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Duker900
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Source: http://world.guns.ru/ -- None of the opinions in this are mine, I just posted theese for comparison.

OICW ammunition - HE ant TP (target practice) rounds for 20mm and KE 5.56mm NATO round

Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO (KE) and 20x85mm (HE)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt (KE), unknowh (HE)
Overall length: 890 mm
Barrel length: 250 mm (KE) 460 mm (HE)
Weigth: ca 5.5 kg empty; ca 6.8 kg loaded
Magazine capacity: 30 rds box (KE) and 6 rds box (HE)

The OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) is very ambitious project of the US military that should enter the service circa 2009. Initially, two teams were selected to made prototypes, but in the 2000 one team, leaded by Alliant Techsystems Inc., won the contract for further development. This team also consist of Heckler&Koch, Dynamit Nobel and some other companies.

The key idea behind the OICW programme is to increase effectivnes of the soldier and the kill probability. To achieve this, the OICW has three major components: the Kinetic Energy (KE) module, which is, in fact, modified Heckler-Koch G36 asault rifle, High Explosive (HE) module, which is a semi-automatic, magazine fed 20mm grenade launcher, and computerized day/night sighting system with integrated laser rangefinder and fire control unit. The system is advertized as being (or GOING TO BE) 5 times more lethal than current M16A2 / M203 combo.

The design of the KE module has nothing new behind it. The only one unusual thind is a set of buttons on the left side of the pistol handle. These buttons control fire computer and laser rangefinder, as well as selection of fire mode (KE or HE).

The HE module fires 20mm high-velocity grenades. These grenades had programmable fuzes, that could be set for Air Burst mode (grenade explodes at the specified range above the target; range is set via Fire Control module from laser rangefinder), or for Point Detonation (grenade explodes upon impact).

For obvious reasons the KE module could be separated from HE / Fire Control modules and used as a typical assault rifle with iron sights, but without buttstock. The separated HE module is completely useless since it uses KE module trigger to operate.

Now - some private opinions
The OICW, to be effective, relies upon computerized fire control module. Both KE and HE modules could be fired with iron sights, but this greatly reduces the overall effectivness of the system, so as soon as the batteries goes off, or the computer/optics/laser get any damage, you'd better throw the Fire Control module away... But it costs more than half of the whole system price, and that's some 5000 dollars (probably, much more), so guess what the soldier should do when the Fire Control module fails...
Another point is that 20mm programmable ammunition is no way the cheap round.
Third, the whole system is bulky and cost a small fortune...

Resume: In my opinion, the OICW is a weapon for so called "peace-keeping" operatrions - low intensivity conflicts, when US troops had always good supplies (of batteries and spare parts) and carry the weapons for limited time (forgot about weeks-long raids beyond enemy lines). It also costs too much, and now i'm doubtful about the plans to issue the OICW to every 4 soldiers in every Infantry squad of the US Army, USMC etc (the OICW is intended to replace M16/M203 combos and M249 SAWs, as well as some M16s or M4s).

======
Versus...
======

Data, M16A2.
Caliber: 5.56 NATO (.223 rem)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 1016mm
Barrel length: 508mm
Weight: 3.77kg
Muzzle velocity: 991m/s
Muzzle energy: 1712 J

Dissatisfaction in the "Battle Rifle" concept of US Army in the late 1950's caused an issue for lighter selective-rifle with smaller caliber. One of the such rifles offered for the US Military was AR-15, designed by Eugene Stoer at Armalite. This rifle was in fact scaled-down AR10, redesigned to fire new small-caliber cartridges .223 Remington (developed at Sierra Bullets; based on .222 Remington hunting cartridge). AR15 have same gas-driven rotary-bolt mechanism without the gas piston, as an AR10. Armalite sold this design to Colt, and when US Army adopted AR15 in 1957 under official designation of M16, all further modifications were made by Colt. Then-new M16s were sent to Vietnam, where many problems were found. Due to "dirty" design (powder gases vented directly into receiver) M16 were very prone to soppages and jams when insufficient cleaning was applied. Also polymer hanguards, grips and buttstocks were found too fragile for battle environment. In 1967 M16 was modified into M16A1 version. Improvements included a pushbutton on right side of the receiver, which was used to close the bolt in case of cartridge feed failure (so called "forward assist device") and some other changes, including brass defelector to prevent spent cases from hitting in the face of the left-handed soldier, and new 30 rounds box magazine instead of the original 20 rouns magazine.
In early 1980s M16 was modernised again, now into the M16A2. Major upgrade was new, heavier barrel with new rifling, to accept new cartridge SS109 with heavier bullet (designed in Belgium by FN). This upgrade gave the bullet fired from M16A2 more flat and stable traectory. Other upgrade was done to fire selector - new mode of fire - 3 round burst was added to single-shot and full-auto modes of the original M16. New dual-aperture peep-hole sight with bot elevation and windage ajustment was also installed, along with new circular-crossshaped handguard instead of the old triangular-crosshaped one.
Latest modification of AR15/M16 family is M16A3, which is exactly the same as M16A2 except for integral carrying handle, which is replaced by Picatinny-Weaver rail system to accept different types of scope mounts, laser-aiming devices etc. Carrying handle with iron sigths, similar to that of M16A2 also could be installed.
While being popular military rifle (adopted by nearly 30 countries, including USA, Canada, Israel and others), "civilian" and "law enforcement" clones of the M16 also gained significant popularity. Being marketed under many designatons (such as AR15, M15, XM15 etc.), those clones are manufactured by many US and other countries companies, such as Bushmaster, Armalite, Professional Ordnance and others. Those guns may reproduce original M16s in everyting excluding semi-auto trigger mechanism, or represent some improvements or tuning options (barrel lenghts and styles (light, heavy, match)), buttstock types etc.


edit: The oicw also sports its amazing 5 inch barrel, sucessfully proving someone with a longer barreled assault rifle will probably hit you before you can get a shot off, rate of fire doesn't really matter in thoose situtations, neither does the damn grenade launcher (20mm) I would much Perfer an M4/M16 + M203 then an O.I.C.W. Because of its sheer bulk and lack of proper iron sights

Last edited by Duker900 on 06-13-02 at 11:07

Old Post 05-29-02 01:52 #
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fodders
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Old Post 05-29-02 02:04 #
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Rellik
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I think more effective soldiers are soldiers who shoot more consistantly. Magazines should hold 100 rounds and soldiers should carry spare clips on their lower back for easy retrieval.

I've been playing paintball for about 11 years now, and volume counts. I am a very good shot, but when you combine a good shot with being able to put a high volume of projectiles in the air, the effect is devastating against lesser equiped people. It also helps with people who are not good at shooting, thus the term "accuracy by volume". And except for heavy weapons, personal weapons should NOT be full auto. At medium to long range full auto is utterly useless and just wastes ammunition. I can fire my paintgun 11 times per second if I need to and that's more than enough. Give a guy a hundred rounds in a full auto and he's done in seconds. Give him 2000 rounds and a semiauto and he can pound a target all afternoon.


Heh, we've played against soldiers from the local military bases, police, even a squad of SWAT team guys. They were always pretty confident they'll beat us, but end up getting totally pasted because the the sheer volume of rounds we put in the air changes the entire scenario. I think an army would be much more devastating if you gave them enough ammo and reliable weapons to crank out those rounds.

Urg, tired now. Brain not working no more.

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Old Post 05-29-02 07:15 #
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Little Faith
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That OICW thingy just sounds so cheesy.





Why in the 9 hells did I post in a gun jerk thread?

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Old Post 05-29-02 13:17 #
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Rellik said:
I think more effective soldiers are soldiers who shoot more consistantly. Magazines should hold 100 rounds and soldiers should carry spare clips on their lower back for easy retrieval.


Being a good shot is one step towards being a better soldier - but the most effective soldiers are the ones who can act at a critical time.

Special forces troops are given an exceedingly thorough education - they spend AGES on the firing range (compared to regular infantrymen), are often required to act independently (as opposed to regular soldiers who are trained to just follow orders) and go through much more realistic excercises that'll prepare them better for REAL combat situations.

In a hairy situation it doesn't matter if you're a good shot or if you are good at reloading and firing quickly if you're not accustomed to coming under fire or the like.

So imo, the best soldiers are the one's who are able to set aside their fears and emotions and just react to an impending danger.

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Old Post 05-29-02 15:10 #
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IMJack
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The capabilities of the OICW are just plain scary. A smart rifleman can used the combination of rangefinder and programmable-fuse grenades to eliminate any sort of cover a target might have. The key to that combo is the ability to launch a grenade that will go off about a meter behind one or more hiding enemies, thus giving them all a lethal shrapnel overdose.

Add the fact that by the time the OICW is deployed, the Land Warrior combat suite will also be in common use. With those two systems combined, the average rifleman will be able to kill people he can't even see without exposing himself to return fire. To be a more efficient techno-killer than that would require something out of Shadowrun. (Although a Smartgun link would be neat...)

The downside? Cost. The OICW and the Land Warrior suite will both probably cost several hundred grand, not counting ammo or power supply. The M-16 costs what, five grand? Ten grand?

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Old Post 05-30-02 04:55 #
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Livo
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Ok, the OICW has a number of fundamental errors, that really shouldn't have been overlooked- surely they must have had a few former soldiers look at it while they were designing it?

2. If the camera/thermal scope gets damaged, how are you going to aim the OICW? There's no backup iron sights, how useful will that be?
2. Field tests with Marines have shown that the OICW just isn't sturdy enough or can stand up to battlefield conditions...no, the Marines weren't trying to break the thing on purpose, they were subjecting it to the same trials as their personal weapons.
3. The laser designator to measure the range and thus the arming distance for the grenade is nice on paper, but combat is uncertain enough that you'll rarely have enough time to measure the exact range for the grenade and set the arming distance.
4. 20mm grenades? Not only is that another logistics problem (having to create and supply soldiers with a new grenade size just for the OICWs), but the 20mm grenade just isn't large enough, even if it can fragment greater than the 40mm grenade, it would still not have enough "punch" or effect than a larger size grenade would.
5. The OICW is incredibly expensive as mentioned above and it is too reliant on electronics. They aren't fully reliable and they add bulk and size to the weapon, which is another issue altogether.
6. It only has around 150mm of barrel. That's only good for about 150-200m range at best, or roughly what a SMG can do. If the special forces people wanted a weapon for CQB, they'd take a carbine or SMG. The weapon is supposed to replace the M16A2, which has a longer barrel and thus is more suited to short-medium range engagements.

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Last edited by Livo on 06-11-02 at 12:23

Old Post 05-30-02 08:28 #
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the US Army is making a transition from the m16 to the m4. i know specops and rangers use it and i believe airbourne do as well

Old Post 06-04-02 19:14 #
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We should switch to BFGs.

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Old Post 06-11-02 02:49 #
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I think most of America's allies will quake with fear at the prospect of US troops being able to fire faster

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Old Post 06-11-02 03:12 #
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dsm
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fodders said:
I think most of America's allies will quake with fear at the prospect of US troops being able to fire faster

They should switch to smartguns so that they don't hit their allies :-P

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Old Post 06-11-02 10:40 #
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Little Faith
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Would requesting that the US would sacrifice efficiency in order to secure the lives of non-US allies not merely be disruptive egoism on the side of the allies? (Of course we have to take pain to ensure the lives of US personnel but that's just because the USA can apply more diplomatic pressure).

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Old Post 06-11-02 12:29 #
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Yeh, although it only took 30 Americans killed in action in Somalia for them to decide to run away :)

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Old Post 06-11-02 16:58 #
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Talk to Heckler & Koch, they're the ones who're designing and building the gun. It's pretty much set that the US military establishment couldn't design its way out of a paper bag.

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Old Post 06-11-02 20:46 #
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darknation
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Darknation approves of friendly fire

Old Post 06-11-02 21:08 #
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Danarchy
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Dan dissaproves of friendly fire.

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Old Post 06-11-02 23:15 #
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dsm
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darknation said:
Darknation approves of friendly fire

Die!
/Me shoots dn in an act of friendly fire :-P

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Last edited by dsm on 06-13-02 at 16:00

Old Post 06-12-02 10:36 #
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[VVY] DARKNATION: No.

Old Post 06-12-02 16:45 #
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Duker900
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fodders said:
I think most of America's allies will quake with fear at the prospect of US troops being able to fire faster



well we could always be like the french, and use a FA-MAS

Old Post 06-13-02 10:49 #
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Livo
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fodders said:
I think most of America's allies will quake with fear at the prospect of US troops being able to fire faster


Be nice if they were more afraid of the US troops actually hitting them :p

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Old Post 06-13-02 11:41 #
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Danarchy
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US troops = Imperial Stormtroopers

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Old Post 06-13-02 23:35 #
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Livo said:


Be nice if they were more afraid of the US troops actually hitting them :p

The two are self inclusive

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Old Post 06-14-02 12:38 #
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dsm
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the_Danarchist said:
US troops = Imperial Stormtroopers

Except that US troops have cooler uniforms :-P

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Old Post 06-14-02 14:47 #
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