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darknation
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can't help but notice that the praise for this wad is coming from relatively new posters. So, as a heads up from an old hand, this wad is fucking shit.

Old Post 12-13-12 03:59
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Pottus
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darknation said:
can't help but notice that the praise for this wad is coming from relatively new posters. So, as a heads up from an old hand, this wad is fucking shit.


That is very lame to say, at least give some reasons why or don't say it at all goof.

Old Post 12-13-12 04:01
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Chrono_T
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honestly besides the jade cube this wad is pretty shitty

Old Post 12-13-12 04:03
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darknation
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Pottus said:


That is very lame to say, at least give some reasons why or don't say it at all goof.

wait a minute while I check, maybe I downloaded the wrong wad

Old Post 12-13-12 04:12
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darknation
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no such luck, I've checked and it's definitely still a piece of shit.

Old Post 12-13-12 04:14
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Pottus
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lol! If that's the case sorry for calling you a goof... It's not the greatest Wad but certainly what you said is not true and if you felt that way I would feel bad for another mapper having that said to them without giving good reasons why the Wad is "shit".

Edit - I guess not... Give some reasons at least ya asshole.

Old Post 12-13-12 04:15
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Darsycho
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darknation said:
can't help but notice that the praise for this wad is coming from relatively new posters.


And your point is?


darknation said:
So, as a heads up from an old hand, this wad is fucking shit.


What's the deal with people saying they hate the WAD without giving a reason why? Let alone add unnecessary swearing to spice their sentences? =/

Old Post 12-13-12 04:24
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Pottus
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That's why I said something basically, all of us who make their own stuff put a lot of time in making what we do and when someone says something is "shit" which takes all but seconds to write have something to back up your assertion or don't write it.

Old Post 12-13-12 04:27
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darknation
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well, since you asked nicely.

plot is nonsensical. it exists purely as an excuse for voice acting. the voice acting is also shit. juvenile level design. an anus that shits doom marines. did I mention that this wad is ugly? jizz in the eye makes me weep less. some bits almost made me think this wad had some interesting ideas, but then I realized that was only because what came before was shit. when drowning, one will cling desperately to a mediocre idea floating in the black seas of retarded. Milton reduced to a sector penis with hairy balls. TEXTURES! and the use thereof (see - ugly). jumping puzzles that aren't puzzles, are therefore just jumping. english language raped and pissed on. gameplay repetitive. boring? yes. identical rooms and identical fights. use of monsters at best uninspired, at worst HUURRR HURRR MWWAARRRRR MASTURBATE ON ROIGER EBERTS CATCATCAT. Fiffy. I have huge tits.

there are actually so many fucking problems with this wad that I no longer have the will to list them all. take my word for it when I tell you that this wad is fucking shit.

Old Post 12-13-12 04:55
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Obsidian
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It looks like you're talking Terryish.

Old Post 12-13-12 05:05
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darknation
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don't shoot the messenger. best save the bullet for yourself.

Old Post 12-13-12 05:33
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purist
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darknation said:
well, since you asked nicely... [Descends into gibberish]


I thought you were an aspiring author?

Old Post 12-13-12 06:17
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VylePhinder
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darknation said:
can't help but notice that the praise for this wad is coming from relatively new posters. So, as a heads up from an old hand, this wad is fucking shit.


Well some of us don't like to play nothing but the same shit over and over again. And if you don't understand why this wad is good, you never will. I have been playing doom since it first came out so... New users on this forum != new doomers.

I bet I would hate every one of your favorite wads, I know your kind. I would say that without you and those like you, more authors would be inclined to make good wads like this one, instead of constantly using the same Doom 2 stock textures and atmosphere that I have had almost 20 years to, quite frankly, get sick of.

Old Post 12-13-12 06:44
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VylePhinder
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purist said:


I thought you were an aspiring author?



If he is... Well, something tells me that his tastes will leave his maps with ALOT to be desired...

I do not have high hopes for anything he might write. Just wouldn't be my style, if his afore-displayed tastes are any indication of what they would be like.

Old Post 12-13-12 06:53
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esselfortium
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VylePhinder said:


Well some of us don't like to play nothing but the same shit over and over again. And if you don't understand why this wad is good, you never will. I have been playing doom since it first came out so... New users on this forum != new doomers.

I bet I would hate every one of your favorite wads, I know your kind. I would say that without you and those like you, more authors would be inclined to make good wads like this one, instead of constantly using the same Doom 2 stock textures and atmosphere that I have had almost 20 years to, quite frankly, get sick of.


At risk of being crass, having experienced the entirety of all 33 maps of DTS-T a few nights ago, I don't think I could imagine a much better definition of "playing nothing but the same shit over and over again" than that particular experience.

If you'd really like I could go into more detail about why box rooms connected by mazes of narrow spaghetti corridors make for repetitive, mind-numbingly boring gameplay, or about how enjoyable it is to be made to backtrack through a level five times in a row to do the same switch puzzle repeatedly, or to have to play through an endless chain of copy-and-pasted duplicate rooms each filled with a different monster type.

This is not new and exciting gameplay. This isn't even qualifiable as gameplay, period.

Sorry, Deathmatcher. I watched this thread for a while and kept my mouth shut, but you seem like an earnest enough guy and you deserve better than the mindless, gawking praise you've been given here.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:01
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VylePhinder
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esselfortium said:

At risk of being crass, having experienced the entirety of all 33 maps of DTS-T a few nights ago, I don't think I could imagine a much better definition of "playing nothing but the same shit over and over again" than that particular experience.

If you'd really like I could go into more detail about why box rooms connected by mazes of narrow spaghetti corridors make for repetitive, mind-numbingly boring gameplay, or about how enjoyable it is to be made to backtrack through a level five times in a row to do the same switch puzzle repeatedly, or to have to play through an endless chain of copy-and-pasted duplicate rooms each filled with a different monster type.

This is not new and exciting gameplay. This isn't even qualifiable as gameplay, period.

Sorry, Deathmatcher. I watched this thread for a while and kept my mouth shut, but you seem like an earnest enough guy and you deserve better than the mindless, gawking praise you've been given here.



If you say so, but I know what I like, and, like everyone else allowed to post reviews, my vote (like it or not) counts. Thus I am as much a part of the overall rating, as any other individual. That having been said, I would like to articulate a couple of things:

1. I realize my tastes are not very much like most others, so I'll just get that out of the way right there.

2. I love this wad for its ability to "change-themes". 32 levels of doom in a single wad is awesome. 32 levels where I don't have to stare at the same light grey or shit brown textures from 1995, is better. There is (in an early level, no less) rain, thunder, and fog, all helping to set an atmosphere that traditional doom (awesome as it is) just doesn't provide.

3. Doom wads like DTWID and other 'classic doom' wads rated amazingly this year are obviously good wads or they wouldn't gather so many strong fans, however, I just can't do it, man. I try, but I just can't take 30 straight levels of the exact same atmosphere and theme (okay, okay, I know it varies some, usually one or two theme switches toward the end, but all textures are is still from like '95, so no new feeling at all). Wads like "Unloved", "Epic", "Epic 2", "Hell Ground", UTNT, and even "Mandrill Ass", for me, dwarf the aforementioned wads.

4. I respect your opinion, but the fact that it bothers you so much that other peoples opinions differ from your own, is what is really troubling here.

5.


esselfortium said:
This is not new and exciting gameplay. This isn't even qualifiable as gameplay, period.



That's just retarded.

Last edited by VylePhinder on 12-13-12 at 07:30

Old Post 12-13-12 07:24
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Captain Ventris
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Wait, wait, wait. You've played the wads you listed, but still can't see why DTS-T is witless drudgery?

And dude, if you are the kind of person who will suddenly dodge into insulting someone on the basis of maybe being Southern because your E-Peen is hurt, you are going to get familiar with Rutebaga Salad very quickly.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:28
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Xaser
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VylePhinder said:
Are you from the South U.S.?

Hi, random stranger here. I happen to be from (and am currently in) the South U.S. What exactly is this statement intended to convey?

Old Post 12-13-12 07:30
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VylePhinder
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Okay, Okay, point taken.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:31
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Captain Ventris
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Xaser said:

Hi, I am South And What is this?


Only had to move one word!

Old Post 12-13-12 07:32
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Xaser
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I used to be West, but they moved me because I got too wild.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:34
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esselfortium
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VylePhinder said:


2. I love this wad for its ability to "change-themes". 32 levels of doom in a single wad is awesome. 32 levels where I don't have to stare at the same light grey or shit brown textures from 1995, is better. There is (in an early level, no less) rain, thunder, and fog, all helping to set an atmosphere that traditional doom (awesome as it is) just doesn't provide.


Really? REALLY?!

The wad consists almost entirely of "the same light grey or shit brown textures from 1995" that you're complaining about. I'm not even slightly exaggerating here. It's pretty much all Doom 2 or Final Doom textures, and they're not being used in any sort of new or inventive way here. You keep bringing up this point about it not looking like 1995. It looks more like 1995 than literally anything else I've seen nominated for a Cacoward in the past few years, DTWID included. It even has the obligatory 1995 ickwall toilets.

This wouldn't be a problem if it played remotely well.


4. I respect your opinion,

I'm gonna stop you right there, because we both know that's bullshit, lol.


but the fact that it bothers you so much that other peoples opinions differ from your own, is what is really troubling here.

Are you from the South U.S.?


If you haven't noticed, it is incredibly ironic to be telling someone they're 'too bothered by other peoples' opinions' while making posts like this. I posted my opinion. Get over it or get out.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:38
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VylePhinder
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esselfortium said:

Get over it or get out.



No.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:49
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Csonicgo


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I really don't see how listening to an evil sounding ROB from StarFox 64 while navigating a colon is 5 star material. Sorry if I seem overly critical.

Old Post 12-13-12 07:51
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The Ultimate DooMer
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And there I was thinking that DW might just be starting to come out of it's 2010-let's-demonise-zdoom-and-anything-else-unconventional-that-drags-players-out-of-their-comfort-zone phase...nope, just took a single troll post from an old hand to bring it all back. And seeing a bunch of other old hands jumping on the bandwagon straight afterwards is even more disappointing.


darknation said:
can't help but notice that the praise for this wad is coming from relatively new posters.


Namecheck, and you'll see quite a few older posters dishing out praise and also criticism.


VylePhinder said:
Doom wads like DTWID and other 'classic doom' wads rated amazingly this year are obviously good wads or they wouldn't gather so many strong fans, however, I just can't do it, man. I try, but I just can't take 30 straight levels of the exact same atmosphere and theme (okay, okay, I know it varies some, usually one or two theme switches toward the end, but all textures are is still from like '95, so no new feeling at all). Wads like "Unloved", "Epic", "Epic 2", "Hell Ground", UTNT, and even "Mandrill Ass", for me, dwarf the aforementioned wads.


Same here. I still enjoy them if they're hard (slaughter wads especially) and/or use themes/textures/gameplay etc. in a way that you don't see very often, but the endless regurgitating of the same few themes is just lazy and boring to me. I nominated this wad because it stands out in many ways (plus the fact that I still enjoyed it a lot despite it's flaws), and the cacowards are meant to showcase memorable wads.


Agentbromsnor said:
Is this really supposed to be for ZDoom, because I don't see any significant ZDoom features in the screenshots. This could have just as well been made for Boom.


Well, if it had been made for Boom it would look (and be looked at) a lot different. (not to mention some of the maps wouldn't have been the same)


General Rainbow Bacon said:
If anyone figures out how to get to the super-secret level, PM me. I'm stumped.


I didn't figure out the official way, but I did find a alternative way that was a bit more painful

(while we're on the subject of the 2nd secret map, I was surprised by what it was...but it was made in the way I would've done it with vanilla in 2001, rather than today where I'd have used true 3D and scripted boss mechanics)

Old Post 12-13-12 14:48
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Captain Ventris
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No, no, no. This is not bashing ZDoom. I exclusively make unconventional ZDoom-heavy wads and adored Winter's Fury.

The majority of these maps are, as described, square rooms connected by stringy corridors with like 8 monsters a level. Last I recalled, ZDoom didn't limit you to Wolfenstein levels. This isn't fun. It's. Just. Not. Fun.

Unless my comfort zone is "has gameplay different from shopping in the Commissary", in which case this definitely takes me outside of that.

Now I admittedly haven't played the final episode - I hear it's got some neat ideas. I'll play it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't stop the entire other 3/4ths of the wad from making me cry myself to sleep, and I will likely recommend that Deathmatcher make a DTS-T redux and redo all of the older maps. Even if the Apostruct is solid gold, the project just isn't good, like how ZPack wasn't suddenly good on the basis of Thunderpeak being awesome.

Don't cry foul because this kind of touches on ZDoom features - Beyond Reality got rave reviews. Because, you know, it was good.

Old Post 12-13-12 15:03
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Gez
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(It's unfair to ZPack to imply the 29 other maps are all bad.)


Anyway. DTS-T is not a very good mapset, but it doesn't deserve the extreme reactions it got. At the very least, it shows promise, it shows the author is not afraid to learn what he needs to create an ambitious project and is willing to invest the time needed to see them to completion. He just needs to focus now on creating levels that have a good flow and an appealing aesthetics.

DTS-T illustrates why one should usually start small. Release first few maps as standalone, get feedback on them, use it to make better maps, etc. And then you get to make your masterpiece which might not be a megawad (because the first couple of episodes have been released separately) but which is unmarred by the noob maps creating a barrier to the better content.

I would not advise overhauling old maps constantly as you improve your mapping skills. This way lies madness and endlessly recreating the same dozen of levels until you're so fed up of the project you abandon the idea of finishing it. It is preferable to create new and better maps than to improve old and poor maps.

Old Post 12-13-12 15:46
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darknation
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
I gotta say, I am wondering why you would come out of virtual retirement here, after rarely posting in the last couple of years, (at least not that I've seen), just to rip shit off this particular project.

Not even trying to be critical. I just don't get it. Well, I mean, I do get it, in an abstract, pop-psychology kind of way, but in the end, like, why even bother?

actually, I never even played the fucking wad. this was just a way for me to see who the new crop of n00bish retards are, where they live, who leaps in to defend them, the new social strata, etc etc etc.

ho ho tro.

Old Post 12-13-12 16:27
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Khorus
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The Ultimate DooMer said:
And there I was thinking that DW might just be starting to come out of it's 2010-let's-demonise-zdoom-and-anything-else-unconventional-that-drags-players-out-of-their-comfort-zone phase...


If you're throwing me in there then note that my last release was not only for ZDoom, but for Strife. The ultimate in hurr unconventional hurr as far as Doom engine releases go.

Old Post 12-13-12 17:09
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Membrain
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@darknation: We have a real badass over here. Whoop-de-doo, way to be a jackass troll.

Anyway, this mapset is alright. The early maps were actually kind of fun, and the feeling of adventure I got from the set was impressive. I got bored about midway through the third chapter, so I just warped to the final one. And I was pretty damn impressed. Some of the maps were questionable, and I'm not a huge fan of a lot of the hoard-y gameplay, but it was enjoyable as a whole. For being the work of one person, it's impressive, but I would recommend honing your skills on smaller, single-map submissions.

Old Post 12-13-12 17:11
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