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IMJack
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Pledge Declared Unconstitutional
Wed Jun 26, 2:36 PM ET
By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer


SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A federal appeals court ruled Wednesday that the Pledge of Allegiance is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and cannot be recited in schools.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a 1954 act of Congress inserting the phrase "under God" after the words "one nation" in the pledge. The court said the phrase violates the so-called Establishment Clause in the Constitution that requires a separation of church and state.

"A profession that we are a nation `under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation `under Jesus,' a nation `under Vishnu,' a nation `under Zeus,' or a nation `under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

The court, in the nation's first ruling of its kind, said that when President Eisenhower signed the 1954 legislation, he wrote that "millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."

The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court ( news - web sites) has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an "unacceptable choice between participating and protesting," the appeals court said.

"Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge," the court said.

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Old Post 06-26-02 21:08 #
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gatewatcher
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meh, i don't give a shit if i have to say "under god" during the pledge. what i realy hate is people who don't stand up for it. in school, there were kids who didn't,and guess what? they are of arab decent and probaly celebrate 911. i mean, if you don't pledge allegiance to the country that protects you, i say get the fuck out. have fun in the middle east shooting eachother in teh streets everyday instead of going to school or being online or playing sports or having fun etc etc.

i'm not racist towards them, i just hate them cuz they are anti american. i don't have any problem whatsoever with kids or people of arab decent that are also good americans. on the same token i also hate terrorists like the ones that blew up the building in oklahoma.

Old Post 06-26-02 21:22 #
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læmænt
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Yay!

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Old Post 06-26-02 21:24 #
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Doom II Guy
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I'm all for the United States, but I don't think anyone should be forced or looked down apon who does't want to say it (well, that goes for Americans). I personally don't say the pledge, but I stand up as a matter of respect. Period.

Old Post 06-26-02 21:33 #
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Spike
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It's about time. I only hope that the UK follows suit.

Keeping religion out of schools means that children are bought up with open minds, free of bigotry.

This is just the first step in abolishing religion and making the world a better place for everyone.

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Old Post 06-26-02 21:42 #
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Doom II Guy
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One of my friends once said If the whole world just had one religion, there would be no wars or hatefulness.

Old Post 06-26-02 21:44 #
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Danarchy
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Fuckin A! They had to do this 2 weeks after I finaly got out of school. Ah well, I never even stood up for the damn thing, for several reasons. My mom told me I never had to say the 'Under God' part anyway.

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Old Post 06-26-02 21:45 #
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darknation
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Spike said:
This is just the first step in abolishing religion and making the world a better place for everyone.
That statement is just as bigotted as me insiting you have to be catholic.

People have a choice. If they choose to worship god then you have no right to stop them.

Old Post 06-26-02 21:49 #
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Mad_AX666
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Darknation: Religion should be abolished because it causes wars and hatefulness.

(You are a prime example)

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Old Post 06-26-02 21:57 #
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GS-1719
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The lack of religion is the problem.

Old Post 06-26-02 21:58 #
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darknation
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Mad_AX666 said:
Darknation: Religion should be abolished because it causes wars and hatefulness.

(You are a prime example)

I've been to church twice in my life. Interestingly enough I still hate you.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:01 #
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gatewatcher
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the_Danarchist said:
Fuckin A! They had to do this 2 weeks after I finaly got out of school. Ah well, I never even stood up for the damn thing, for several reasons. My mom told me I never had to say the 'Under God' part anyway.

not saying under god is one thing. not standing up is another. by not standing up, you are disrespecting your country. i don't think thats right.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:02 #
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Spike
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Darknation - please understand that most wars in human history are due to differing religious opinions. This is not an imaginary statistic - it's a plain, simple, in-your-face fact.

September 11?
Israel/Palestine?
Nazie/Jews?
The Crusades?

The list can go on for quite some time. Please think about what you're saying.

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Old Post 06-26-02 22:03 #
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GS-1719
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9/11 was revenge, and a pure act of terrorism
Israel is purely political
Nazism is intolerant fascism
The Crusades was religious

Old Post 06-26-02 22:07 #
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darknation
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September the 11th - Bin Laden got the hump with amaerica because they turned against him.

Israel - Palistine: Palistine want's it's territory back.

WWII - The germans suffered a finacial slump, chewed a little sausage and decided to invade Poland.

The Crusades - Happened ages ago

Religion just looks like an excuse, or one factor amounst thousands in a modern diplomatic war.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:09 #
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gatewatcher
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GS-1719 said:
9/11 was revenge
Israel is purely political
Nazisim is intolerant fascism


you may be right but religion is at the very core of all of those.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:12 #
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fodders
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Spike said:
The Crusades?

The list can go on for quite some time. Please think about what you're saying.

Your analysis of the Crusades, fought during the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries (1000-1200) is determined by your viewpoint; ie, whether you were Islamic Turk or a Christian European. Also involved was the Byzantine Empire, made up of mostly Eastern Orthodox Christians, who wanted to keep everything like it was with free access to all religions to the Holy Lands. Then there were inhabitants of the Holy Land who saw everyone as an invader. There were four major crusades but many historians list as many as 12.

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Old Post 06-26-02 22:12 #
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darknation
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gatewatcher said:

you may be right but religion is at the very core of all of those.

No, human greed/hornyness/stupidity is at the core of all of these. Being stupidity incarnate you should know this.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:15 #
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GS-1719
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gatewatcher said:

you may be right but religion is at the very core of all of those.



American foreign policy is at the core of the first two.

The Nazi's used the Jews as a scapegoat for their propoganda campaigns.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:16 #
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IMJack
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gatewatcher said:
you may be right but religion is at the very core of all of those.
No it wasn't. Religion is an excuse, a vehicle, and a license used by both aggressor and defender/victim. Ditto race and class.

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Old Post 06-26-02 22:17 #
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gatewatcher
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IMJack said:
No it wasn't. Religion is an excuse, a vehicle, and a license used by both aggressor and defender/victim. Ditto race and class.

  • so islamic jihad against infedels isn't the cause of 911
  • israels wars aren't faught to defend zionism
  • and WWII, although political also, wansn't partialy fought because of anti-semitism


i don't buy that

Old Post 06-26-02 22:25 #
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darknation
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Yes, propoganda fed to stupid people works. Behold the proof.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:27 #
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gatewatcher
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darknation said:
Yes, propoganda fed to stupid people works. Behold the proof.

what you call propoganda most people call reality. we live in a time of religious unrest, deal with it.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:30 #
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IMJack
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gatewatcher said:
so islamic jihad against infedels isn't the cause of 911
Nope. They declared jihad because they wanted to chase the white man's influence from their home turf. Religion as vehicle.

israels wars aren't faught to defend zionism
Nope. Political. Religion as excuse.

and WWII, although political also, wansn't partialy fought because of anti-semitism
Exactly. The Jews were a scapegoat used by the Nazis. Religious difference as license. World War 2 was started because the Germans were hurting and bitter after losing WW1, and the Italians and Japanese were hungry for empires of their own.

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Old Post 06-26-02 22:32 #
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darknation
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gatewatcher said:

what you call propoganda most people call reality.

Which is my point dumbass. You can't tell the difference between propoganda / misinformation and fact.

Oh and you are retarded. That too.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:36 #
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darknation said:

WWII - The germans suffered a finacial slump, chewed a little sausage and decided to invade Poland.


Haha...stupid Germany.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:37 #
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gatewatcher
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IMJack said:
Nope. They declared jihad because they wanted to chase the white man's influence from their home turf. Religion as vehicle.
because the western ways of life are turning most muslims away from the old ways of practicing islam to newer more modern ways.

Nope. Political. Religion as excuse.

how is religion an excuse if thats what zionism is based on?

Exactly. The Jews were a scapegoat used by the Nazis. Religious difference as license. World War 2 was started because the Germans were hurting and bitter after losing WW1, and the Italians and Japanese were hungry for empires of their own.
well, the jews were blamed by the nazis for economic depression so you make sense in that they are a scapegoat and hitlers views on the jewish religion were distorted so you have changed my view on ww2.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:39 #
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darknation
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Doom II Guy said:

Haha...stupid Germany.

Wrong. Any country that has been reduced to bare bones twice and rose twice form the ashes to become one of the major powers in europe can hardly be stupid.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:39 #
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gatewatcher
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darknation said:
Which is my point dumbass. You can't tell the difference between propoganda / misinformation and fact.

Oh and you are retarded. That too.


DN, get over yourself. because you have an opinion on something doesn't mean that your opinion is the correct one. hence, i disagree with you and your "religion being a vehicle" opinion.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:41 #
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darknation
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I never said mine was correct. I said your opinion was retarded. I'm basing this on analylis of your previous arguements, which were also retarded. My future trend models reveal that this will continue to be the case until some friendly passing surgeon reverses your lobotomy.

Old Post 06-26-02 22:46 #
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