the fact that black on black crime/homicide is sky high right? But nobody wants to bring that up.

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the_miano said:

Oh you mean the fact that black on black crime/homicide is sky high right? But nobody wants to bring that up.

I fail to see the point. So is the percentage of white-on-white crime. Crimes are generally relational and committed by someone the person knew. This is neither a revelation nor is it relevant to the issue at hand (hence, no one bringing it up). Also, I'm going to hedge a bet that those stats don't include instances involving a cop being aggressor.

Look, I can post a link too as if it were a punctuation mark to the conversation, but the fact is that it's not.

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Snakes said:

I fail to see the point. So is the percentage of white-on-white crime. Crimes are generally relational and committed by someone the person knew. This is neither a revelation nor is it relevant to the issue at hand (hence, no one bringing it up). Also, I'm going to hedge a bet that those stats don't include instances involving a cop being aggressor.

Look, I can post a link too as if it were a punctuation mark to the conversation, but the fact is that it's not.


The fact that you are talking about "primary target for years of violence" makes it sound like you are solely referring to whites killing blacks or specifically white cops killing blacks (which is basically what everyone seems to be talking about these days) but they are ignoring the fact that the black on black killings exceeds the amount of fatalities attributed to cops killing blacks. I believe that is far more of a problem that often goes overlooked.

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Snakes said:

Because regular people would rather just throw their hands up and let the problem go away than actually take action? The only reason the country is talking about this is because of the actions being taken. If the standard route would be taken, then we'd get a couple of 'key figures' (Sharpton et. al.) popping in to talk about how yeah it was a tragedy, and we should be upset, and then it would be forgotten. Instead, the whole nation's watching. The more and more this happens, which has been quite frequent of late, the more people are going to realize that these aren't just a series of 'oopsy-daisy what a sad coincidence' deaths and will be forced to swallow the bitter pill that there is still a problem with the system's core.

So, here's my two cents.
If rioters really wanted to show where the problem is, they would've torched the police station and being done already.

But I guess people have sense of self-preservation, so they compensate it by destroying public and private property?

If you want to make sense with rioting, direct your anger into something specific, don't turn it into chaos.

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Fulgrim said:

Sorry, but I'm not going to accept that. A person can buy a gun and choose to be a reasonable gun owner. Just like a person can choose to buy a gun and be a irresponsible gun owner. Like many things in life it all comes down to choice. Blaming firearms for problems is like blaming cars for drinking and driving.

And just to be clear, I do not own any fire arms and probably never will.


This has nothing to do with "a person can choose to be a responsible gun owner" and everything to do with "any person could be an irresponsible gun owner".

Go on. Imagine yourself to be an American cop. There is some thug-looking guy that you need to apprehend. As you approach him, he reaches for something in his pocket -- maybe it's a gun and you'll be dead if you don't react before the end of this sentence. Oh, so you shot him just to be safe. Turns out, he was reaching for his phone because he had just received a message, had not seen you were coming for him, and he had no firearms at all, and actually he was innocent of any wrongdoing, he just looked like the guy you were looking for.

And now there's a riot that has started because you killed a man because he might have had a gun. It doesn't matter how individually responsible any gun owner might be.

the_miano said:

The fact that you are talking about "primary target for years of violence" makes it sound like you are solely referring to whites killing blacks or specifically white cops killing blacks (which is basically what everyone seems to be talking about these days) but they are ignoring the fact that the black on black killings exceeds the amount of fatalities attributed to cops killing blacks. I believe that is far more of a problem that often goes overlooked.


Car crashes kill more people every year than terrorist attacks. But yet we have the War on Terror, with no corresponding War on Automobiles. We should be bombing General Motors and Ford instead of Al Qaeda and Daesh.

See were your logic leads?

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Arctangent said:

I wasn't aware the police were allowed to brutally execute criminals before a trial, especially when dealing with a charge lesser than homicide.


For all we know, the execution might have been as humanitarian as possible, with the officers saying things such as "please" and "thanks for your cooperation, sir", and using well-sterilized bullets.

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Car crashes kill more people every year than terrorist attacks. But yet we have the War on Terror, with no corresponding War on Automobiles. We should be bombing General Motors and Ford instead of Al Qaeda and Daesh.

See were your logic leads?


Fallacy #1: false equivalency.

Most car crashes are accidents. Unlike terrorism, few of the people involved intend to kill.

Fallacy #2 & #3: equivocation + appeal to emotion.

The war on reckless driving exists. It's called road safety, security traffic control, education, prevention, repression.

Fallacy #4: slippery slope

Questioning black on black crime in an Internet topic about people rioting because of a black man being killed by a white man is unlikely to lead to people bombing corporations.

Fallacy #5: red herring

Terrorists and cars are entirely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

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YOUR SCORE = 1/10
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This is unacceptably shoddy work. In starting from the assumption your conclusion is correct and working backwards to find a fitting theory, you are unable to present a convincing case for your argument. You must go back to the basics and apply yourself. Come see me after class.

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Gez said:

Car crashes kill more people every year than terrorist attacks. But yet we have the War on Terror, with no corresponding War on Automobiles. We should be bombing General Motors and Ford instead of Al Qaeda and Daesh.

See were your logic leads?



Uhhh what??

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