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AlekTheNerd
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Recently, I've been thinking of archiving a set of files, so I've been researching file formats to choose, and I eventually stumbled onto the concepts of "lossy" (causes loss of some data from the original file) and "lossless" (keeps all data) compression formats. I made the connection that lossy formats tend to compress files more than lossless formats, and the fact that the RAR format has greater compression capabilities than ZIP, so I'm slightly worried that if I use RAR, I might lose some data in the process of archiving. So this brings me to the question: are RAR files lossy or lossless?
Also, yes, I am just posting this here because I'm too lazy to make a Yahoo! account and ask this question on Yahoo! Answers.

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Old Post 05-07-13 10:10
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fraggle
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Lossless.

You won't find any "general compression" tool (like .zip, .rar, etc.) that is lossy. Lossy compression is only ever used for specific, targeted uses where it's appropriate, like audio (.mp3) or photos (.jpg).

Old Post 05-07-13 10:20
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Gez
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Also, 7z is better for compression and archiving than RAR. There's no real reason to use RAR now.

Old Post 05-07-13 10:49
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AlekTheNerd
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Thanks for the help, guys.

Old Post 05-07-13 10:52
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Nomad
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Also if I'm not mistaken, .rar is a proprietary format while 7z is free, no?

Old Post 05-07-13 14:26
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printz
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Gez said:
Also, 7z is better for compression and archiving than RAR. There's no real reason to use RAR now.
Does the 7z utility read all the formats that WinRAR does (other than RAR)?

Also, is the 7z decompressing algorithm as fast as ZIP to use in big archives like ZDoom packs? The one time I tried with Doom Builder, it ultimately failed after waiting awhile to decompress it, so I reverted to ZIP.

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Old Post 05-07-13 14:30
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Maes
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printz said:
Does the 7z utility read all the formats that WinRAR does (other than RAR)?


Almost all of them. Some kinds of .rar archives (specially encrypted or created with the most advanced .rar algorithms) might be unreadable, though.


printz said:
Also, is the 7z decompressing algorithm as fast as ZIP to use in big archives like ZDoom packs? The one time I tried with Doom Builder, it ultimately failed after waiting awhile to decompress it, so I reverted to ZIP.


If you don't use single-block archiving, it should be similar in performance when decompressing single files. If you use single-block compression, it has to decode the entire archive before unpacking a particular file, so it might appear slower.

If you use .7z to create .zip files, there should be no difference. Keep in mind that ZDoom only reads .zip files (or .pk3, which is the same), not .7z

Also, 7-zip first decompresses to the temporary directory, before unpacking, unless you explicitly specify a decompression target (if you simply use the context menu and say "unpack here", it will first create a temporary file, then copy them). This requires extra space and time.

Old Post 05-07-13 14:48
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Maes said:
Keep in mind that ZDoom only reads .zip files (or .pk3, which is the same), not .7z
Nope.

Old Post 05-07-13 15:28
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fraggle
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Nomad said:
Also if I'm not mistaken, .rar is a proprietary format while 7z is free, no?
This is basically true, though some of the details of the .rar format are known - there's a free tool that can decompress some .rar files for example.

Old Post 05-07-13 18:22
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AlekTheNerd
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Nomad said:
Also if I'm not mistaken, .rar is a proprietary format while 7z is free, no?

WinRAR, after 40 days, bitches at me whenever I open it, but since the programmer(s) obviously didn't know how to properly program trial programs, I can still use it. Not really a problem, because of the lenient programming.

Last edited by AlekTheNerd on 05-08-13 at 12:23

Old Post 05-07-13 21:50
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printz
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Interesting suggestions here. So if the 7z utility for Windows supports RAR files, then I can use that instead of WinRAR…

But I'm not convinced of using 7z instead of ZIP, because of logistics concerns. ZIP is readily supported on every modern computer. 7z may be a new thing for many people. RAR is still familiar to them; I receive many RARs from colleagues and teachers; probably because of the prominent Windows Explorer shell menu items for RAR, much more so than the discreet "Send To/Compressed (Zip) Folder" for ZIP.

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Old Post 05-07-13 22:10
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Maes
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RAR got a foothold in the warez/p2p/torrent communities because it allowed for a clean volume-splitting system, just like .ARJ archives did in the past. Many releases are still split accross multiple .RAR files, and much more rarely accross .zip files. I still occasionally see releases broken down in 1.44M volumes, though ???

Why RAR/ARJ? Because .zip never had a proper mechanism to span a file across multiple archives, and so-called "zip splitters" just rearranged files trying to keep each volume below the maximum (if possible), or used the OS's file-splitting utility to split a normal .zip file (so you had to manually string the "multi part zip" together with the OS's copy/cat command).

ARJ and later RAR, OTOH, had proper multi-volume support and could split files across archives without wasting a single byte, and each volume was still individually readable as a legal ARJ/RAR file with a proper index and CRC records, something which is not true of "multi volume zips".

7z has this feature too, and because of the aforementioned "tradition", NOT supporting RAR/ARJ too would be suicidal.

Old Post 05-07-13 22:45
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Nomad
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AlekTheNerd said:

WinRAR, after 40 days, bitches at me whenever I open it, but since the programmer(s) obviously didn't know how to properly program trial programs, I can still use it. Not really a problem, because of the mediocre programming.



I don't think they meant for it to disable the program. The "trial" is just what is known as Nagware. It continues to function but will nag you to register constantly. Half the time you can avoid the dialog by using your right-click menus in Windows Explorer to manipulate archives rather than opening the archives directly.

Old Post 05-08-13 00:50
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AlekTheNerd
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Nomad said:
I don't think they meant for it to disable the program. The "trial" is just what is known as Nagware. It continues to function but will nag you to register constantly. Half the time you can avoid the dialog by using your right-click menus in Windows Explorer to manipulate archives rather than opening the archives directly.

They're still dipshits, considering the fact that it would be more of an inconvenience to re-install the program every 40 days than to spend a single second closing a window every time I open an archive or just open the program.

Old Post 05-08-13 02:52
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exp(x)


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AlekTheNerd said:
They're still dipshits, considering the fact that it would be more of an inconvenience to re-install the program every 40 days than to spend a single second closing a window every time I open an archive or just open the program.

You have quite the sense of entitlement, don't you?

Old Post 05-08-13 03:34
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Nomad
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Yeeeah. Well if it's that big of a deal you can go ahead and just use 7zip.

I don't think they're "dipshits" or "stupid." They probably just recognize that pirates gonna pirate and it's pretty fruitless to make them work harder to steal their software.

Old Post 05-08-13 04:44
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printz
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Anyway, I believe that companies are required anyway to have valid licenses for the software they use, right?

AlekTheNerd said:

They're still dipshits, considering the fact that it would be more of an inconvenience to re-install the program every 40 days than to spend a single second closing a window every time I open an archive or just open the program.

I doubt reinstalling resets the counter.

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Old Post 05-08-13 06:32
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AlekTheNerd
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exp(x) said:

You have quite the sense of entitlement, don't you?


How exactly do you conclude that from my statement? How? What? Why? Just... what?! To answer your question, no, I don't feel entitled to fuck all. When did I say that the nagware pissed me off? When did I say, "Oh, I like the program, but only if it would just shut the fuck up about how the trial's ended." I'm rarely legitimately pissed off by statements on the internet, but what in the shitting hell are you talking about? What's the base for your accusation? I'm simply bloody glad that I can use the fucking program, I don't give two flying shits if it nags me every time it opens, I only want to open archives other than ZIPs, and that's what WinRAR gives me, a program which can open archives other than ZIPs, sure, it's slightly annoying when the window pops up telling me that the trial has ended, but I don't really give a flying fuck about that.

Nomad said:
I don't think they're "dipshits" or "stupid." They probably just recognize that pirates gonna pirate and it's pretty fruitless to make them work harder to steal their software.

Anyone with half a brain would still, by technicality, pirate it under these circumstances, and just making it lock up would at least guarantee a few more sales, because some people just don't have the will to pirate a product for fear of possibly getting viruses, and would rather purchase a license without fear of serious problems than potentially get their computer fucked up.

Last edited by AlekTheNerd on 05-08-13 at 06:58

Old Post 05-08-13 06:42
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Maes
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AlekTheNerd said:
spend a single second closing a window every time I open an archive or just open the program.


ClickYES is your friend ;-)

Old Post 05-08-13 07:10
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AlekTheNerd
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Maes said:


ClickYES is your friend ;-)


It's not really that annoying, and I'm not even sure exactly how the program works, so it may not even function properly in my situation.

Old Post 05-08-13 07:32
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Nomad
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AlekTheNerd said:
Anyone with half a brain would still, by technicality, pirate it under these circumstances


Why? It's not that obtrusive. A small price to pay for using something for free. Still, I'd rather just use another program that's already offered for free than acquire a commercial piece of software illegally. But that's just me, of course.

Old Post 05-08-13 07:39
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AlekTheNerd said:
fuck . . . pissed . . . fuck . . . shitting hell . . . bloody . . . fucking . . . flying shits . . . flying fuck . . . fucked up.
Calm down before you blow a fuse or something.

Old Post 05-08-13 07:47
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AlekTheNerd
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Nomad said:
Why? It's not that obtrusive.

I used the term, "by technicality," meaning that anyone with half a brain would just keep on using it after the trial has ended, and just ignore the nagware part of the program, and the reason why I specifically used the term, "by technicality," is because doing that is essentially unorthodox piracy.

Last edited by AlekTheNerd on 05-08-13 at 08:06

Old Post 05-08-13 07:52
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chungy
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AlekTheNerd said:

WinRAR, after 40 days, bitches at me whenever I open it, but since the programmer(s) obviously didn't know how to properly program trial programs, I can still use it. Not really a problem, because of the mediocre programming.


So you feel that the programmers can't even handle a simple time-out scenario, yet you are still confident enough in their ability to handle your files without corrupting them?

Old Post 05-08-13 08:43
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AlekTheNerd
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chungy said:

So you feel that the programmers can't even handle a simple time-out scenario, yet you are still confident enough in their ability to handle your files without corrupting them?


You do know that the skills required to do those aren't really similar, right? Also, what about the possibility of different people programming the time-out mechanism and time-out result than those programming the algorithm for compression and other such important aspects? Also, to elaborate on what I meant: the dipshits who programmed the trial time-out didn't have even the slightest clue how marketing works.
Also, I trust that they can competently compress files because firstly, it's pretty damn mainstream to compress with the algorithm, secondly, because it's been shown consistently that it works fine, and thirdly, I've actually fucking compressed shit with it, and it's always done what it's meant to do: compress without screwing up the files, yet that doesn't change the fact that they don't know jackshit about how to make people buy their products.
In hindsight, I feel you've actually misunderstood me. Reading your post again, it seems that you think I don't believe they can program a time-out function, which explains why you think the two mentioned facts are comparable. Well they quite clearly can, because I've seen it work. I've had the trial for more than 40 fucking days, as I've mentioned earlier, and the program began bitching at me once I had it for 40 days so it quite clearly works, and anyone who doesn't believe so probably has a severe mental handicap. If I understand you correctly, I believe it's safe to say you probably just skimmed through my post without paying attention to fine details.
I feel the need to edit this post again, because I quite clearly stated that the time-out sequence functioned properly in my previous post, and your painful misunderstanding (which I feel is quite blatantly obvious) is exasperating to an extreme degree. I quite clearly stated that it worked, but didn't work in favor of the developer of the program. I can't properly explain how exasperating your statement is so, I'll just type a string of "what" and "why" after this.

What, why, what, why, why, what, why, what, what, why, what, why, what?

Last edited by AlekTheNerd on 05-08-13 at 09:11

Old Post 05-08-13 08:53
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esselfortium
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AlekTheNerd said:

What, why, what, why, why, what, why, what, what, why, what, why, what?


You have so perfectly summed up my thoughts that there's nothing more I can possibly say here.

Old Post 05-08-13 09:55
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printz
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I wish there was a GUI 7z utility for OS X too, that lets me browse the contents and edit it directly.

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Old Post 05-08-13 10:07
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chungy
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I found this pretty quickly. http://www.zipeg.com/

Old Post 05-08-13 10:15
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GreyGhost
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AlekTheNerd said:
I've had the trial for more than 40 fucking days, as I've mentioned earlier, and the program began bitching at me once I had it for 40 days so it quite clearly works, and anyone who doesn't believe so probably has a severe mental handicap.
I think the evaluation period is 45 days, so you might have cause to complain about being short-changed.


What, why, what, why, why, what, why, what, what, why, what, why, what?
AVGN - or just incapable of responding in a mature manner when something you post is challenged?

Old Post 05-08-13 11:14
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Khorus
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AlekTheNerd said:
BLAAARRGHH



You've acted like an ass to people trying to help you in two threads now. Good going, buddy.

Old Post 05-08-13 11:28
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