Progressive Fiction (Hadephobia now on /idgames)

Nope. Want it?

Well, this project gone too long. I'll put an end for this (in other words take the slot, DUH! :P JK)

However, I've got to finish my map for Memfis E3. And I still need to make a map for jdagnet's project. And I owe the Mega project of all mappers a map, though it is still in early stages so no problems.

Maybe this will be next on my list. And I hope I won't frustrate you. ;)

That's the spirit. It would be great to have another of your maps in the project as MAP14 is one of the highlights but don't spread yourself too thin with projects. I will keep the slot open until you're in a position to map.

Purist, I'll send you a PM regarding map24 in a moment.

Cell, I've played your remixes and will PM you some feedback. In a nutshell I didn't find a lot wrong with your changes specifically, but playing your maps again with a critical eye brought some issues to light that were either overlooked or not priority during the initial playtesting.

walter confalonieri said:

After a very long time, i finally managed to finish the bug-hunt trough the megawad, and so here's my impressions and other things:

Thanks for the bug report. I've been through the maps fixing where appropriate. I know Rambosee said he'd fix his own map but the changes were all quick and I've had a couple of hours spare so it's done now.

Here's a link to the latest version:

https://www.box.net/shared/b2119b47f334049ed6a8

I've updated the first page too. If you're updating your maps please take them out of the wad linked above.

Thanks again for playtesting walter. Did you have any thoughts gameplay-wise? I notice all your comments are texture alignments and such like.

I thought Rambosee took MAP24...

No more than you did. He's half made a map for a different project which he thinks might shoehorn into this one. I've suggested he completes it and sends it to me to see if it fits. If not he'll use it in a different project.

You could always map for the slot too and I'll take whichever map fits best.

I see, but I only need a clear idea of the "flow".

BTW, could you take a screenshot about that room you're talking about in MAP27 where it shows directly behind the baphonet? So I can have a clear idea of what to make.

EDIT: Never mind, found it.

You don't have to use that idea but I thought it was a good way of showing how Doomguy discovers the link between nukage and the baphomet. That area in MAP24 would have to be set 'below' the room in MAP27.

Looking forward to your map!

purist said:

Did you have any thoughts gameplay-wise? I notice all your comments are texture alignments and such like.

Actually not, gameplay are good for my taste, it's well balanced...

Hey

Just to tell you I'm now working on the map :(, it's because I'm going through a mapper's block.

So put your hopes on Ramboose, or someone else. :P

I've decided I will make MAP24 since everyone seems either uninterested, unavailable on unable. Expect a small but fearsome map with monster hordes, predominantly pure Hell scenery and the opportunity for occasional BFG spamming.

I'd like to somehow expand the story but it's difficult since this is the second but last piece in a 32 part jigsaw - any ideas will be considered :-)

Melon, I really want to get the first full beta draft out and offered to playtesters soon. How are you getting on with MAP30 - can you PM me a link of your work so far and story? If it's not ready before I finish MAP24 I will temporarily use your original MAP30 as a placeholder.

wow, cool....
another wad ready to be finished yay!

purist said:

I've decided I will make MAP24 since everyone seems either uninterested, unavailable on unable. Expect a small but fearsome map with monster hordes, predominantly pure Hell scenery and the opportunity for occasional BFG spamming.

I'd like to somehow expand the story but it's difficult since this is the second but last piece in a 32 part jigsaw - any ideas will be considered :-)

Melon, I really want to get the first full beta draft out and offered to playtesters soon. How are you getting on with MAP30 - can you PM me a link of your work so far and story? If it's not ready before I finish MAP24 I will temporarily use your original MAP30 as a placeholder.

Glad I checked the forum just before I went to bed, I'll throw what I have of map30 up for download when I can but I'm off to a cousin's wedding on Saturday and need to go to bed right now for an early rise tomorrow, so let's say Sunday.

Just a quick update since it's been a while. Somebody might care.

Grain of Salt and Melon have switched mapslots so Melon is now working on MAP25 and Grain of Salt has the last map. Both have work done to varying degrees of completeness and I think they will both be good maps.

I'm at a guess 66% done with MAP24. I am currently considering my third revision of the final battle and then need to play with balancing and difficulty settings but will post a draft here for playtesting hopefully within a week. Here's a pic, ripped from another thread:



Although it doesn't say so in the first post, magicsofa's MAP32 is pretty much done provided he's happy with the minor alterations I've made.

The linked version of the megawad is not quite up to date yet. Most prominently, MAP32 is not included and Grain of Salt's old MAP25 placeholder is still in there. I will hold off updating it until at least one other new map is ready to go in.

First draft of MAP24: Lifeblood is done. Playtesters would be welcome.

Here's the link: link

Here's some more pics:




The next week would be a great time for feedback as I am off work and will have some time on my hands. You can either PM me or post your comments to the thread.

Just two more maps to be completed when this one is done.

So this project has been going on for two years? It looks good and sounds interesting.

purist said:

First draft of MAP24: Lifeblood is done. Playtesters would be welcome.

Here's the link: link

Hey,

Not had the chance to play this as I only just got back home after being out all day. I'll do the usual first play demo but I'll try and finish MAP25 off first. I did quickly check to see how this level ends in Doom Builder and I'm glad it ends as it does as it fits in with the general theme of MAP25, hooray. (Current plans are to call it "Crimson Cavern", if that gives any hints about its theme.)

.

Retog said:

So this project has been going on for two years? It looks good and sounds interesting.

Yeah, we've overshot by coming up to a year soon. Hopefully, people will think it's worth the wait.

@Melon & Vaporizer: Thanks guys, let me know what you think. It's beatable but the difficulty varies depending on what secrets you find. The BFG is a game changer.

.

Thanks for playing Vaporizer. There was another 4 secrets, two of them are quite obscure and another is very deviously hidden but there is one you missed that I'm sure you'd get if you were to play again. I might add better visual clues to the two obscure ones.

The bezerk secret is a little pointless barring getting 100% secrets I suppose. Originally, it also contained a computer map but I moved that into an extra secret. I might change them again a bit.

I'm glad you enjoyed it overall, the bias towards cell weapons was intentional as Hadephobia doesn't really have much BFG action and it was something I wanted to try my hand at. Balancing ammo proved tricky due the discrepancy in efficiency between the PR and BFG. I hopefully solved this by having an ammo cache that seals off if you get the BFG. However, Melon might want to cell starve the player somewhat in MAP25 to balance out the carried over ammo for continuous play.

It sounds like you found a good solution for the blue key maze. It can be tricky...

Oooh purist, do you have a copy of Cell's MAP26? I know I've played it before but my copy of progfic.wad doesn't have it and I can't find any standalone wad with it on. I need to link my level to Cell's and I think it would be best to see the opening area of the level again.

MAP25 is almost in an uploadable state, you'll be glad to hear. I'll be uploading a first draft before I fully finish detailing it because it's easier to make gameplay changes before then if I need to. Maybe I can upload it tonight? Fingers crossed.

Oooh Melon (couldn't resist - sorry), yes I am glad to hear that MAP25 is in an uploadable state. I had no idea that you were so far on with it so it's a pleasant surprise. Good timing too, I have a little bit of free time to playtest at present. Speaking of which, while you're waiting for my notes you could return the favour and see if you find anything MAP24 to add to what Vaporizer has already reported.

Here's a link to what I believe is the most recent version of MAP26 by Cell: Pride of the Descent. I've included the story in case that helps you write yours. Speaking of which, I previously forgot to include MAP24's story in the upload so here's the story to Lifeblood. It was written before I made the map but holds up reasonably well.

Alright here's the first draft of MAP25. After holding up the project for so long I thought I should upload this map as soon as it was playable to get things moving, most areas are bland looking right now but that can change. All difficulty levels are done.

]Download

Anyway Cell's map didn't begin how I remembered it so I had to do some last minute tweaks, it looks a bit silly right now but I'll pretty up the exit area later.

Stuff kept changing substantially up until the last minute, the main area of this map funnily enough was made earlier today and the level underwent a reshuffle with me trashing stuff that was there before that wasn't very good. I'm always doing that.

Thanks to the late reshuffle changing the theme, the level is now called "Sacrifice". Given that I was making this before I looked at MAP24 and MAP26's stories I'm not really sure how to tie it in with the story so far but I'll work on that. No music yet either, the music I was using for MAP30 didn't seem to fit so I'm going to find some other.

I'm not around tomorrow but on Thursday I'll give your map a play purist.

EDIT: Oh crap, I meant to do something about the fact that this level is unplayable on co-op right now. Don't play it on co-op yet, because it's currently impossible to get the yellow key!

I was thinking about my level yesterday and thought some slight balance tweaks were in order so I've made some minor changes this morning:

]Download v2

The changes are pretty simple but they're aimed at making the level a bit fairer for first time players on UV. I think removing the soulsphere for the archvile fight on UV just made it too hard, it wasn't as fun to not be able to make any mistakes. Also made some ammo teaks and downgraded some non-threatening Hell Knights that were just a chore.

I've played both versions of Sacrifice. It's a really nice level. In terms of difficulty it has spikes and troughs, which will catch players off guard. Thematically, it fits in great - though I'm not sure what the title sacrifice refers to? One of my concerns was that HAD24 has lots of cells and the runover may spoil your map. I don't think it will be a massive problem having played your map though.


Here's my notes:

25.1 I'm not sure on my HAD24 exit as it's not exactly very dynamic. I might change it but if so don't worry. I'll either do it so so that it doesn't affect the start of your map or I'll do the extra editing work myself.

25.2 I didn't find any of the areas too bland but I'm not saying you shouldn't go ahead and add details or more architecture if you have plans. It's a nice coincidence that our styles match. (green marble, red caverns, copius amounts of blood)

25.3 Not sure on the spectres in the blood cavern. They don't really cause any bother once you know they're there (unless you miscount) but the first time you play they are a bit of an annoyance. Not a dealbreaker by any means.

25.4 If you are doing more aesthetical work the ceiling are notable for their flatness.

25.5 In the treble AV area (survivor of three revisions!) a degree of light variation or overall darkness would add a much needed forboding to the atmosphere.

25.6 In this same area I was finding it much tougher than I did before for some reason - has it been changed at all? Smaller pillars or maybe? Did MAP30 have a BFG to fight them with?

25.7 I like the rev raising from the blood but you might want to change the texture on the raising floor as it doesn't match the surrounding blood.

25.8 I'd consider changing the chaingunners that ambush the blue key since they attack you from both sides and there's no cover.

25.9 The small room where you get the yellow skull key needs a more hellish texture surrounding it than techbase grey. In this area, as well as the co-op issue, could it also break if a single player was stupid enough to leave the room and trigger the lava without picking up the key?

25.10 The lava cavern could do with some health. Maybe a bezerk to get the player back up to 100% since it hard to keep ahead of the lava and it's so damaging. I'd also replace or remove the arachnatrons. At least reduce it to one. There's no cover so they liquidate me every time. I assume you can do it but I couldn't so I god moded past this bit. I still love the concept though.

25.11 In this same area I just dash up the rocks as best I can in a panic until I reach the teleporter but I noticed some gargoyle head switches. I see in Doombuilder that they are switches but I can't figure out what they do?

25.11 You need to add some secrets, or at least one.

25.12 I agree you need new music as the stock music doesn't go either. PRIMEVAL has been a useful contributer in this regard. I could ask if he's free.

25.13 Don't forget your story.txt!

The bolded comments are the ones I'd focus on if I were you. The others were more observational.

The areas I didn't mention, such as the central area, ledge fight and final ambush I thought were all great. That central area is perfect for dealing with groups of dangerous monsters and you have a good knack of co-ordinating these semi-slaughter setups.


@Grain of Salt: We're drawing to a close now, have you got any further with the design of our finale?

Alright purist here's a two-pronged post dealing with both your level and mine.

As always, here's a first-time playthrough demo of your level on UV. If a picture says a thousand words, then a demo must be the complete works of Shakespeare. Watch out, it's a long one (45 minutes-ish I think?).
Download
In case you want to watch the demo first, my comments are in spoilers.

purist said:

I've played both versions of Sacrifice. It's a really nice level. In terms of difficulty it has spikes and troughs, which will catch players off guard. Thematically, it fits in great - though I'm not sure what the title sacrifice refers to? One of my concerns was that HAD24 has lots of cells and the runover may spoil your map. I don't think it will be a massive problem having played your map though.

The title refers to that final room with the sacrifice on the altar where the red key is, presumably a sacrifice to the Icon of Sin? His picture is on the walls surrounded by candles. That's what I was going for anyway, but I sort of hashed it out as an attempt to make my level at least somewhat relevant to the story. If anyone has better ideas, I'm all ears. I should actually write that story at some point, but I'm not really sold on the idea myself. I guess it would be funny if the Icon was like a god to the demons, who knew they were religious?

purist said:

Here's my notes:

25.3 Not sure on the spectres in the blood cavern. They don't really cause any bother once you know they're there (unless you miscount) but the first time you play they are a bit of an annoyance. Not a dealbreaker by any means.

I like the spectres because sometimes they find their way out of the cavern into the main area and sneak attack you, which was an accident but pretty awesome I think. However, not being able to see them half the time kind of blows so I've met you half way and turned them into regular demons. I've also changed the bloodfall in the "ledge" area so that if you want to go down there from the ledge you can actually shoot them instead of have them block you off. Makes it a bit friendlier for the player.

purist said:

25.5 In the treble AV area (survivor of three revisions!) a degree of light variation or overall darkness would add a much needed forboding to the atmosphere.

25.6 In this same area I was finding it much tougher than I did before for some reason - has it been changed at all? Smaller pillars or maybe? Did MAP30 have a BFG to fight them with?

Agreed with the lighting issue.

For the difficulty of the fight, MAP30 always had a BFG available for it which really changed how it played, but with the rest of the level how it is, I don't really want to give the player a BFG or it'll unbalance the rest. The pillars are the same width as they've always been. Given that a lot of players will be coming into the level with a BFG and a bunch of cells I think it might be OK to leave as is, but it's very useful to know that other people find the fight to be super hard. I'm not really sure what to do about it. :(

purist said:

25.7 I like the rev raising from the blood but you might want to change the texture on the raising floor as it doesn't match the surrounding blood.

25.8 I'd consider changing the chaingunners that ambush the blue key since they attack you from both sides and there's no cover.

The raising floor already has a blood texture :p There was a little grate that the blood drained away into but it won't hurt to remove it. I've also swapped the chaingunners for imps.

purist said:

25.9 The small room where you get the yellow skull key needs a more hellish texture surrounding it than techbase grey. In this area, as well as the co-op issue, could it also break if a single player was stupid enough to leave the room and trigger the lava without picking up the key?

Wow well spotted. This is an easy fix but yes it was possible. Also the walls are red, not grey :p but I'll swap them for something more hellish.

purist said:

25.10 The lava cavern could do with some health. Maybe a bezerk to get the player back up to 100% since it hard to keep ahead of the lava and it's so damaging. I'd also replace or remove the arachnatrons. At least reduce it to one. There's no cover so they liquidate me every time. I assume you can do it but I couldn't so I god moded past this bit. I still love the concept though.

Instead of adding more health I've decided to try out making the floor less damaging. I've also removed the three spiders and swapped them with two more mancubi but, I've placed them so that you're only really engaging with one at a time. Far less of a deathtrap now.

purist said:

25.11 In this same area I just dash up the rocks as best I can in a panic until I reach the teleporter but I noticed some gargoyle head switches. I see in Doombuilder that they are switches but I can't figure out what they do?

25.11 You need to add some secrets, or at least one.

The gargoyle switches are actually sort of a secret, they give you a BFG if you hit both, but I'm gonna change that to 200 cells because I don't really want the player to have a BFG. Originally I was planning on having a voodoo doll move over a secret floor if you do that, but of course it doesn't award you the secret so that doesn't work (I assume the voodoo doll gets the credit?). I'll look into adding another secret into the level (maybe a berserk pack).

purist said:

25.12 I agree you need new music as the stock music doesn't go either. PRIMEVAL has been a useful contributer in this regard. I could ask if he's free.

I'm always up for unique music but failing that I think this song might be cool (no hotlinking, copy it into your address bar): vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/gamecube/Eternal_Darkness_Final_Boss.mid

I'll upload a version 3 of the level when it's done. Got some ceilings to pretty up :)

Thanks for the notes and demo, Melon. I had a lot of fun watching that :-) I didn't demo your map, good thing too as the AV and lava areas would have been embarrasing.

I've briefly commented on your notes but will give you a proper changelog when V2 is done:

Melon said:

1) This level is awesome and I love the idea of a cells-only level. Took me a while to realise you close off a big cache of cells if you get the BFG, which I thought was smart. I had a lot of fun playing this.

Thank You! I think I can credit you with the concept actually, if it was indeed you that posted the demo of Rambosee's early version Drilling Station and mistakenly assumed you had only a BFG because all the other weapons where placed on the same spot.

Melon said:

2) I only really played it with the BFG but from what I played it looks like it works better with the BFG, I think killing all of those barons and revenants in that one room would either be very hard or dull with only the plasma, lots of time spent staying exposed or corner shooting, killing the revs on the ledge in particular.

You'd be right, it's designed for the BFG formost, but I like the fight that earns you the BFG too much to give it away. I will take your suggestions on the area you mention and may also alter the baron/AV maze for the same reason.

Melon said:

4) In what I assume was the end area with all the red rocks, the archviles need to go, or at least you need some cover. One of them decided to go for me immediately instead of sticking in a reviving loop and I couldn't avoid death. If I only had the plasma it'd be worse as I'd be gambling on pot luck stunning the archvile instead of a one hit KO.

You're actually quite safe as long as he doesn't knock you off the edge due to the amount of medikits (100% on each rock) you can use to recover. I can see why it's annoying so late in the level though. There was a mastermind still to fight also. I'll think of something. I have a few ideas.

Melon said:

5) I'm alright with the berserk being in the first secret. You won't use it for punching but it lets you eat a single blast of splash damage from the cyber and not be put in a critical situation for large chunks of the rest of the level.

Yeah, it's also useful if you're playing continuously and are starting the level on low health.

Melon said:

6) I didn't realise the slime was the Icon of Sin area until I looked on the automap. I feel like it would be cooler if you could actually explore that area, even if it's empty. Maybe there's a way to make that work, but it's no big deal.

Well, you would have already seen it from another angle in HAD22, which will give you a bit of a clue but I do agree it's hard to tell directly from behind. I'll see what I can do.

HAD25

Title/story

I was just curious about the title. I read it before I played the game and thought it might relate to a gameplay dynamic (giving up one thing for another). As it is, it makes good sense. IoS worship is a cool slant that adds a little without throwing off what's already in place. Will you be including your story.txt to the next version?

Triple AV fight

One struggle was being launched down the steps and having no time to scramble for cover. A couple of ideas to make this easier from pistol start:

1. Add a BFG - I know you don't want this to affect the rest of the level but you could get around this by making the door to this area require the yellow key. The map loses some non-linearity this way but it does force the player to play most the map with no BFG while still letting him use one in this fight.

Version (b) of this idea is to make the treble AV fight the last one rather than the rev/manc fight. This way you keep the same non-linearity and finish on the harder fight. In either of the above you should move the RL out of that area so it can be used earlier.

2. Add more cover. Make the pillars wider and add two more at the bottom of the steps. Maybe even have them flush to the wall to give you a safe spot for a few seconds.

You could also add an arch shaped room around the marble face window, though this might be too much cover.

Lava

Sensible changes. Lowering the lava damage would help but of the two I'd rather the resistance be thinned. It's the race against the raising lava that makes this section - not the battles. I'd prefer the player to think they're screwed if the lava catches up to them than allowing for them to stay in it to kill off the blocking monsters.

Music

That music seems fitting. I'll still contact PRIMEVAL as I think Cell wanted music for HAD26 and I wouldn't mind new music for HAD24.