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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01



I'm still not convinced of what deep says (while theres any doubt I'd like to play it safe) but I still appreciate his input. He's doing this to try to help, not to stir up argument so can we keep the flames off the forum?
Exactly.

I really don't understand this "safe" thing though. Assuming for a split second there is some issue, what exactly are they going to do? To anyone? No business is going to tank a bunch of money - especially when there is no corporate entity!

Here's the "fear/scare" scenerio: There's going to be a knock on your door. Bang bang. You open the door and a dark-suited lawyer thrusts out his arm handing you a summons to appear in court. Never mind that this little act just cost them $5,000 in legal fees. Now multiply that times the number of participants. Lawyers cost around $150-$200/hr for vanilla work, much less international intrigue. Figure it out. Do you really think that is a realistic scene?

Here's an ealier post by -funcrusher- on this forum that succinctly wraps up the basic idea:

"I unerstand your concern, but am not too worried. A lot of games since DooM ripped off the ideas a lot more directly than is being done here. And those games were for profit, so you think id would have taken issue with them then. This project here, is not a mercenary thing, and (classic)DooM is no longer id's bread and butter. They released the source code for crying out loud. As long as the FreeDooM iwad relies on 100 percent original artwork, levels, etc. I don't think that there'll be much to worry a bout, conceptual simlilarities or not. "

Interestingly he observed that "conceptual similarities" are not an issue. Again, look at the world around you. How many commercial "conceptual similarities" do you see in just games? (If you look at the universe of same, it's mind boggling.)

One should not use fear and not knowing to make a decision. I really don't understand why you don't write and clear all this up if you are so worried. Especially the FREEDOOM name.

Old Post 09-29-01 16:19 #
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NiGHTMARE
Forum Legend


Posts: 5012
Registered: 05-00


Wasn't the reason why it was to decided to create enemies significantly different to the originals because of what happened to that Quake 3 Doom TC, Reborn?

They were creating new enemies inspired by existing ones, and had posted pictures of some of the creations, such as their Imp, Arachnotron, Revenant, etc. They even had different names than the originals.

Yet they got a cease and desist order from ID for their troubles. From what deep is saying, it sounds like ID didn't actually have any legal grounds for doing this. Is this the case or not?

Old Post 10-03-01 15:40 #
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Katgut
Post Out Of Order


Posts: 673
Registered: 05-01



Wasn't the reason why it was to decided to create enemies significantly different to the originals because of what happened to that Quake 3 Doom TC, Reborn?

They were creating new enemies inspired by existing ones, and had posted pictures of some of the creations, such as their Imp, Arachnotron, Revenant, etc. They even had different names than the originals.

Yet they got a cease and desist order from ID for their troubles. From what deep is saying, it sounds like ID didn't actually have any legal grounds for doing this. Is this the case or not?


Yes, that's most likely the reasoning behind it. (It's also why the majority of the models of Doom/Doom 2 monsters look like ass.)

deep: There is a difference between slight stylistic differences (i.e. the original Doom imp vs. a man-height brown humanoid figure with spikes that throws fireballs which doesn't use the same graphics) and more substantial differences (as with your example of Mickey Mouse and Mighty Mouse - I haven't seen Mighty Mouse in a long time, so I'd be going off of memory on what differences there are). Personally, I wouldn't want to be trying to figure out where the line is between "these are different" and "these are similar, copyright infringement".

And as for the original-work-as-a-copy... there are laws against that, as well - they deal with FRAUD.

Old Post 10-07-01 15:11 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01


I didn't reply to the Reborn TC speculation since I'm not familiar with it. Was it a commercial venture?. Could be they just bullied them (a common legal tactic)?

.. "these are different" and "these are similar, copyright infringement".
Very simple. Specifically, copyright infringement means COPYING. Electronic variations arise because it's easy to recolor, but that is still considered a copy. It's primarily the actual placement of pixels that counts, not the "color" values. (Plus, if one can prove electronic distortion, then of course it's also considered a copy).

Make sure it's drawn by HAND, scanned in and not a "duplicate" of the original (just to make sure). Keep a proof of how one created it - the hand drawing would be just superduper! There are other ways too, I just gave one that's foolproof.

And as for the original-work-as-a-copy... there are laws against that, as well - they deal with FRAUD.
I have no idea how that relates to copyright and trademarks - the topic under discussion. Fraud is a topic twist that is not valid in the context.

Fraud is a completely different area. So although one can make an original copy of a dollar bill (and not have a copyright violation), it is -fraud- to pass one off for material gain. Similarly, one can copy a famous painting, just don't try to pass it off as the original. However, BOTH of these -copies- are protected by copyright law as original works. And they can be sold legitimately in their own right for what they are.

As far as mice - there are other mice. Atomic Mouse = Mighty Mouse), Tom and Jerry (sort of a mix). Then the various cats and dogs to consider. Stylistic differences and all that are just fine thank you. If one looks around, it's quite common to see popular concepts adopted in a slightly different "style". The world would be quite dull if that couldn't be done:)

Viva FreeDOOM

Edit: (Oh by copy, I meant an original creation, not a machine version. FYI, it used to be illegal to make a machine copy of money that was the same size as the original - on the fraud principle, but that was changed a few years ago.)

Old Post 10-07-01 18:56 #
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