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Little Faith
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Does anyone have anything to say about the presen government in Denmark?

I know this is an awkward question but it seems that people from other countries have a lot of opinions on the subject.

So, come on guys, flame on! I know you like to.

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Old Post 06-04-02 11:07 #
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Zaldron
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I've never heard anything about Denmark at all. In my whole life. What's going on?

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Old Post 06-04-02 11:20 #
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Fredrik


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I know a little about it, but I could use a short summary to remember exactly what. I might have an opinion then.

Old Post 06-04-02 11:26 #
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fodders
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They have gone far right I seem to remember? Most of Europe is of the same frame of mind because of the refugee crisis. Me? I am slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan in this matter

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Old Post 06-04-02 11:59 #
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Zaldron
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fodders said:
They have gone far right I seem to remember? Most of Europe is of the same frame of mind because of the refugee crisis. Me? I am slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan in this matter

ROFL

Oh, so that's the issue? Mmh, I don't like it. Extremism is always bad.

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Old Post 06-04-02 12:17 #
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Little Faith
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The weird thing is that the refugee crisis is no real "crisis" per se. The real problem is that people believe that it is possible to board oneself up in one's little country without having to worry about the world outside. That is simply not possible today.

That's what the right-wing movement is about. People not wanting to see realities in their eyes.


To Fredrik: The present government in Denmark is made up by a coalition of three parties:

Venstre. Despite the name a liberalist party wanting a complete stop of new taxes as well as a more market oriented policy.

The Conservative People's Party. Having a program with more emphasis on social security (but in reality they just let themselves be hounded about by Venstre).

Danish People's Party (Dansk Folkeparti). A right-wing populist party fighting for an immigration stop as well as better conditions for the elderly (danish) people.


Following groups are growing mad at the present government for following reasons:

Economists: They worry about the government's sense of reality (or rather lack of). They are trumpeting about the complete stop for new taxes while trying to raise more money for the elderly (this is kinda stupid since part of the population over pension-age is growing steadily, the same isn't true for the part of the working-age population).

Quite funnily the private business sector: Preserving taxes at the present level and trying to gain more money for the elderly requires a new source of money.
These new money must come from somewhere, namely the education sector. Since big business in Denmark is dependent on employees with a high level of education any cuts in the education sector is not well seen.

Teachers who must struggle to improve education standards while facing a steady stream of budget cuts.

Employees in the hospital sector who must do the same. (They had similar gripes during the former government though).

Humanitarian and anti-racist organisations: Both are mad because the Danish People's Party are allowed such a massive airing, but the humanitarian organisations have a second reason: Denmark used to be one of the leading countries when it came to giving developement assistance. Often humanitarian organisations would use Denmark as an example when trying to convince other governments to shape up. Now, however the government is cutting in the developement assistance for arbitrary reasons, so now they have no shining example left. Of course nobody but losers listen to humanitarian organisations, do they?

Left-wing parties (but that was kinda obvious).

The rest of europe who fears a new outburst of racism that could seriously hamper the developement of the EU.

Germany and Sweden who fears that their own neo-nazis should begin to feel too cocky.

Conservative and Danish Peoples Party voters who feels that Venstre is neclecting their allies only furthering their own policy.

Venstre's voters who feels that Venstre has sold out by allowing the Danish People's Party in their government.

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Last edited by Little Faith on 06-04-02 at 15:21

Old Post 06-04-02 12:34 #
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fodders
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Little Faith said:
The weird thing is that the refugee crisis is no real "crisis" per se. The real problem is that people believe that it is possible to board oneself up in one's little country without having to worry about the world outside. That is simply not possible today.


Try watching the news each night with scenes of 400 young fit arab men storming the channel tunnel, exactly the same type of men that were responsible for WTC attack, they ain't refugees, they are too well fed, and fit, plus they have travelled accross Europe to get to the tunnel, refugees are supposed by law to present themselves to the FIRST safe country they enter, these do not do that

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Old Post 06-04-02 13:15 #
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Little Faith
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I do not agree with that opinion.

Syria and Jordan for example recieves lots of refugees from the Israel-Palestina conflit but their respective economies are unable to actually handle the strain. That is why they are so keen about the Israel-Palestina conflict being resolved.

You should also know that such policies would make the countries close to the crisis-regions recieve the brunt of the problem.

This is not always fair.

Also the discussion in Denmark is not so much about refugees as it is about immigrants, people who came here to work and their descendants, though there is a discussion about de-facto refugees.

I am no "halal-hippie" (a danish term used about persons who mindlessly defend immigrants' right to keep their own traditions).

I do believe that all immigrants should learn the language of the country as their second native language (i.e. they should speak it fluently). Also they should make steps to abandon those cultural values that would be hurtful in our culture such as ideas about "a womans' place", "family honor" as well as intolerant religion. Forced marriages and female circumsitions should be abandoned as well.

I am no opponent of immigrants signing an oath to the country they wish to live in either.


The problem with the present right-wing movements is that they prevent such steps because they demonize the foreigners preventing them from being integrated into the national culture.

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Old Post 06-04-02 14:04 #
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fodders
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The one's I disagree will allowing into my country are the one's that do not want to integrate, the Islamics that have even set up their own Parliament here in England, THERE SHOULD NOT BE AN INSLAMIC PARLIAMENT HERE, we have our own Parliament, if they do not want to accede to the laws here, then they can leave.
The so called refugees have travelled through Spain, France etc, and insist on going to Britain, well sorry but they are not welcome, we have a duty to accept refugees in fear of persecution at home, but not economic refugees. Look at the one's trying to get into Australia, they have left countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, passed through Indonesia the world's largest Muslem country to get to Australia, why? When they got to Indonesia they were safe, and in a Muslim country, why carry on to Australia? And why threaten, and some in fact carried out the threat, to throw their children overboard if they were not allowed into Australia? These are not people in fear for their lives, they are part of a Muslim attack on a country, infiltrate, out breed and take over is their ambition

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-04-02 17:14 #
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dsm
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Wouldn't it have been better to name this thread something like: "Current Right Wing Tendencies" or something a little more appropriate?

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Old Post 06-04-02 17:20 #
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Little Faith
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Sure I'd do it if I was able to. That would give it a wider audience.

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Old Post 06-04-02 17:34 #
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Little Faith
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fodders said:
The one's I disagree will allowing into my country are the one's that do not want to integrate, the Islamics that have even set up their own Parliament here in England, THERE SHOULD NOT BE AN INSLAMIC PARLIAMENT HERE, we have our own Parliament, if they do not want to accede to the laws here, then they can leave.
The so called refugees have travelled through Spain, France etc, and insist on going to Britain, well sorry but they are not welcome, we have a duty to accept refugees in fear of persecution at home, but not economic refugees. Look at the one's trying to get into Australia, they have left countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc, passed through Indonesia the world's largest Muslem country to get to Australia, why? When they got to Indonesia they were safe, and in a Muslim country, why carry on to Australia? And why threaten, and some in fact carried out the threat, to throw their children overboard if they were not allowed into Australia? These are not people in fear for their lives, they are part of a Muslim attack on a country, infiltrate, out breed and take over is their ambition




You actually believe in that bullshit about the islamic countries trying to take over the west?

Sure the jews were trying to take over Europe in the 30's.

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Old Post 06-04-02 17:38 #
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I have seen too many Islamic fundamentalist state, and I paraphrase from memory here:
"We will rule the world, we will not force people to become Moslem but they must accept us, and pay tax to us"

Koran 9:29 "Fight...until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection


War against the unbeliever is as central a doctrine and practice of Islam as the Virgin birth, the Trinity and Christ’s resurrection are central to Christianity
The Koran includes such wording as defining war as "a religious obligation for the faithful” … "fight and slay the pagans,” meaning non-Muslims … "the punishment of those who wage war against God and his Apostle.”

The Hadith, a collection of sayings from Mohammed, quotes him as saying there is no deed "which equals Jihad" in reward … that "a single endeavour of fighting in Allah’s cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it … that the only satisfaction a martyr could derive from coming back to earth would be "so that he may by martyred ten times because of the dignity he receives from Allah … "Know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.” … that "exposing their [the non-Muslims'] women and children to danger” is justified because as "the prophet replied, ‘They are from them.”

"The apostle Mohammed said, ‘Kill any Jew that falls into your power.’ Thereupon Muhayyisa leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him.”

Moderate Muslims have attempted to downplay the number of Jihadi Muslims by stating that they comprise only 1% of all Muslims worldwide. Such a statistic is hardly comforting, since it amounts to 18 million terrorists - enough to take over any country
The teachings of the Islamic holy books, the Qur'an (Koran) and Hadith, are absolute and authoritative and contain commands for external Jihad in its two forms of offensive and defensive military action. Offensive Jihad is the means commanded by Muhammad to spread the religion of Islam through the conquest of non-Muslim lands). Defensive Jihad must be employed to take back any Muslim land that has been conquered by non-Muslims (such as Israel.)

The belief system of radical Islam combines the Islamic call to external Jihad with the virtues of martyrdom, exegeting Qur'anic (Koranic) texts to justify terrorism and suicide bombing with the reward of eternal hedonism. Radical Muslims believe they are Mujahideen ("holy warriors of Allah"). They believe they must establish a purely Islamic state, the Khalifah, a fusion of religion and state which rigidly conforms to the laws (Shari'ah) set down by Prophet Muhammad. The radical Muslim believes that the solution for the problem of the Ummah (the international Muslim community) is through the establishment of a righteous Khalifah (a single state fusing together religion and politics governed by Islamic law) that will unite all Islamic lands and peoples and subjugate the rest of the world (non-Muslims) to Allah.

There have been a couple of African countries that have become Shari'ah in government, one in the news recently had sentenced a young woman to death by stoning, for infidelity, (you are guilty if your husband even just dreams that you were unfaithful!)

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-04-02 19:39 #
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Little Faith
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See, in that I do fully agree.

Death to the Sha'ria or any other dogmatic religious sets of arbitrary rulings.

But I simply refuse to believe that the immigration from the moslem countries is a ploy to take over the west in the name of the Qua'ran (did I spell it right). That simply sounds too cheesy for my liking (and a little bit too much like the stuff the nazis made us believe in).


Also Judaeism that both Islam and Christianity is based on has some tenets about the "chosen people" which, if interpretated "correctly", becomes an excellent war ideology. So if all played by the book the world would become a place of endless desolation, endless murder, endless mutilation, and endless piety. (Endless mutilation and endless piety, oh how i love the ring of it).

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Last edited by Little Faith on 06-04-02 at 19:57

Old Post 06-04-02 19:49 #
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fodders
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There's a fine city in england called Leicester, it is set to become the 1st city that has a non white majority. The headlines in The Times were "Leicester to be first city with ethnic majority". But they hadn't thought through what ethnic meant :)

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-04-02 20:12 #
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Little Faith
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Now you are making me scared again Fodders.


I used to respect your opinions, but this is just too damn scary.

Brrr.

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Old Post 06-04-02 20:22 #
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fodders
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Scary part is it's an Indian friend of mine who has opened a restaurant there, that told me about it :)

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-04-02 20:32 #
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Little Faith
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Well, that doesn't sound so weird to me. After all the indians have their trouble with religious unrest.

We constantly hear about the Gujarat province in the news.


I do understand that that fateful 1% of the islamic populace is a very serious threat indeed. But if we go about it by demonizing such a large amount of earth's populace (I am not talking about the fanatical 1%, but the entire population of the islamic countries) we will just make an already bad problem much worse.

You do know that it furthers the interest in fanaticism to have a good enemy. Now we must refuse to play the part, but I am afraid that it is exactly what we are about to do.

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Old Post 06-04-02 20:47 #
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dr_st
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Little Faith said:
Now we must refuse to play the part


And the problem will just go away, won't it?

Old Post 06-04-02 21:00 #
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Little Faith
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No! What I am afraid of is that we cultivate a fear and hatred of everything islamic. That would give fanatical movements the "perfect enemy" and then we'll never get rid of them.


The change must come from within the islamic society itself. It would be nonsense to believe that we could wipe out their religion, so we must convince everybody that we are not enemies of the islamic faith while still maintaining that we are NOT moslems ourselves. But at the moment everybody is strapping for war bcause of the 11. September attack as well as the Israel/Palestine-crisis. So the whole situation seems to be going to hell right now.

Well, perhaps it is the sacred goal of humanity to cause pain upon itself.

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Old Post 06-04-02 21:10 #
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Danarchy
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Hey, why don't we just close down the borders and section off the ethnicities.

I can just see thw world becoming some Orwellian nightmare in the next 50 years.

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Old Post 06-04-02 23:35 #
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Little Faith
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That's exactly what the european right-wing movements wants. Except they also want the borders intact.

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Old Post 06-05-02 00:07 #
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Fredrik


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This kind of development is bad and dangerous. Look what's going on in Italy right now. Look what could have happened in France. The trend must be stopped somehow. The problem is, in my opinion, that west is building borders to the east, making both sides more hostile towards each other, which is why more terrorist deeds certainly will occur in the close future. What the world needs is more tolerance, peace, love, understanding, etc...

As far as refugees of war are concerned, I can't see why any of them would be looking to "take over" the countries they come to. The reason why they ran away was because they didn't want to die in a war. They don't enjoy being refugees more than any racists enjoy foreigners "invading" their country.

If they practise their own culture and religion in the country they come to, I think that's just a good thing.

Open the borders, kill all hatred, people of the world unite! Yeah.

Old Post 06-05-02 00:24 #
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Little Faith
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Glad to see that there are other people on my side.

But then again, in Sweden people have experienced some of racism's ugliest visages. Like innocent children being beaten to death.

Here in Denmark we have yet to see such things (but i believe it will happen sooner or later).

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Old Post 06-05-02 00:40 #
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Fredrik


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Like innocent children being beaten to death.
I remember one specific case, but I know there are others...

Racism is the worst kind of evil on this Earth.

Old Post 06-05-02 00:46 #
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Danarchy
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Ich Bin Ein Auslander
by Pop Will Eat Itself



Listen to the victim, abused by the system
The basis is racist, you know that we must face this.
"It can't happen here". Oh yeah?
"Take a look around at the cities and the towns."

See them hunting, creeping, sneaking
Breeding fear and loathing with the lies they're speaking
The knife, the gun, broken bottle, petrol bomb
There is no future when the past soon come.

And when they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Or laugh through a glass eye as they rape our lives
Trampled underfoot by the right on the rise

"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander

Welcome to a state where the politics of hate
Shout loud in the crowd "Watch them beat us all down"
There's a rising tide in the rivers of blood
But if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence

If they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right

"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You call us..."....Ich Bin Ein Auslander

Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander
Ich Bin Ein Auslander
etc...

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Old Post 06-05-02 01:00 #
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Little Faith
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Pop Will Eat Itself are cool.


I would like to remind anyone who may have forgotten that this is a world of suffering and anguish where each fellow man hurts the other in their vain attempts to exert themselves and their ideas of superiority. The only reason that this isn't hell is because other things and motives exist too to disturb the grand picture.

Hey that sounds like a cool sig. Dammit i'll take it!

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Old Post 06-05-02 01:06 #
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fodders
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People are too scared to say what they know is happening because they fear the "nazi tag", it's totally different, the Jews in Germany where not trying to take over the country they were running the economy
Now you tell me why a 25 year old moslem man is running at a train to my country to get aboard illegally, hiding his face, throwing stones at cameramen? When he is in France, a perfectly civilised rich country with a large moslem population? He is safe in France, why are people from Afghanistan trying to reach Britain? The Taliban are not in power now, go home it's safe!

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-05-02 02:08 #
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Little Faith
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That particular 25 year old man does seem a bit fishy, but may I remind you that you are dealing with a very large and diverse group. That man was *******ely more the exception than the rule.

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Old Post 06-05-02 02:21 #
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fodders
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No I meant him as the rule, check any news coverage, sky cnn all show young fit moslem men storming the tunnel, hiding their faces as they leave sangatte

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1795000/images/_1795162_sangatte300.jpg

Eurotunnel claimed it stopped some 18,500 refugees trying to smuggle themselves into Britain in the first half of last year alone - some 200 a night - and that the vast majority of them were from the camp.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1520000/images/_1524746_calais2300.jpg

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You are my opponent, but not my enemy, for your resistance gives me strength. Your will gives me courage. Your spirit ennobles me. And, although I aim to defeat you, should I succeed, I will not humiliate you, instead I will honour you..For without you, I am a lesser man.

Old Post 06-05-02 02:44 #
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