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Phml
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Atheism is faith. Agnostic atheism is bollocks. Signed - your local agnostic.

Old Post 09-04-12 14:03
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exp(x)


Posts: 2595
Registered: 04-04



Phml said:
Atheism is faith.

Which definition of atheism are you using? The one religious defenders use to construct a straw-man argument against atheism?

Old Post 09-04-12 14:37
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Phml
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=atheism+definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheistic

Old Post 09-04-12 15:00
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exp(x)


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Phml said:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=atheism+definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheistic



Disbelief != Faith

Don't be an asshole with your lmgtfy link.

Old Post 09-04-12 15:07
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Phml
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If your belief system is supposedly based on logic, you shouldn't need to get so personal to defend it.

Disbelief is exactly faith. Certainties aren't rational or scientific. There is no proof gods exist, there is no proof gods don't exist. While the argument can be made, given our limited understanding of the universe, there is an overwhelming possibility gods don't exist, we can't be entirely sure of that; and to fail to recognize how limited our perception of reality is, to assume there is no possibility we are wrong on a fundamental level, is where the faith part comes in.

Old Post 09-04-12 15:25
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exp(x)


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Phml said:
If your belief system is supposedly based on logic, you shouldn't need to get so personal to defend it.
I'm not defending my "belief system"; I'm dispelling your misinformation.


Disbelief is exactly faith.
Not by any definition I've seen. Disbelief is not a certainty.


It's this simple:

If you believe in a deity, you are not an atheist
If you do not believe in a deity, you are an atheist

If you know there is or isn't a deity, you are not agnostic.
If you do not know there is or isn't a deity, you are agnostic.

Be careful how you interpret negations.

Old Post 09-04-12 15:45
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Phml
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To not believe in the existence of a particular thing is the same thing as believing in the absence of that thing. These are not relative statements. There is no confidence level. You believe or you don't.

If you would like to define atheism as "being relatively confident gods don't exist", then yes, I could agree with you atheism isn't faith. This conclusion will be irrelevant to anyone but you and me, of course, as we'd be essentially speaking our own fantasy language at that point.

You define atheism as relative to belief and agnosticism as relative to knowledge. Knowledge is defined as justified true belief, and to use both belief and knowledge in a comparison is an implicit admission belief isn't justified. What is a belief you can't justify? Faith.

Old Post 09-04-12 16:17
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exp(x)


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You're speaking like a philosopher and not a scientist. This conversation won't go anywhere.

Old Post 09-04-12 16:48
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Phml
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First a "religious defender", then an "asshole", finally a "philosopher". In a few posts I might turn out to be a giant flying spaghetti monster.

Your reactions so far have been oddly reminding of the way a religious nutjob barks at any pragmatic questioning his faith. Personal attacks, semantic derails, and ultimately an attempt to choke off the conversation.

Surely this must be just a coincidence, as we know you're a man of science, because you implied as much, and apparently I'm not, because you also said so. Science!

Old Post 09-04-12 17:51
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Bucket
ROCK & LOAD
COCK BEEN BLOWED
IN YOUR MOUTH,
MANJUICE EXPLOAD


Posts: 4928
Registered: 01-04



Phml said:
Atheism is faith. Agnostic atheism is bollocks. Signed - your local agnostic.

Not when you understand that religion is a human invention and no religious myth has any basis in reality, or can be substantiated by evidence. It doesn't require faith to not accept a lie.

Agnostics are just hedging their bets.

Old Post 09-04-12 18:15
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Eris Falling
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I...wouldn't say I was truly religious when I was younger, as I didn't attend church, but I still believed that God was real, and everything associated with it.

Yeah...then when I was 8 I started really getting into Astronomy, and even more recently, Astrophysics.

The science ones are far more complex = more interesting = bye bye God for E.F.

Old Post 09-04-12 21:26
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exp(x)


Posts: 2595
Registered: 04-04



Phml said:
First a "religious defender", then an "asshole", finally a "philosopher". In a few posts I might turn out to be a giant flying spaghetti monster.

Your reactions so far have been oddly reminding of the way a religious nutjob barks at any pragmatic questioning his faith. Personal attacks, semantic derails, and ultimately an attempt to choke off the conversation.

Surely this must be just a coincidence, as we know you're a man of science, because you implied as much, and apparently I'm not, because you also said so. Science!


GG. Better luck trolling me next time.

Old Post 09-04-12 22:08
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