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Woolie Wool
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Once FreeDOOM's wad is finished, we will need an executable. No, not just any source port. We will have to make an executable made for FreeDOOM.It will use freedoom.wad as the IWAD. Remember that some people who might want FreeDOOM will be people who are not real DOOM fans and might not have played the shareware version. We will need to make FreeDOOM something you can just download, install and play. My suggestion is a ZDOOM-based executable. These features are ESSENTIAL:

High res to 1024x768 and beyond

16-bit and perhaps 32-bit color as well as 8-bit

Interface every bit as user-friendly as DOOM's.

The text at the end of E1M8, E2M8, E3M8, E4M8, MAP11, MAP16, MAP20, and MAP30 must be changed to fit the story of FreeDOOM

Option to choose one of the four DOOM 1 episodes or the 32-level DOOM II replacement in the episode select screen like this:
(Episode 1 name)
(Episode 2 name)
(Episode 3 name)
(Episode 4 name)
(DOOM II replacement name)

Old Post 09-09-02 18:22 #
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boris
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Uh, if we wanted our own .exe I'd say we'd use PRBoom.

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Old Post 09-09-02 18:28 #
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fraggle
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Freedoom is supposed to be source port independent but this is an interesting idea. The Zdoom source is not GPLed so if we did do this it would not be using Zdoom. I would suggest PrBoom myself because it is crossplatform, stable and true to the original. If we did distribute an executable it would probably not be modified - we dont want to modify the .exes if possible (while a complete package with freedoom and a free source port in is a good idea, we dont really want to lock ourselves into one particular port by using custom executables)

Last edited by fraggle on 09-09-02 at 19:35

Old Post 09-09-02 19:29 #
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BlackFish
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Eternity!

Old Post 09-09-02 21:31 #
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Woolie Wool
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fraggle said:
t want to modify the .exes if possible (while a complete package with freedoom and a free source port in is a good idea, we dont really want to lock ourselves into one particular port by using custom executables)


We can include a .deh file with the package for other source ports.

Old Post 09-09-02 22:12 #
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Woolie Wool
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RailGunner said:
Eternity!


Eternity uses that goddamn Allegro sound system I hate so much. THERE IS NO SOUND IN ETERNITY, MBF, BOOM, AND PROBABLY PRBOOM ON MANY SOUND CARDS, SO NO!

Old Post 09-09-02 22:14 #
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BlackFish
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wtf r u talkin about? I can play eternity just fine with sound :)

Old Post 09-09-02 22:25 #
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Woolie Wool
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I can't. You have a problem with that?

Old Post 09-09-02 22:58 #
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Kid Airbag
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Yeah, Allegro fucks up on my system too. I wasn't ever able to hear the Millennium music cause of it =(

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Old Post 09-09-02 23:03 #
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fraggle
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Woolie Wool said:
We can include a .deh file with the package for other source ports.
Exactly. So why bother with a custom .exe at all?


Eternity uses that goddamn Allegro sound system I hate so much. THERE IS NO SOUND IN ETERNITY, MBF, BOOM, AND PROBABLY PRBOOM ON MANY SOUND CARDS, SO NO!

I'm guessing you're using XP which has very little dos support at all (why you dont get sound). If you use the Windows (SDL) port of Eternity it should run properly. PrBoom is also for windows and does not use Allegro.

Old Post 09-10-02 01:11 #
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cph
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Woolie Wool said:
Once FreeDOOM's wad is finished, we will need an executable. No, not just any source port. We will have to make an executable made for FreeDOOM.


Beg to differ. Justify this.

We will want to include (or at least provide easy link to) an executable by default perhaps, to allow people to get started easily. But I don't see why one needs to be built specially. Sure we have more than enough port coders who can make one if needed, but supporting it is another matter.



We will need to make FreeDOOM something you can just download, install and play.


If we recommend a port we will choose one which is easy to run, certainly. But that's an objective for all the mainstream ports anyway.



My suggestion is a ZDOOM-based executable.


Let me take the opportunity to put down my strongly objection to anything based on ZDoom or otherwise involving the heretic/hexen source, due to licensing issues.

snip feature list as most ports already do them



Option to choose one of the four DOOM 1 episodes or the 32-level DOOM II replacement in the episode select screen



This is the mess we arrive at for trying to make too many levels. This seems utterly pointless to me. The only reason we support both games is to support both games' pwads. Freedoom itself didn't ought to be confusing people and generating extra work by having both. I guess I lost this argument already though.

Still, having them all selectable from the one menu isn't an absolutely required feature, after all id never did it, even for games in the same package. I have to concede that's an excuse rather than a good reason.

Bottom line, though, is we really don't want to create another source port unless its absolutely necessary. Which, IMO, it is not.

Old Post 09-10-02 10:33 #
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Jon
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Yeah, no source port. A .deh could be useful for changing text strings but tweaking gameplay isn't really necessary. I would advocate prboom at this time, as its a) GPL, b) mbf-based, c) has a stable GL mode, d) cross-platform (properly)

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Old Post 09-10-02 14:03 #
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fraggle
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cph said:
This is the mess we arrive at for trying to make too many levels. This seems utterly pointless to me. The only reason we support both games is to support both games' pwads. Freedoom itself didn't ought to be confusing people and generating extra work by having both. I guess I lost this argument already though.[/B]
I do agree with this actually: making replacements for all the Doom 1 levels does distract from the main task which is to make replacements for all the Doom 2 levels. I'd much rather people concentrated on Doom 2. However, there is the "shareware wad" subproject so I guess I've kind of encouraged it as well :)

Old Post 09-10-02 16:00 #
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Woolie Wool
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Jon said:
Yeah, no source port. A .deh could be useful for changing text strings but tweaking gameplay isn't really necessary. I would advocate prboom at this time, as its a) GPL, b) mbf-based, c) has a stable GL mode, d) cross-platform (properly)


I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYTHING USING ALLEGRO. PERIOD. And, we need a source port built for FreeDOOM because people who've never played DOOM probably don't know how to use DeHackEd or set up the *.ini file. We need a powerful port supporting much higher resolutions than 640x480 and 16-bit color.

Old Post 09-10-02 18:03 #
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fen boi
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Woolie Wool said:


I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYTHING USING ALLEGRO. PERIOD. And, we need a source port built for FreeDOOM because people who've never played DOOM probably don't know how to use DeHackEd or set up the *.ini file. We need a powerful port supporting much higher resolutions than 640x480 and 16-bit color.



Prboom doesn't use allegro, please stop being a dick. People can read and follow simple instructions. Sure reccomend a port, but don't force one one people. Why is 16bit colour needed?, no high resolution textures are available for freedoom as far as i'm aware.

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Old Post 09-10-02 18:13 #
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Woolie Wool
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fen boi said:

Why is 16bit colour needed?



Light shading looks much better in 65,536 colors.

I do not want to "force" a port on anyone. I just think we should have a port designed so that newbies can just click on the "freedoom" program icon and start playing. Most newbies, who are used to Win32 games, won't know how to use DOS anyway. FreeDOOM is not just any PWAD.

Old Post 09-10-02 18:23 #
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fen boi
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You don't need a new port, just a programme launcher that autodetects the .exe

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Old Post 09-10-02 18:28 #
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boris
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Um, ZDoom does not have 16bit color. BTW, Allegro r0x0rs. /me waits to get flamed.

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Old Post 09-10-02 20:51 #
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Kid Airbag
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Tarin said:
Um, ZDoom does not have 16bit color. BTW, Allegro r0x0rs. /me waits to get flamed.
Heh, I really don't mind allegro. It just annoys me that it doesn't work on my computer.

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Old Post 09-10-02 22:24 #
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Woolie Wool
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Archvile64 said:
Heh, I really don't mind allegro. It just annoys me that it doesn't work on my computer.


I HATE Allegro. If it doesn't work on my computer, which has a very common sound card, it is worthless.

Old Post 09-10-02 23:20 #
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VolteFace
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That's BS. Because something doesn't work for you, it's worthless? It
doesn't work for me, but it's *******ely not worthless. Let's see you
program a DOS sound library that works in Windows XP. Eh? Eh? Didn't
think so!




First of all, it IS just a PWAD. Doom itself is just a PWAD, considering
it will run on any source port, just like any other WAD.

Also, although I love ZDoom, it's not really suited for a project such
as this. A port that's closest to the original would be best, IMO.
PrBoom is *******ely the best way to go.

Old Post 09-11-02 00:17 #
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fraggle
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Woolie Wool said:
people who've never played DOOM probably don't know how to use DeHackEd or set up the *.ini file
PrBoom (which IMO would be the most likely candidate if there was a distribution with a source port included), Zdoom, MBF, Eternity all support embedding Dehacked patches inside wads. This isnt an issue.


I do not want to "force" a port on anyone.
I dont think anyone wants to; this is why freedoom is port independent and why we dont want to start using customised ports. If we were to do a package like this it would be an optional choice for people who just want to install and go, as you said.

Also, I'd encourage people to word their posts here a bit less heatedly. This thread seems to me to be heading towards a flamewar; if that happens I will simply close the thread.

Last edited by fraggle on 09-11-02 at 00:59

Old Post 09-11-02 00:52 #
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Hodapp87
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I agree with not relying on a particular port....
In addition to the main WAD file, why not just make several packages available for download on the page which use various source ports and have premade scripts to do everything for you, as well as any data aside from the main WAD needed to run with the source port?
Download the main WAD and choose a source port package to fit your OS and computer speed (we won't want try to load EDGE, for example, on a 486), unzip the 2 packages in a single directory, and you can have a working version guaranteed by running some particular script in the directory that will launch the source port with the items and files necessary for it.

Old Post 09-11-02 04:26 #
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Jon
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Hodapp87 said:
I agree with not relying on a particular port....
In addition to the main WAD file, why not just make several packages available for download on the page which use various source ports and have premade scripts to do everything for you, as well as any data aside from the main WAD needed to run with the source port?
Download the main WAD and choose a source port package to fit your OS and computer speed (we won't want try to load EDGE, for example, on a 486), unzip the 2 packages in a single directory, and you can have a working version guaranteed by running some particular script in the directory that will launch the source port with the items and files necessary for it.



Well something a little less complicated perhaps:

'freedoom is the data for a game. You also need a game executable to run it with. We recommend prboom (link). You may also be interested in other doom ports, there is a list here (doomworld/ports link)'

Re: hires textures

Well freedoom is supposed to have hi-res textures but the submitters just ignored that rule so we don't. Myself and a few other people originally interested in the project wanted to create hires alternatives for all the doom textures - together with the wishes of others to have a free IWAD to distribute with linux distros, freedoom was born. Those aformentioned people who shared my texture ideals have subsequently left the project as their interests have not been catered for.

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Old Post 09-11-02 10:04 #
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NiGHTMARE
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Woolie Wool said:
And, we need a source port built for FreeDOOM because people who've never played DOOM probably don't know how to use DeHackEd or set up the *.ini file. We need a powerful port supporting much higher resolutions than 640x480 and 16-bit color.

Go make one then.

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Old Post 09-11-02 13:58 #
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Quasar
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As a port author, and in particular of one that's been mentioned here, I too, like cph, will object to the targetting of FreeDOOM toward one or more source ports. The allowance of BOOM features in the levels is understandable and is of little loss since all major source ports have BOOM support. But going any further will immediately lose a large portion of the possible target audience.

And of course I resent the idea of it being targetted at zdoom, since that would exclude my own port.

Old Post 09-11-02 16:05 #
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Torn
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Why not just include PRboom with the wad file. Like the original DOOM 1 and 2. Then people can choose the source port they like to use, if they don't like PRboom. :)

Old Post 09-12-02 17:16 #
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rf`
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VolteFace said:
...First of all, it IS just a PWAD. Doom itself is just a PWAD, considering
it will run on any source port, just like any other WAD...



IWAD

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