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kildeth

NOVA: The Birth - v1.1 release now on idGames!

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Hi everyone, I am trying to get my maps finished for the Panophobia project where I seem to have more maps committed than anyone else. I still intend to get my Nova maps finished, so don't count me out Kildeth!

EDIT: In the first post, under the scraps/part completed section, is Phobus anomaly by Phobus up for grabs or is it just work in progress and still owned by the original author?

EDIT 2: Just spent an hour working on Hush, one of my maps for this project (probably the only one I'll end up submitting). I'm having difficulty working with the cityscape visible in my screenshots in the first page of this thread. The cityscape itself is fine, but I have extended the graveyard area and wanted to extend the view. Maybe someone can have a look at the map for me. My ideas tend to be too complex for the Doom engine to cope with. It involves the graveyard having a height of 128, and the cityscape having a height of 1500. I am getting a couple of hard to notice HOMS.

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Got around to playing the revised demo including Phobus Anomoly and Updated Map02 entry. Played them on UV -complevel 2. Here is what I think...

MAP01 Hazard Facility (kildeth):
+Huge improvement over the alpha. Way to Go!
+Unique use of space and interesting layout
-Some sharp edges here and there but nothing really show stopping.

MAP02 Sewage Processing (Arjak):
+I could beat the level now!
+I loved the cubby-hole items! You just don't see that anywhere.
-The encounters are repeatedly stop'n'go, predictable, and uninteresting.
-Ending could surly be better. Room near ending (with explosive barrels) was just long and frustrating to get through.
-This room was kinda of wonky in the light department...


MAP03 Paul D's Map:
+Looks and plays like its got a lot potential!
-Unfortunately if you look close enough at anything, it acts very wrong. Here are some pics to show you what I mean:


-Also when I entered into this room, the lift at the end doesn't take you down which prevents you from beating the level.


Phobus Anomaly (Phobus):
+Painfully fun. This level really makes you work to beat it!
+Its just a solid all around level. Great job!

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MajorRawne said:

In the first post, under the scraps/part completed section, is Phobus anomaly by Phobus up for grabs or is it just work in progress and still owned by the original author?

It's a complete map (barring any bug reports) ready for inclusion in the project's next Alpha (or whatever). It probably should be in the "Near-Finished Maps" section, really.

@fiend-of-hell: Thank you very much :)

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Hi everyone, I'm back! Just been busy with the electronic music I make. I'll update the first post now to reflect project updates. I think I must have got a little behind.

And welcome back MajorRawne! Good to hear 'Hush' is still being worked on, I was curious about that one.

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fiend-o-hell said:

MAP02 Sewage Processing (Arjak):
+I could beat the level now!
+I loved the cubby-hole items! You just don't see that anywhere.
-The encounters are repeatedly stop'n'go, predictable, and uninteresting.
-Ending could surly be better. Room near ending (with explosive barrels) was just long and frustrating to get through.
-This room was kinda of wonky in the light department...


1. I'm glad that my level is now more playable for you.

2. I'm glad you liked my idea of the item alcoves. I was inspired by the idea of a medical kit hanging on the wall in labs, schools and other such places, and decided that that was the best way to implement it in-game.

3. I'm sorry you found the enemy encounters bland. I don't know how I would change that without completely re-writing the level, but please give me suggestions on how to improve in the future via PM.

4. I'm sorry you didn't like the finale. I was trying to do a big action moment, where you must confront multiple baddies at once, constantly focused to avoid all that is thrown at you, but the way it worked out, it's infinitely easier to just stand in the door and wait for the monsters to come to you. I might try removing or moving some of the enemies by the door, to entice the player into entering right away...what do you think? Would that be a good idea, or is the room in general even worth attempting to fix as it is?

5. I don't understand what you mean by wonky lighting; could you please be more specific?

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A newbie MegaWAD project? Nice! I've always wanted to do one of these. Maybe I could put my unfinished TNT2 map to some use. :)

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Arjak said:

3. I'm sorry you found the enemy encounters bland. I don't know how I would change that without completely re-writing the level, but please give me suggestions on how to improve in the future via PM.

Sure thing!

4. I'm sorry you didn't like the finale...

Will PM you shortly on those suggestions...


5. I don't understand what you mean by wonky lighting; could you please be more specific?

My shots don't show it clearly, but you did not tag that corner sector with one of the blinking light specials, so it stays lit while the rest of the room blinks away. Also that cubby within the same room stays lit too. You could probably leave it dark.

On a side note, awesome tracks kildeth!

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Alright, today I'm going to fix some issues with the fortress level as well as maybe add some more areas to it. I'll post a link when it's done.

Most of the problems you noticed were mainly because I was getting tired of working on the map at the time and I just crapped it out as soon as I could before I got mad and put it in the trash can.

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I am considering doing a major revision of my map, making it longer and more involved. fiend-o-hell has commented on the abruptness of the ending, and therefore, I am considering adding more to the level. What do all of you think?

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@fiend-o-hell - Thanks!

@Paul D - Have patience with mapping! It's perfectly fine to leave a map for a few weeks and then begin working on it later if ideas and inspiration run out.

@Arjak - That sounds like a good idea!

@cannonball - Looks interesting, a bit of slaughterfest type map judging by the screenshots.

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kildeth said:

@cannonball - Looks interesting, a bit of slaughterfest type map judging by the screenshots.


I promise this won't be a slaughtermap, I can see where people get that feeling, after the flame war about slaughtfest2011 i think it's best to avoid that style of map, though slaughtermap was never my intention. Though this map will be hard.

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Here it is, The Prisoner
http://www.mediafire.com/?kjq9844w8wad3np
I think the end battle is probably too evil tbh but it would be nice to see what others think. Also I only tested this in pr-boom, so not sure whether this would crash in vanilla, i can't do it on my laptop :/
There's a random midi put in which I think suits the level, but this can be changed whenever.

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Wow, sorry to say it, but that level is effing terrible :P.
I've tried it maybe fifteen, twenty times on UV and I can't beat it.
It hits you hard when you aren't looking, and hits you harder when you are.

I'm trying to beat it from start (no saves) with keyboard controls, no secrets. Not even trying 100% kills, it doesn't feel like there is enough ammo to even do it unless you use secrets

Is the only way to beat it is to be able to save and use the secrets? I know the secrets are kind of easy to get, but I don't think that means that you should need them.

I like how the level gives you lots of opportunities to be tricky with monster infighting, and some of the encounters are pretty fun if you happen to have enough health and ammo by the time you reach them.

The blue key trap scared the hell out of me, didn't even bother to fight them, just ran out of there!

I think you should put more non-secret armor in this map.


Here are the demos of a few of my playthroughs. I played using prboom+.
01 was my first recorded run, 04 was a decent-ish run, gr was the one I messed up, and 07 was my best run before I stopped trying.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39292814/4%20demos.rar

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Paul D said:

Wow, sorry to say it, but that level is effing terrible :P.
etc......


Ah, yes I see I have been particulary cruel, I shall fix this immediately, unfortunately I went into speedrunner mindset.
Yeah I should add some extra ammo in open play, along with probably a backpack (think I know where to put it) and a green armour somewhere quite early in the level. I admire the honesty haha.
I should make it fair for people to survive some of the unfair situations I throw at you and make it possible to zip through the level at some reasonable pace. The blue key trap I though was one of the easier ones to fight as there is plentiful rocket ammo and quite a bit of room.

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I wanted to save the rockets for later, and I figured if I just ran for it I could skip those guys without a problem. The ammo problem is mainly in the very beginning, it gets better once you reach the blue key switch.

The archvile trap was one of the fairer ones actually, although one of my unrecorded playthroughs I blasted myself with a rocket.

Also (rarely), the cyberdemon doesn't immediately teleports away and manages to fire off a few rockets. Which didn't bother me, It was great for monster infighting.


I still haven't gotten as far as getting the yellow key, haha!

However, not to say you should make the level easy. When I wasn't getting the shit stomped out of me, I actually liked the overall progression of the level.

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You got more luck than me with the archie, he just always instantly revive the mancubus and things go horribly wrong.
I did cringe even in the best demo, anyway I've added a bit of ammo and some more armour and health bonuses, a green armour is found still quite late but it's in a place you have managed to get to. Check the other cells at the beginning now there are a few precious items to get through the beginning of the level.
The cyber issue I can't really do much with, I tried to make the teleporter work as well as possible. It's just one of those things unless someone can tell me a solution.
Also put a little added assistance at the beginning :)
here's the new file
http://www.mediafire.com/?squ5kczy99dzpqp
Good luck after the yellow key, you are really going to hate me.

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Actually it wasn't too bad;
The extra resources made the beginning loads easier, and after so many runs on this map, they actually end up making a good bank for later parts of the level. I'm pretty proud of a few of the chainsaw/berserk fist kills I pulled off in this recording.

Also I think this time I went through the blue door room like a badass, even though I pulled a cheapshot on a couple of those chaingunners.

But one of your traps is very lame and/or glitched/broken. I didn't even have time to do anything.

Here's the furthest I've gotten so far

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39292814/prsn-lol.lmp


WHERE DID HE COME FROM!?

Anyway this has been my, like, 30th run of your map... I'm starting to think I've attempted it more times than even you have cannonball! haha. I mean seriously, some areas of that recording I look like I'm not even trying.

Gonna do one more recorded run and post it in a bit.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39292814/prsn-sniped.lmp

Damn it, sniped by a chaingunner through that tiny crack. Course, once I got hit by the hellknights I was pretty much dead. I would have backtracked for medicine, but I was fairly sure I'd already used it all up because I was playing a little sloppy earlier.

Out of curiosity, could you record a demo of yourself playing the map cannonball? I would really like to see if it possible to beat this map with no saves.

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you were very close to beating the level, theres a linedef which lowers a wall to allow the cyber to teleport in, this is triggered when you try and hit that switch, actually I was thinking of changing the end fight anyway as people who know whats going to happen can actually get the cyber killed pretty much without firing a single shot.
I'm trying to do a demo, everything was fine until an imp somehow got crushed by thin air and well the archie revived him resulting in a ghost with the soul intention of trapping me :/ then I got fried.

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For Paul D
To make you feel better, heres me failing at my own map, so after handling 3hp for over a minute. Doom random number generator decides that my rockets are not as powerful as everyone elses.
http://www.mediafire.com/?l2lflqea8frkpx7
I have no luck at this game. I can do speedruns where barons take 6 or even 7 rockets to die every time. Mr Archie definitely trolls me just when I sense victory.

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I don't want to feel better, lol, I want to see if it is actually reasonable to be able to beat that map all in one go.

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Remember, these maps are going to be played in a sequence when the wad is finished. What might be exceptionally difficult from a pistol start might be somewahat less challenging with accumulated weapons and ammo from levels before it.

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Wow just watched your demo cannonball.

I'm getting better at your map than even you are!

and actually, the ammo isn't even really the problem anymore, the problem is that if you get hit by anything, you're pretty much screwed.

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This is very true Kildeth, it did need to be made a little fairer. I've made a couple of changes, some aesthetic in the final room. Also changed how the cyber comes in. He now does not appear at random, but is released when you release the spiders. The architecture should work in your favour.
http://www.mediafire.com/?f9x22yy6atlrxib
This should be beatable. In the end the looks and gameplay should just need tweaking rather than full scale redevelopment.Unless people find some more issues with the map.
I have to admit, revenants and chaingunners are used with servere prejudice in this map, would make the Casali brothers proud :P

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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39292814/prsn-hurrah.lmp

If I hadn't played it fifty times or so already, This run would have actually been pretty fun, haha!

In other news, I decided to revamp my new level idea into the one I've already made. Expect a huge revamp of the "fortress" level soon. I'm traveling this weekend, so probably some time next week I can release it. I've turned it into an "episode closer" level.

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kildeth said:

Remember, these maps are going to be played in a sequence when the wad is finished. What might be exceptionally difficult from a pistol start might be somewahat less challenging with accumulated weapons and ammo from levels before it.


All the same though, people (such as demo-runners) may be running these maps from a pistol start, and will be disappointed if one map can't be beaten from one.

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Phobus said:

All the same though, people (such as demo-runners) may be running these maps from a pistol start, and will be disappointed if one map can't be beaten from one.


When people are doing these from pistol start they will also be looking for the secrets. I'm not good at making secrets so they are pretty easy to spot and are very useful. My map pretty much has gone from hard with secrets and nigh on impossible without (which was an mistake on my behalf) to challenging with secrets and hard without. Which is a lot fairer.
As Paul has shown, this is possible even without secrets which means it should be ok.

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If they're going for the quickest possible time, secrets won't factor in unless they're also short-cuts. However, as Paul has beaten it anyway, I'd assume it is possible and not worry too much.

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Bumpity-bump! Just played the latest Alpha as a continuous 6 map set. Here's my thoughts:

In general, mappers could do with paying attention to things like DoomBuilder 2's autoalignment when splitting and moving linedefs, as things like doors are offset on the x-axis when they shouldn't be. Likewise, "lower-unpegged" should be set on DOORTRAK and other textures being used on the solid walls inside of doors. On the plus side, the included music is very nice!

MAP01 had a nice, chaotic layout with monster placement to match. Secrets were quite clever and took a bit of thinking about too, which was good. Ended up with plenty of ammo at the end, but throughout the map wasn't over-stocked or anything, so that seems fine. The looks aren't bad, but do seem a bit inconsistent (just to avoid using the word "chaotic" twice). Not sure what I'd do to improve them other than try and make the material transitions less harsh.

MAP02 was thoroughly over-stocked with easy-to-find secrets, which makes it very easy to play through. On the plus side the layout isn't bad. The motif of cubbyhole-items was a nice change of pace and the visuals were alright too - seemed a bit E1 to begin with. I did quite like the nested secret, as well as the secret nukage tunnel that leads back to an earlier part of the level. It's a good use of interconnectivity!

MAP03 looked alright, although the starting outer area walls could benefit from not being COMPSPAN and instead be some sort of bricks. My main complaint with this level is that all of the monster closets and opening walls are given away obviously on the automap and often with the texture alignment too. Made things very predictable. The SSG wasn't really much of a secret IMO and it would have probably been better off in the middle of the room where the Mancubi ambush you (preferably in the enclosed but where the supplies to trigger the ambush currently are). Monster placement might benefit from being less symmetrical as well

MAP04 seems like a break from the style of the others, as it's just one long, unexciting corridor packed with monsters. Visually it's more impressive than all that's come before, but the layout really lets it down. The traps are reasonably well executed, but the only interesting fight is the one where the Arch-Vile can join in with the Hell Knights and Baron of Hell after killing (yet another) horde of zombies. In a pistol start getting the SSG earlier might be nicer, as it was pretty much my default weapon for the map.

MAP05 looked nice and played pretty well (albeit quite easy). The only downsides were the switch with the DOORBLUE bars on either side (how are we meant to know to press it without looking at the automap in ZDoom?) and the "red" key card door, which is actually a blue key door. Managed to not find some of the monsters near the end, with the invisibility part remaining untouched for me. Had no idea what to do after pressing the computers and killing the Archie, so I just went for the exit (which rather overstocks you for a fight with a cyberdemon, I thought).

MAP06 is a completely different .WAD to the others. It looks pretty good, but outright confused me. First of all, why did I get instantly killed for skirting the lava pits? Surely I should at least actually fall in before dying? Secondly, where were 500 of the monsters? I managed to beat the map with a lot of save/die/loading (those cyberdemons seemed to fill the available space a bit too well for my liking), but somehow managed to avoid fighting 500 of the monsters, getting a kill count of around 380. Kind of glad I did though, as those that I did fight seemed like an ample challenge to me... Perhaps it's a ZDoom issue? I don't know.


All in all, I quite liked the first 3 maps and MAP05. MAP04 is a very dull idea that I've played too many times to count and MAP06 didn't quite seem to work right.

EDIT:

Outpost 3J was incredibly easy - definitely the clear MAP01 at the moment. The secret SSG was massively unnecessary, but well implemented. The map looks very nice and has a reasonable layout for a short, simple, easy map.

Also, why does Sewage Processing have a seperate link up from the one in the Alpha? At first glance the map has no clear differences?

EDIT 2:

The Prisoner is actually just a pretty damn good map! Felt rather Evilution and if I was looking for things to whinge about, I'd say that the monster closet door sides could use a bit of work (change to a door-track or support texture and check "lower-unpregged") and the majority of the monsters do seem to always be in front of you, making quite easy to pick and choose your battles, as well as allowing the player lots of breathing room. A bit too room-door-room, if you will.

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