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Marcaek
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GBT3 said:
There's nothing immoral in what he posted,


Considering what he posted basically says "let's celebrate the savage murder of highschoolers" I'm inclined to disagree. In an attempt to promote the project, no less.

Old Post 04-21-13 20:44
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Chrono_T
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as with the 1st UAC ultra, if you want i can design an endgame boss for this one too

for episode 5 of course, cause im lazy :y

Old Post 04-21-13 20:47
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GBT3
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Marcaek said:


Considering what he posted basically says "let's celebrate the savage murder of highschoolers" I'm inclined to disagree. In an attempt to promote the project, no less.


It's rather joke and not serious annotation with distance. He has already style and quality so this is not promotion or shock value. Don't see evil where there is no one, and past is fiction, persistent to exist only in our minds and physical relicts, ashes. Only present is real.

Replaying on UV now, not as hard as expected. I'd say, in UAC Ultra, Skagway or Worst Case Scenario was harder than some of these maps.

Old Post 04-21-13 21:00
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Jimmy
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Okay, forgive me for the misunderstanding, everybody. I didn't mention everything I meant to. I wasn't actually objecting to the fact that the mapset ends with the player's death. That's a perfectly fine way to end a WAD. I was simply saying that its execution was poor.

Here's what happened to me. The switch teleports the player onto a voodoo doll. This setup means that when you hit use to flip the switch, you reload your last game in the exact same instant. So there literally is no ending - you die for a single gametic, and then your game reloads. It's a horrendously broken setup - at least in ZDoom.

I would also argue that even when not broken and working as intended (which I'm guessing it does in other sourceports), it's questionable. Why is it a normal exit switch, and not a walk-over boobytrap laid by Hell that kills the player? And why doesn't the player's death actually end the level, like the damaging exit special would? There are better ways to end a mapset.

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Last edited by Jimmy on 04-21-13 at 21:26

Old Post 04-21-13 21:09
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franckFRAG
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Nice atmosphere.

Old Post 04-21-13 22:08
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Melon
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Initial thoughts after playing some of the early maps on a lower difficulty setting.

It feels like it's made for nightmare difficulty. Most of what I've seen so far is sparse. While I respect the decision to try and make Nightmare playable, the other difficulties feel empty as a result, lots of times I've been assaulted by demons, but from a mile away. On fast their extreme speed would make them a threat, but so far I've almost always been able to effortlessly mow them down before they reach me. The opening fight on Map3 being the exception so far and pretty fun so hopefully the general gameplay style changes later on. With the decision to not fiddle with monster count too much on lesser difficulties, this "intended for Nightmare" feeling the hard difficulty has still comes through on lower difficulty settings.

It definitely feels unique, maybe I'll give it a go on fast or respawn parameters (or both) sometime and see how it fares.

Old Post 04-21-13 22:20
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scalliano
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GBT3 said:

It's rather joke and not serious annotation with distance. He has already style and quality so this is not promotion or shock value. Don't see evil where there is no one, and past is fiction, persistent to exist only in our minds and physical relicts, ashes. Only present is real.



Tell that to the victims' families. If strawman existentialism is the only means by which you can defend this bullshit, it only serves to reinforce how indefensible it is.

Old Post 04-21-13 22:43
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skillsaw
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I just played through the demo on UV and wanted to leave some feedback here.

Let me first state that I like UAC Ultra quite a bit (well, other than the flying maulotaur things, at least, heh). It's one of my favorite wads of the last few years. It captured a sense of complete isolation in a base that was seemingly falling apart as you navigated it, alone. The monster placement was occasionally tough, but always fair, and it was all the more fun for it.

UAC Ultra 2 does a lot of things well: the abundance of secret areas that are large and populated with lots of monsters makes the mapset feel unique among modern wads. There's great connectivity present within the wildly non-orthogonal designs. It goes without saying that the new textures are awesome and make the mapset stand out even more than it otherwise would. But, with that said, UAC Ultra 2 seems to be missing some of the qualities that made the first one so great.

I think the biggest thing missing is any sense of tension. I think the biggest reason tension is missing is because of the excessively homogenous monster selection. Limiting yourself to using only Doom 1 monsters (plus Hell Knights) and then making the maps enormous, 15+ minute, 300+ monster slogs is a recipe for tedium. The original UAC Ultra was not shy with Chaingunners, Viles, or Revenants, and I don't see why you need to be shy with them here. It's a lot more fun to play Doom when there are threatening things about.

Another problem with tension stems from the design of the maps overall. It never feels like you have to commit to being aggressive. I think there are just too many bottlenecks in the maps that you can use to ambush monsters as they come to you. It also seems like enemies always attack from the front and at a pace that you can dictate while playing.

Another problem is the music. Totally subjective, I know, but for whatever it's worth I strongly preferred the grinding industrial sound of the original. The endless death metal almost made me nauseous.

A third problem is that the sense of progression that was pretty strongly present in the first seems to be missing here, and there doesn't seem to be much sense of place in the maps. It feels like your always in some dark hallway that happens to be very uniquely shaped but in practice is not much different from the last one. When you compound this with the excessively homogenous monster placement, it just becomes something of a slog, unfortunately.

Lastly, some minor issues...
-The rocket launcher feels different to me. Is it firing a few tics before it normally does?
-Monster teleporter closets seem to take a really long time to unload.
-There was a leaking ceiling flat on MAP04. I see Jimmy pointed it out in his post above.

I'm still looking forward to seeing the rest, but I'm having some reservations about UAC Ultra 2 that I didn't have before. Anyways, all my complaints are pretty subjective. Good luck on the remaining maps.

Old Post 04-22-13 03:35
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glenzinho
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DuckReconMajor mode?

Old Post 04-22-13 06:23
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Demonologist
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FDAs.
Uh, what to say... I wasn't impressed. Extremely non-linear mazelike levels (and I suck at navigating mazes) with simplistic and bland visuals that would be more typical for something from late 90-s (well, they become better towards the end, though still far from the original). Music selection works against atmosphere rather than helps creating it, though 'Jet pilot' om map02 sounds funny. Smooth weapon animations disorient and take some time to get used to, I also agree with skillsaw about RL, its behavoir is different indeed.
So all in all - not my taste, sorry. Don't know if I'll continue looking forward to this, I liked the original much more.

40oz said:
Happy Columbine School Shooting Day! KILL 'EM AAAAALLLL!!!!!

Looks like this silly joke still works here. All the emotional replies make me smile scornfully.

Old Post 04-22-13 14:26
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40oz
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Well, with the columbine joke protests aside, I'm sorry to hear most of you don't like it so much.

I can come to terms with the fact that this doesn't feel like a true sequel to UAC Ultra. In fact my testers told me that this feels less like a sequel to UAC Ultra and more like a "Super Motornerve" and whether you're okay with that or not, I was very proud of that response.

After a few years of playing Doom wads, I grew tired of playing wads that had heavily orthogonal, and highly detailed rooms, and extremely choreographed gameplay. Which is why this wad has many more secrets made of winding hallways and support beams instead of rectangle shaped rooms with techwalls and computer monitors everywhere, and that many of the conflicts are "avoidable." There are some secret areas where the entire novelty of it is just to have the freedom to skip entire sections of the map, but naturally, you'll finish the level with about 40% or less kills. This is because I didn't want the player to always be obligated to deal with situations, especially if they found them too difficult or strange or simply disliked them for other reasons, but could still search them out to see what he's missing if he so chooses. The opportunity to pick how you want to play the levels is always there. So you may find a completely new secret area, or wake up monsters and attack them from a different angle, or go one way to get a shotgun and a bunch of shells, or the other way to get a rocket launcher and a berserk pack and play the level that way. (Many of the levels in the Doom 2 IWAD play that way. My levels were designed to amplify that mechanic to a whole new level)

I went ahead and insisted that players play on a lesser skill level so that they wouldn't have to search so hard for weapons and ammo and health and what not. Even though the gameplay is easy with narrowed selection of Doom 1 monsters and items, the intention is that the player be given a chance to learn and understand the layouts of the maps. They're definitely mazey and daunting at first, so I don't object to your negative comments after only playing it once, because I intended for the wad to only get better the second or third time you play it.

It was a little heartbreaking to watch Jimmy's live stream of UAC Ultra 2, and listening to him bash every insignificant thing, from lighting effects not making any sense, to how monotonous it is to kill a horde of imps and demons with a shotgun and 100 shells, to teleports being different shapes than squares. I've gotten a lot of inspiration from classic 1990's wads, in which their level design was bizarre and open-ended, had secret areas that were vital to dealing with difficult situations, and a lot of visuals that were nonsensical and required you to open up your imagination to wrap your head around why things look the way they do. These are the types of things I feel are the fundamentals of Doom and what makes a wad worth playing more than once. I can only hope that players can learn to look past those things and enjoy a wad that rarely "forces" the player to handle any one situation one particular way (excepting the Icon of Sin fight of course)

Be it as it may, this isn't much like UAC Ultra 1, but I can't honestly say after releasing it myself, with the preliminary playtesting aside, that I have played through it more than one or two times. However, whether I am speedrunning this on UV, or slaying insurmountable hordes of monsters with my futile weaponry on coop settings, deathmatching it with bots, or crashing through the same level repeatedly on Nightmare mode, these levels have yet to cease holding my attention. If you're not willing to give these levels a second chance, even after now finding out where the important keys, switches, and secrets are, then I'm sorry to hear that. But this was the style of gameplay I pursued when making UAC Ultra 2, and it only complicates further in the remaining episodes.

Last edited by 40oz on 04-22-13 at 15:32

Old Post 04-22-13 15:23
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Memfis
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40oz said:
It was a little heartbreaking to watch Jimmy's live stream of UAC Ultra 2, and listening to him bash every insignificant thing, from lighting effects not making any sense, to how monotonous it is to kill a horde of imps and demons with a shotgun and 100 shells, to teleports being different shapes than squares.

It seems that Jimmy just got pissed off by that joke so he already disliked the wad even before playing it. I imagine his reaction would be veeeery different if it was an esselfortium wad for example. No offense, that's just what it feels like.

Old Post 04-22-13 15:37
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Katamori
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If only you could have posted is yesterday...I'd have made a Let's Play about it already...now I can't :c

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Last edited by Katamori on 04-22-13 at 16:33

Old Post 04-22-13 16:27
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Tarnsman
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I only played it coop with Alfonzo but here are my thoughts.

Pros:
The shapeliness of the maps.

The openness and connectivity of the layouts.

The size of secret areas.

The overall conducive flow that felt right in Coop after the first two maps.

The concept of defeating an Icon of Sin then going inside of it in map 7.

Cons:
The new textures look like garbage IMO. Especially the blue lights and the sky. They're all washed out and way too grungy. The first UAC Ultra had a bleak feel that worked, this one just feels like someone went around and caked a layer of crud and grime on every wall but otherwise the base looks functioning and intact, creating an odd disconnect.

The gray water is animated like a fast flowing river or ocean waves which makes it look hilarious in small water tanks where it has no reason to be moving like that at all.

The first two maps are really boring, especially in coop, with next to no opposition.

The music is a constant never ending repetitive grind of misery which is really annoying when you have long stretches of silence and atmosphere yet there is still this pounding metal blaring in the background. When I finally got tired of the music and turned it of I found that literally anything else (ranging from Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins to Good Vibrations from the Beach Boys) made for better BGM to the levels.

There is absolutely zero visual distinction in this map set, apart from a few really visually memorable moments (like that odd teleport floor grid maze) this might be the single worst offender of "EVERYTHING LOOKS THE SAME!".wad I've played. I honestly thought there were only 3 textures while going through this. And I mean the first UAC Ultra had the same type of visual consistency but there were still more stand out areas which I think are lacking here.


Memfis said:

It seems that Jimmy just got pissed off by that joke so he already disliked the wad even before playing it. I imagine his reaction would be veeeery different if it was an esselfortium wad for example. No offense, that's just what it feels like.



Stop being wrong. If this was an Essel wad we'd be bitching about the same shit as we often do. In fact just yesterday I informed Essel of yet another texture I absolutely hate in the BTSX texture set and just how much it sucks, while he was working on revamping one of his maps, that he had been informed sucked. Streaming functions as "an Instant Bitching™ mechanism among us when testing each others' stuff" so it's generally focused on nitpicking all the stuff you don't like.

Last edited by Tarnsman on 04-22-13 at 18:15

Old Post 04-22-13 18:06
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Jimmy
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Memfis said:

It seems that Jimmy just got pissed off by that joke so he already disliked the wad even before playing it.


No. I always base my opinion on WADs on the actual gameplay experience. Who made them, and what (if any) controversy arose around their release, I really don't care about, because at the end of the day, everyone tries to make good Doom WADs so that other players can have fun. So I don't care about the "joke" in the first post in the slightest. Just saw it as a really silly thing to say and that it might offend some people, and all I said was "maybe don't say that".

So just to clarify, I've been looking forward to the unveiling of this project for what seems like a long time now, and I was really looking forward to playing this as I know 40oz is a good mapper, and hey, UAC Ultra was brilliant, so I should definitely enjoy a sequel to that. I was just really disappointed when, in my personal view, it just didn't stack up against the original in so many ways.

I also have some further 'splainin' to do. That whole stream of maps 5-7 was in fact never meant to be seen. On watching it back, I started to figure that all my criticisms just stacked up and that my choices of words might come across as overly mean, so I meant to remove it from Twitch... but apparently didn't. So I have to say I'm sorry if I came across as harsh or hurtful during that stream and for any outright offense caused. Honestly, I'm never usually that critical of things, but I think my dismay at having definitely not enjoyed the WAD up to the point where I started streaming was starting to get to me, so I just came across as downright vitriolic. Maybe if I'd streamed it from the beginning, I would've captured my initial thoughts on the project, which definitely started out positive. That said, my criticisms of the WAD do still stand - I just don't want to come across as someone who just hates things for stupid reasons.

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Old Post 04-22-13 18:18
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scalliano
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Having given the .WAD a fair crack of the whip, here are my thoughts:

I can understand you wanting to limit the variation in enemies, given the projected size of the finished article, but I breezed through this mapset on medium without dying once (bar the voodoo trap at the end). That's rare for me.

Personally I think that the new textures are a natural progression from Ultra 1, though a little bit of colour variation wouldn't go amiss as they are pretty monochrome.

Now, the layout. Seems to be a bit of a sticking point here, but I enjoyed the exploration overall. The maps really felt oldskool in this regard, so that's a thumbs up from me. However, I found a yellow keycard in MAP06 but don't remember ever finding the yellow door.

And, yeah, the voodoo trap at the end of MAP07 left me completely cold. Mainly because initially I wasn't entirely sure if it was meant to be the end of the level or just a TNT-style headfuck.

Can't comment on the music as my Hodges jukebox was on autoload. Nothing personal.

I can't say that this is shaping up to be the bigger and badder sequel I was hoping for, but it's a decent E1-style blastfest and with 4 episodes to go there's plenty of golf left. Just remember in future to put your brain into gear before you put your mouth in motion.

Old Post 04-22-13 19:12
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The Green Herring
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With all the discussion about the music in this WAD, I decided to download the thing, and check out the soundtrack for myself.

That's when I noticed one of the unfinished tracks I started for this project was used as the title screen music. Emphasis on "unfinished;" it's only an intro, and at that point, I hadn't named it. And as far as I can tell, I'm not credited for composing it in any way, shape, or form.

Is there a reason you used an unfinished track, and moreover didn't credit its composer (me) even though it was written for this project?

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Old Post 04-22-13 19:18
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darkreaver
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Just did a quick run through maps 1-4. I dunno. Not my cup of tea really, but it somwhow I kinda liked it too. The biggest let down was the opposition. I`m one of those who likes putting archviles in map01 even in megawads, so obviously these maps are way to "boring" monster-wise. Also using the pistol is sooo boring and you shouldnt have to use the pistol AT ALL in ANY map imo.

Old Post 04-22-13 19:56
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franckFRAG
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Contrary to most of the players, I appreciated this wad, even more than the original. Surement because 40oz knew how to take risks, to make the wad in an id-like aspect, what is considerable.

I like very much this style of gameplay, which is not enough made to my taste, there was DTWID, the first part of Interception, but it is everything for these last 2 years to my knowledge. Btw a wad in this style, with customs textures, there is not, and UAC Ultra 2 is in the unique wad proposed this rather particular experiment with the customized textures.

As regards the music, I like very much, but it is true that it does not really correspond to the theme.

I blame more in this for episode lack of variety in the theme (always even textures).

I wish however that the next episode knows about more to surprise me, with traps more intelligent, not necessarily choreographed, but traps a kinda as we can find in "e1m3", this map seems to me to have highly varied, simple, but effective traps.

Old Post 04-22-13 20:33
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valkiriforce
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franckFRAG said:
take risks

Doggone it not enough people do this. I want to see some real leaps of doom in this community; somebody with the audacity to make a 32x32 sector with SUPPORT3 at an X alignment of 0 all around the damn thing. Also I enjoy the unorthodox teleport shapes and symbols much like the E4 sky teleport in Enigma.

I'm enjoying myself so far on Hurt Me Plenty.

Old Post 04-22-13 23:08
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40oz
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The Green Herring said:
Is there a reason you used an unfinished track, and moreover didn't credit its composer (me) even though it was written for this project?


I have a text file that I'm still filling out that has loads of people to credit. When I get around to uploading it to /idgames, you will certainly be included. I didn't forget you I just didn't think to include an unfinished textfile with an unfinished megawad. That's all, it was nothing personal.

Old Post 04-23-13 00:22
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The Green Herring
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Glad the credits thing is settled. The thing is, though, the track you are using, as I said before, is unfinished; it was never meant to be title screen music, as there was going to be a lot more after the part where it ends because it was meant to be level music. Moreover, I was not made aware that you were going to use it; I was under the impression that due to me going so long without finishing my music (because of several things going on at the time that left it all falling by the wayside), you weren't going to use any of it, and that you were instead going to find tracks that sounded like my music. I don't want unfinished material in a finished product; please let me finish my music before using it. Until then, please remove my track from this WAD and replace it with a different one for the title screen music.

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Old Post 04-23-13 00:48
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40oz
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np

Old Post 04-23-13 02:14
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jute
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I'm excited to try this. The gameplay sounds interesting, and I'm glad you're willing to go against convention. My one complaint, based on screenshots, is that the big status bar numbers are illegible.

Old Post 04-23-13 02:24
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Avoozl
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Strangely enough I actually like the hud bar as it is, however I don't use whole hud at all often as I prefer to use the alt huds in zdoom/gzdoom and prboom+.

Sure this mod isn't exactly like UAC Ultra but it is pretty good in it's own right, feels like a spinoff in a way, I love the green and grey base textures.

Last edited by Avoozl on 04-23-13 at 03:34

Old Post 04-23-13 02:47
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Urban Space Cowboy
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Jimmy91 said:
Honestly, I'm never usually that critical of things, but I think my dismay at having definitely not enjoyed the WAD up to the point where I started streaming was starting to get to me, so I just came across as downright vitriolic. Maybe if I'd streamed it from the beginning, I would've captured my initial thoughts on the project, which definitely started out positive. That said, my criticisms of the WAD do still stand - I just don't want to come across as someone who just hates things for stupid reasons.
Okay, for those of us who don't want to screw around with Twitch, and now that you've presumably calmed down a bit -- what do you think now?

Old Post 04-23-13 05:44
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Obsidian
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Maybe "UAC Ultra: Deathmatch Edition"? It seems a lot more geared towards Co-op and DM than Single player, although the exploration theme is a neat idea.

Old Post 04-23-13 06:04
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RottKing
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I played through this today, and I liked it up until map03, that's where it started to become fairly tedious, and it only got worse during the subsequent maps. HOWEVER I will break this review down into neat little packages wrapped all pretty-like.

VISUALS: I definitely enjoyed the atmosphere this wad creates: bleak, dark, and lonely. Reminds me of the time I died in a street at night back in 1934, some dude shot my ass dead I was pissed. Cool weird shapes and imposing architecture. I really didn't mind the oddly shaped teleporters, or the teleporter texture either, I thought they were decent and got the job done. The textures did get repetitive after a while but it didn't bother me that much.

MUSIC: Raw Ass. It was ok on Map01 and Map07, since Map01's song was decent and the map was short, and the shit was hitting the fan on Map07 so it was fitting. Besides that though it generally made me wanna IDMUS as soon as possible. Raw Ass. These maps would have greatly benefitted from moody, atmospheric songs.

GAMEPLAY: First the things I liked! I loved the amount of effort and thought you put into these layouts. They're very elaborate and expansive, with a stunning amount of secrets and different paths through a level. It adds a lot of replay value. You really nailed the feeling of exploring some large, dank ass abandoned bases. Ammo and health were generally pretty good, can't say I have any complaints in that department. Map07 was a pretty good Icon of Sin map. Now, unfortunately, the things I didn't like is quite a bit longer!

I was diggin' my time playing this during map01 and map02, towards the end of map03 however I started to feel "The Tedium", and "The Tedium" stems from multiple causes. First of all, gimme a weapon. Gimme a POWERFUL damn ass weapon, and pronto cause I got some pissed off demon nerds to kill before they slice my flesh to ribbons and make pulled pork sandwiches outta my ass. I got a rocket launcher fairly early on, but with limited rocket ammo I wasn't able to use it very often, so I had to rely on the ol boomstick and The Chaingun most of the time. Having to cut down hundreds upon hundreds of imps, demons, and especially cacodemons and hell knights with only those two weapons sucked, and I was pretty sick of it by map04. A super shotgun on map03 would have been a godsend. I eventually started MDKing higher health monsters like hellknights and cacodemons, and groaning like a dead goat whenever a horde of monsters would reveal itself.

Second of all, the monster selection was pretty limited, with only zombos, impos, daemons, hellknights and cacos making appearances. This made things pretty boring and predictable, with little variety. Now, this wouldn't be much of a problem if the maps were smaller, but these are BIG ASSED LEVELS that are highly complex in their layout and have monster counts hovering around 370. If this were a doom 1 wad that'd be understandable, but this being a wad for Doom 2 it felt like a missed opportunity.

Third, I felt like the fights were all very samey too, with only a select few battles standing out in my head. This made the limited monster variety problem even worse I think. I know you said you did this on purpose, preferring small free form skirmishes over scripted elaborate battles, but I feel like it made things too stale, especially given how large the levels are. By map05 and map06, I just started to speedrun the levels because I didn't want to shotgun hellknights and demons anymore. Overall it's a decent wad with cool visuals and a great atmosphere, and I can appreciate that you went for something a little different, but I think the resulting product didn't turn out so great gameplay-wise. Seems like it'd play better in coop or something, as playing it single player becomes extremely monotonous and plodding, for me anyway.

Old Post 04-23-13 09:49
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Graf Zahl
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Registered: 01-03


So...

I finally had some time to check this out.

Unfortunately, for me this doesn't even come close to the first UAC Ultra which was a great mod overall.

The level design overall was ok but unfortunately this is the only positive I can say about this.

So, sadly, all I can give is a list of the big issues I had with this:

- the music. Sorry, but this is just incredibly awful. Did you just try to find the most awful metal-inspired MIDIs around or what? They perfectly ruin the entire experience all at once and prompted me to quickly change to something less annoying.

- the textures. They all look the same, there's very little diffentiation between them. It's all some grayish decayed metal type, making the maps all look the same. It's also a visually extremely unpleasant style, if not just plain ugly, so after the music it's the second thing bringing this mod down seriously.

- lack of skill levels. I hope this will eventually change but having an UV-style skill as the only option will not make this fun for many players.


So sorry, I really liked your previous maps, both UAC Ultra 1 and your standalone maps - but this one quickly found its rightful place in the trash bin.

Old Post 04-23-13 10:28
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DeathevokatioN
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Registered: 03-10


The music here is terrible in my opinion and needs more variety, I hope 40oz changes it because it really destroys the atmosphere. Other than that the level design was quite cool and I liked the abstract shapes and rooms you used, I need to play it a bit more to get a full opinion though.

Old Post 04-23-13 10:58
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