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Macro11_1
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Well I have been doing this map in my spare time... been wanting to address the problems the old version had, such as the confusing shoot switch.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_...TczMzMxMWI2MTU2

Progress :: 80% ish'

Screenshots ::
Coming some time soon.

ToDo List ::

    - Monsters & Traps, Teleport out of pit, general game-play & visuals
    - Lighting
    - Fix crushers
    - Fix layout & make less linear
    - Find theme and remove the god damn caves.


[UPDATE]
So,I have finished the map visually, now all I have to do is add in monsters, moving parts, level flow, items and just general gameplay-e" stuff...

I am just wondering... is the level architecture too detailed\different for Free-DooM?
Should I take out the Massive Combination door?
What should I limit my self to in terms of weapons, monsters, & power-ups considering its slot in the Wad?

Just in case people are not sure, I have updated the link. I will post screenshots within the week!

[Update Dec 3, 2011]
removed 1 lift secret, changed another to be easier to spot.
removed lift lines. Put them on the wall instead.
added a way around combo door.
added secret shoo-table wall.

Last edited by Macro11_1 on 04-20-12 at 10:07

Old Post 03-12-11 08:42 #
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Catoptromancy
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I thought the old one was pretty good. The first in-game demo shows how to open red key bars. Your map is pretty much a complete remake it seems and not just a few fixes. I am sure it will be good, but map04 has been around a long time with a few small recent fixes.

Old Post 03-15-11 05:51 #
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Macro11_1
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Large Bump, see first post.

Old Post 10-31-11 07:06 #
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wesleyjohnson
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I know Map04 has been worked on, but I too have some things about it that I have had an itch to fix. I would like to see this new version.

Old Post 11-01-11 01:53 #
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Macro11_1
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Hit the download link...
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/31...ber_30_2011.zip

Old Post 11-01-11 02:12 #
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RjY
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- It looks good but I think you might have overdone the borders on sectors style of detailing, they all had 'em ;-)

- I realise it's not finished yet, but it needs light variation. Most of the map is all one light level, which looks drab.

- The part with the crushers and 30-second bars might work but it might be irritating too depending on how it ends up playing when there are monsters in the map.

- I liked the slime trap although it was predictable.

- I see those three lifts with the confusing switches and line triggers are still there. I don't think I've ever had the patience to properly figure out how to get the secrets from that part.

- The new room with the six lift switches that have to be pressed in the right order was frustrating. I eventually got through it by turning on the map cheat where I could see numerals on the floor!

Anyway that's just what I think, ignore or heed as you see fit.

Old Post 11-01-11 20:32 #
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Macro11_1
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RjY said:
stuff


Yeah, I don't know, I just like boarders... its like outlining a drawing, It really makes things pop...

I like to save the lighting till the very very last part... but I had forgotten about it so thanks for mentioning it :)

Do you think speeding up the slow crusher would help?

Yeah, I left those 3 lifts... its one of those interesting secrets people can figure out for the challenge :P

The numerals are actually activated by a secret... I think that I should probably take that out though and make them activated by default...

Thanks for the look & input RjY!

Old Post 11-02-11 02:23 #
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wesleyjohnson
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Three lifts with unseen line triggers on the floor.
Yea, that was one of the two things that was bothering me.
Short version: I do not like being trained like a rat to push buttons and run a course in just the right way, to get the prize. And the player cannot discover that prize, or what to do to get it, without cheating with an editor. Lastly, it never made any sense as a way to create a building, it is pure contrived-puzzle
(so much contrived-puzzle that it breaks the Doom world immersion).

(And before someone tries to say all puzzles are contrived, an example: You can setup children's playground equipment to allow choices, or you can set it up so they are restricted to play only one way. They will learn to hate the later because it is mentally stagnating. Like finding hidden rooms by nose grinding every wall in the level.)

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 11-02-11 at 22:02

Old Post 11-02-11 21:42 #
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Macro11_1
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First off, the lifts are not coming out of the level, nor is the new door. I will make it as easy to figure out as I can, but they will not come out of the level.


wesleyjohnson said:
...
Yea, that was one of the two things that was bothering me.
Short version: I do not like being trained like a rat to push buttons and run a course in just the right way, to get the prize. And the player cannot discover that prize, or what to do to get it, without cheating with an editor. Lastly, it never made any sense as a way to create a building, it is pure contrived-puzzle
(so much contrived-puzzle that it breaks the Doom world immersion).



The prizes here, being completely optional.... are secrets. Would it be better if I made them not secrets and just put some sort of power-up in there and a hidden message on the floor saying "super-secret" or something? The player can discover through trial and error how to get the "prize" if s\he so chooses... with out looking at the editor.
No, it does not make sense to create 3 lifts in a building this way, and yes it is a purely contrived puzzle... but your statement about it breaking the "DooM World" immersion I believe to be wrong. As a construct, does it make any more sense than anything else one sees in the original ID IWAD? How about a donut type effect? How about acid in random buildings? et. all.

Feel free to post more as I find it to be an interesting topic.



(And before someone tries to say all puzzles are contrived, an example: You can setup children's playground equipment to allow choices, or you can set it up so they are restricted to play only one way. They will learn to hate the later because it is mentally stagnating. Like finding hidden rooms by nose grinding every wall in the level.)



First, I suggest you should to say you are using playground as an allegory for doom level design or not use it at all... because I nearly mistook what you said, sorry.

Well, the option literally is:
1. get the secret; 2. dont get the secret.;
As it is with any secret. It does not hinder ones ability to complete the level for the sake of reaching the end. It does however hinder ones play for MAX runs, which is a self inflicted play-style. Should I as a designer be forced to restrict my self according to a subset of players self imposed restrictions?

Of course I could be getting this all wrong, in which case I am sorry.

I am thinking of making an alternate route around the combo door so players have an "option" to get around the door. That way, the only forced parts are secrets. Does that help?

But thank you for the reply, wesleyjohnson, I do like the input and I am listening :).

Old Post 11-03-11 01:19 #
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wesleyjohnson
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Some of the original doom levels have significant flaws too.
I try to strive for something closer to their stated objective, and try to improve the immersion in the doom world.
I do not especially think that someone is going to follow my design guidelines, but I am willing to point out some of the more irritating stuff (after that it just grew).

The problem that I had with the lifts on that level:
1. The players cannot discover that particular secret room while playing the level.
The secret room cannot be seen in any normal play, not even by poking around or searching for it.
2. I had to nose grind the entire level in a fruitless search, or give up early and cheat, which leaves this player with a negative reaction right there. It has become a consideration to the player to put a different texture over a secret door. This is similar.
3. Even after using an editor to find the secret, in 20 tries, I could not run the switch maze fast enough to get to the prize. I think it is only playable using always-run enabled or having mouse run (thus can run very fast). I know that holding the move-forward key down hard is not fast enough to get there in time. I had to use noclip to get in. Requiring extra fast running is much like requiring jumping.
4. Before the player knows of the secret room, there is no logical reason to run that strange switch pushing maze to go backwards through the lifts. There are too many strange illogical constructions in wads, that this one does not stand out as needing to be searched further.
5. Those walkover triggers on the lifts seem to be positioned just to frustrate the players attempts. I would eliminate the walkover triggers entirely, the switches are adequate.
6. This secret room needs some clue that there is something to be found at that spot. A different texture, a visible space between the lift and the wall, an ladder down, an electrical texture in a recess extending down below the lift, a bit of the door being visible when the lift first goes down, being able to see the secret area from an inaccessible direction, but it needs something that could be seen in normal play.


In general:
A. I consider lit arrows on the floor, and signs, to be worse than having to ignore a secret room. That is too much help and really unbelievable.
B. If a player has to search for a missed secret room, I feel it should be possible by normal play movement, or a few attempts to get to places that were skipped, or a previously seen place thought unattainable.
C. I think the player should feel they have a chance to find it, and have some idea of where to concentrate their attempts.
D. I especially do not care for any puzzle that is solved by try and die.
E. When the only way to solve some puzzle is to try the same path over and over and over again, I wonder why the designer thought that repeating the same movements to such an extreme, would be more fun than playing the next level.

Old Post 11-21-11 06:04 #
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Macro11_1
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Thanks again for taking the time to reply, and sorry for the late reply.... I am just busy trying to finish up some classes.

Foreword: sorry about the quote heavy post and the length of it, I just wanted to respond thoroughly


wesleyjohnson said:
Some of the original doom levels have significant flaws too.
I try to strive for something closer to their stated objective, and try to improve the immersion in the doom world.

Ok, that's what you try to do and like to see in wads.


I do not especially think that someone is going to follow my design guidelines, but I am willing to point out some of the more irritating stuff (after that it just grew).

Again, thanks... I'll try my best to follow your advice.

The problem that I had with the lifts on that level:
1. The players cannot discover that particular secret room while playing the level.
The secret room cannot be seen in any normal play, not even by poking around or searching for it.

I hopefully have fixed that issue by making the floor inconsistent in that area, indicating a possible secret.

2. I had to nose grind the entire level in a fruitless search, or give up early and cheat, which leaves this player with a negative reaction right there. It has become a consideration to the player to put a different texture over a secret door. This is similar.

Is this still about the lifts? If so, then I think I have solved it... if not, then can you be more specific?

3. Even after using an editor to find the secret, in 20 tries, I could not run the switch maze fast enough to get to the prize. I think it is only playable using always-run enabled or having mouse run (thus can run very fast). I know that holding the move-forward key down hard is not fast enough to get there in time. I had to use no-clip to get in. Requiring extra fast running is much like requiring jumping.

You caught me, I always have 'always-run' toggled. While I can see how it would be like jumping, it is not actually as bad because it is not bug induced and it is in the original game and is standard practice by many by now. When striving to build a secret, I try to make them un-orthidox by comparison to the rest of the game-play of the level, I mean would it be secret if you just had to do what you already were doing in order to obtain it? I think a player should be rewarded for stepping out side of his box. I don't map purely for entertainment purposes, but I will elaborate on that later.

4. Before the player knows of the secret room, there is no logical reason to run that strange switch pushing maze to go backwards through the lifts. There are too many strange illogical constructions in wads, that this one does not stand out as needing to be searched further.

Well, I see this as just a reiteration of your first point, so I'll tell you some of my preferences. If you can't tell by my map... I like dynamics in Wads & in games in general. I like puzzles and I like to figure out how things work. I am a person who likes those Chinese finger trap puzzles and such. I find it natural to want to explore these things, and though by now in my life it should not surprise me that others do not share this interest... I am still 'taken-aback' when I find out.

Sorry about this next part, I just feel it needs to be said.
I don't like this trend I have been seeing... the "once you've seen one you've seen them all" mentality. It seems to me that people who like mapping could be discouraged by this. Your not the only one I have seen saying this, and it could just be me. :P

5. Those walkover triggers on the lifts seem to be positioned just to frustrate the players attempts. I would eliminate the walkover triggers entirely, the switches are adequate.

They were not, I assure you. I just like being able to activate a lift with out hitting a switch, and I was just wanting the lifts to be interesting. Its been fixed by putting the switches on walls near the lifts.

6. This secret room needs some clue that there is something to be found at that spot. A different texture, a visible space between the lift and the wall, an ladder down, an electrical texture in a recess extending down below the lift, a bit of the door being visible when the lift first goes down, being able to see the secret area from an inaccessible direction, but it needs something that could be seen in normal play.

Again, I think I have fixed this, but feel free to tell me if you don't think its obvious enough.

In general:
A. I consider lit arrows on the floor, and signs, to be worse than having to ignore a secret room. That is too much help and really unbelievable.


I know Ego-raptor would agree with you... :P


B. If a player has to search for a missed secret room, I feel it should be possible by normal play movement, or a few attempts to get to places that were skipped, or a previously seen place thought unattainable.

C. I think the player should feel they have a chance to find it, and have some idea of where to concentrate their attempts.

I thought that always-run was normal movement. Is this general, or did you have problems with other secrets?

D. I especially do not care for any puzzle that is solved by try and die.

Which puzzle was this? Or... oh your just saying these are your general rules for levels.

E. When the only way to solve some puzzle is to try the same path over and over and over again, I wonder why the designer thought that repeating the same movements to such an extreme, would be more fun than playing the next level.


Some people legitimately enjoy that I believe. For example, here on doom-world many regulars speed run levels. In many flash games there are timed sections or skill based sections. Track-mania is a game where you race against the best time on tracks. There are speed scrabble competitions in various places... hell even crossword competition.

Now why they enjoy it varies across the board... but its there...

In the case of my map, maybe I am just missing what people enjoy... but that's why I am here... to learn. So thanks again, to you and anyone who helps me in that endeavor.

Last edited by Macro11_1 on 12-03-11 at 23:15

Old Post 12-03-11 23:03 #
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wesleyjohnson
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Cannot download your level, the SpeedyShare link is stale.

I don't think that a different floor texture is going to be much of a clue. There are so many different floor textures already and they have no such meaning, so why should a player suspect that this one means something like that. There are few other secrets like that, and no
usual floor texture that indicates it.

From my view, what would work best is being able to see just a little bit of that secret room, or at least some hole down in that area, perhaps an outline of a slight depression around the door that just shows a few inches when the lift goes down the first time. It is then directly implied that there may be something down there.

Always run: I do not use auto-run because I feel it is like any of the other cheats. It is abnormally fast.
For this secret, you can assume I was holding down the RUN key too, which should be the same as always-run, and still could not make it in time, mostly because of having to navigate around those trip-lines.

Old Post 12-04-11 04:00 #
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Macro11_1
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Ops, sorry I hadnt updated the link yet :P. I'll do that now. When its updated, ill show it as an edit in this post and the first post.

[Edit]
Updated: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_...TczMzMxMWI2MTU2

Last edited by Macro11_1 on 12-04-11 at 04:50

Old Post 12-04-11 04:36 #
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wesleyjohnson
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I am curious as to how you are going to get this level submitted.
I have new level maps sitting in doom/incoming since April. Do you have GIT commit privileges, or what?

I really cannot figure out where "once you've seen one you've seen them all" came from, so I will assume it is due to mis-interpretation of something I wrote and ignore it. One of my biggest irritations with some levels is after I have explored something, sometimes with a level editor, to figure out how it works, only to find out it is just another runaround, with no reason behind it other than to run the player around.
To make it worthwhile exploring, there has to be something interesting to find (more than just triggering some door, its not very interesting exploring anymore if that is all there is to find). Example: running the player through the customary maze to find a switch has gotten stale, wandering through a power plant to find the power switch to the elevator is much more interesting.

My maps are MAP09 and MAP13, from that you guess at some of my level design preferences. There is one runaround, but that is only if you use the teleporter experiment.
But the latest and best MAP09 and MAP13 are stuck in incoming !!
If you can figure out what that machine with the four vertical silver posts does (MAP09), then you know a bit about mining.

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 12-06-11 at 01:27

Old Post 12-06-11 01:00 #
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wesleyjohnson
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I got the FD_Map04.wad and played it, and explored it.
All the following is "in my opinion", and the sentences are short and sour, just to save space (not trying to be rude, just consise).

An interesting new look.
I assume the monsters and things are not placed yet.
Does this part of the tech-base have any function (besides trying to kill intruders)?

On red key button, need some impassable flags to keep monsters and players from climbing on the button (they look silly doing that).

The crushers are not likeable.
It seems that 7 crushers in one corridor is a few too many, and no rational as to why they are there (is this where they crush their peanuts or something). Crushers which are fatal need some warning, as a consideration to the player.

The crushers are too difficult for Map04.
This has no adjustment for play difficulty.
What are (Difficulty=EASY) players going to do.

I have not gone though without getting crushed 4 times, as it takes too long to wait for the perfect timing.
Need to remove those walls blocking the safe area, so the player can make it in some reasonable time, even when slow and clumsy.
Safe area needs to be larger, so beginners have some chance.

Would like to see some post or little wall remain, as a stop, so player can run into safe area at full speed in direct line.
Then they can move sideways to line up on the next safe area.
Perhaps the safe area can be a recessed pit or something, so it
is clear and visible.

The first crusher is learn-by-die and insta-trap. It starts so low that there is no chance to survive it, and it is placed exactly where I would stop and look around the corner. So I quickly get killed for being cautious.

The first and third U-crusher (and maybe more) have HOM on the inside,
missing textures.


Still have one of those inexplicable, got to shoot-the-switch things
in there, but now it is a wall so the player has no clue that it has to be shot, or that it is a switch.

The floor that turns into killer slime is learn-by-die and insta-trap.
The player dies before they have any chance to solve it.
The ledge at the end is too high to escape the slime. You must die several times before learning that you can jump from the last mound.

Some buttons on the second lift do not work The button on the brown
metal to the third lift does nothing, its a walkover instead of a
switch. One button lowers the previous lift.
The opposite button opens the cave entrance.

On the third lift the button to the next section (6 button room) does
not work, it is a walkover instead of a switch.

The hidden room is adequately visible. Even more so than I was
suggesting, it is hardly hidden anymore.

The six button door has HOM on the inside. I did not make it
completely through and it trapped me in the door.

The cave area has a transporter that I cannot get to without jump-up or cheating.
The ledge is too high to step up.
If a player falls into the center, there is no way out.
There is no way to explore some of the farther corners.

I assume the last room is not done yet, as I could not find an exit.

I think that FreeDoom prefers that levels not be signed (from remembering some past posts).

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 12-10-11 at 01:36

Old Post 12-10-11 01:25 #
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Macro11_1
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wesleyjohnson said:
I got the FD_Map04.wad and played it, and explored it.
All the following is "in my opinion", and the sentences are short and sour, just to save space (not trying to be rude, just consise).

An interesting new look.
I assume the monsters and things are not placed yet.
Does this part of the tech-base have any function (besides trying to kill intruders)?

The crushers are not likeable.
It seems that 7 crushers in one corridor is a few too many, and no rational as to why they are there (is this where they crush their peanuts or something). Crushers which are fatal need some warning, as a consideration to the player.


Ok, I put in a warning, but I am not taking them out. Monsters arn't placed, I just wanted to throw some in the beginning just to check it out. No, this techbase does not have any other function other than killing intruders... Honestly, if you play "the focus" on doom2, which this was inspired from... loosely. Does that have any function? If this techbase were to have a "function" it would be to secure later levels.



Still have one of those inexplicable, got to shoot-the-switch things
in there, but now it is a wall so the player has no clue that it has to be shot, or that it is a switch.


Its also a secret. It has barrels in front that the player might shoot and accidentally hit the wall... then I am going to put a monster behind it.



The floor that turns into killer slime is learn-by-die and insta-trap.
The player dies before they have any chance to solve it.
The ledge at the end is too high to escape the slime. You must die several times before learning that you can jump from the last mound.


I havn't put in any health or anything in the map yet so it wont be as bad as it is now. I will put in health packs to guide the player to the stairway. I also put in warnings in here.



Some buttons on the second lift do not work The button on the brown
metal to the third lift does nothing, its a walkover instead of a
switch. One button lowers the previous lift.The opposite button opens the cave entrance.On the third lift the button to the next section (6 button room) does not work, it is a walkover instead of a switch.

yeah, .... my bad :( I fixed all that I think.



The hidden room is adequately visible. Even more so than I was
suggesting, it is hardly hidden anymore.

Yeah, unintended side effect... I changed it so you can't see in there anymore, because that was causing the lift to lower to the floor... making it annoying to get through the lifts. Now the bars are on one switch, and the switches are all in the same room making it way easier...



The six button door has HOM on the inside. I did not make it
completely through and it trapped me in the door.


Fixed, also made it so you can switch your way out of there.



The cave area has a transporter that I cannot get to without jump-up or cheating. The ledge is too high to step up.

Really? I can.... there should be stairs if you looked around...


If a player falls into the center, there is no way out.

Fixed.


There is no way to explore some of the farther corners.

Which farther corners? The ones in the new cave area? I am planning on making those a chain of teleporters access by the lift teleport.


I assume the last room is not done yet, as I could not find an exit.

no its not, sorry. very close to having the layout done... I just had to figure out the exit to my map... for some reason that's always hard to do **.


I think that FreeDoom prefers that levels not be signed (from remembering some past posts).

Ah, well I will look in to it I guess.. thanks for the heads up, also again thanks for the test... your feedback has been invaluable. :)

Old Post 12-10-11 23:46 #
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wesleyjohnson
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I finally found my way around the edge of the cave room, by accident.
I played using DoomLegacy and it is too trivial to just go up to one of those ledges and click the right button to jump up.
Do not care for that pillar that looks like an arrow. I think anyone who gets that far will know which way to run/jump. That is not where
I got lost.
I think it would help if the upper level was higher, around eye level. Then it would not lead one to look for steps or keep trying to step up.

Old Post 12-14-11 00:18 #
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The problem with the shoot-the-wall switches is that good players do not miss. When I play, I consider missed shots to be wasted ammo so I take care to not miss (many levels are so tight on ammo you may have only a dozen bullets left at the end). So our reward for being careful on this map, is to be left with an unfound secret and we now have to nose-grind the entire level to find the door. Of course this won't work because in this case you have to shoot-the-wall, so we have to go around and shoot suspicious walls (wasting ammo). That is why I give up and cheat with the level editor, or wander about using no-clip.

Old Post 12-14-11 22:34 #
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Catoptromancy
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It is hard to test map without monsters. The trapping bars I assume will follow with a small horde of something, otherwise they are a waste of time.

The multilift secret can be reached through the bars on other side. Just got around to playing but cannot really comment on map without gameplay(monsters) or powerups.

I played in boom202 and the multilift actually seemed broken.

MAC -- Free DooM -- Map 04 -- December 04, 2011.wad, used this version.

I still like many aspects of the old map.

Old Post 12-15-11 00:34 #
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That cave does not seem to fit the rest of the level, like it was stuck on just to have a cave. I think you would be better there staying with your theme. I am not sure what your theme is, as like you say the level has no function other than to kill, but whatever your theme is you should stick with it instead of adding a cave.

As for that trap with the bars. Traps always bother me. If there is no way to deal with a trap other than to go stick your head in it, then again I am just feeling like that rat in someone else's experiment.
I would like to see some alternative routes or play possibilities so the player's choices make a significant difference, not just be a puppet on a prearranged tour. Could allow the player to go through some section the other way, or to bypass the crushers, or cleverly trip the trap from somewhere outside of it (please, not by shooting some wall or switch that you cannot possibly know about until after you have experienced the trap).

Now the crushers. If the player could discover something about the first crusher that lets them defeat the other crushers more easily, then that would be more interesting than getting randomly crushed.
Something like a service switch that moves the floor down so there is more room. Or a service switch that stops the first crusher so that it is easier to approach the second crusher. Or perhaps that center of the crusher could have a service passage that allows the player around to the second and third crusher center too. Then the player has some freedom of choice, play tag with the crushers, or use the service passage.

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 12-16-11 at 15:56

Old Post 12-16-11 15:27 #
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wesleyjohnson
Senior Member


Posts: 1002
Registered: 04-09


Have another idea for making the crushers adjustable for difficulty level.

The crusher area could be changed to a large room with moving crushing machines, that had to be navigated, by a choice of alternative paths. Certain paths could be blocked by immovable Objects (like a technical column) for the HARD difficulty level.

The crushing movement could be controlled by zombies on a scrolling floor tripping linedefs. The zombie position would vary with difficulty level (using the difficultly settings to select alternative zombies), or could vary the number of zombies on the scrolling floor.
An EASY zombie could be placed on the left side of the scrolling floor,
MEDIUM zombie in the center, and a HARD zombie to the right.
The linedefs on the scrolling floor would be angled to vary the timing for the EASY, MEDIUM, and HARD zombies.
Such a mechanism would vary the timing of the crushers with the difficulty level and thus vary the difficulty of traversing the room.

Such a mechanism would depend upon playing a engine with zombie support. Since I created a new Map13, we no longer have any levels that are unplayable on a Doom Port with no zombie support. We have several maps with zombies, but they do non-critical things.

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 12-29-11 at 20:14

Old Post 12-29-11 20:08 #
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Macro11_1
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Posts: 449
Registered: 08-03


Sorry for the really late reply... was really focused on school and as such I decided to put the map on hold. Now that it's nearly summer I am ready to resume mapping it.

I reread the last 7 replies, and first off I would like to thank you Wesleyan, your criticism and suggestions are very helpful :). Please continue replying, I really do value your strong input. Also thanks Catoptromancy for your quick look, I agree my re-imagining needs a lot of work.

Now that I have had a break from the map, and am taking a fresh look at it, I realize that the crushers are indeed a problem, and I will be thinking of ways to fix it. I also realize that the caves are stupid and I will be removing them, I added them to make it seem like the base was falling apart... but I think i'd need to do a lot more than what's there. I also now understand what you mean when you say the level lacks a theme, and will be looking to reprimand that soon...

I really like the crusher-speed idea wes, but I have to ask, by "zombie" do you mean a voo-doo doll? If so then I can see how it would work. I would have to test (and I may do that after writing this post) if I can activate a crusher with a monster... if that is indeed what you mean.

I also like your suggestion of making the level less linear... though I also don't like it D:. (damn contradictions) I want the player to never be lost, but I also want them to have room to explore... I think the best solution would be to add extra rooms off to the side and maybe an extra route to a key...

In summary:
crushers = problem, fix it
layout = far from done D:
less linear
Find theme and remove the god damn caves.

Thanks again for reply, ill have something to show in a week or so... (what can I say? I map slow.)

Old Post 04-20-12 10:03 #
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wesleyjohnson
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Posts: 1002
Registered: 04-09


Yea- Voodoo dolls (extra player1 start positions).
Monsters won't work, as there are no walkover linedefs they can trip (they can push doors open).
Create a strip off to the side, give it a scrolling floor and place some voodoo dolls on it. By tagging the voodoo dolls with difficulty levels and varying their position and number, you should be able to tune the difficulty of the controlled operations.
Try crusher start and stop linedefs, also generalized lift and crusher linedefs (some can select crushing ability and speed).
Can also trigger some plain doors and lifts, that provide aid (EASY) or hinder (HARD) player attempts to get through the room.

I really would like to see that as a general machinery area, where the simple crushers are tailored as punch presses, stamping machines, Lathes, and other somewhat vaguely recognizable heavy manufacturing equipment.
Anything with moving doors, tools, and work surfaces. Such machines They have been maiming worker for years and should make a suitably dangerous area.

Last edited by wesleyjohnson on 04-20-12 at 23:47

Old Post 04-20-12 23:41 #
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