Community Chest 4 (PUBLIC BETA PERIOD OVER!)

Thanks to everyone who put in long hours (years) on this.

Wow. Looks lovely. I knew it was going to be a great wad during my brief stay at CC4. esselfortium, NiGHTMARE et al.'s textures are damn good and turn the Doom experience from a boring deja vu into a fresh new experience (surely the levels also have to be interesting, but half the battle is won).

I've gone up to level 2 and died. What I hated was the music from those 2 maps, too happy and arcadey, and sure enough, it's imported from Nintendo stuff. I prefer Doom music to be more bittersweet than that. I'm tempted to play this wad without music, but I might miss good music.

FDAs for map11 to 15.


Map11 - another favorite. Unbridled creativity all over the place. Two FDAs for this one as the playtime is quite long and after a few deaths I felt like taking a break. I haven't finished the map as the final areas looked less interesting / more brutal, and getting killed 20 minutes in gets old as exploration is the highlight of this map rather than fighting. I'll probably play through the entire thing with saves at some point.

Linedef 16654 and 16659 are missing lower textures and cause a minor HOM once sector 2184 is lowered from a switch press.


Map12 - in my opinion, it's never good when a map is significantly easier to speed through than to play normally, and for what I've seen of this one it is just that. If you give me ample room to move, lots of hard monsters but no armor or powerful weapons, I'm not going to risk getting killed in one unlucky hit while thinning the horde, I'll just rush like a maniac as to minimize the amount of time I'm exposed to danger. After a few attempts, ultimately gave up slightly after lowering the blue key bars as monsters teleported right into me. Not saying it's bad, but definitely not my thing.


Map13 - starting outdoors with a plasma gun and a rocket launcher, tons of ammo, tons of health, a bunch of monsters and a catchy cheesy tune, what's not to like? It feels like a DM map gone crazy. Consider yourself forgiven for that other map, Phobus. ;)

One nitpick: killing the two cyberdemons guarding the exit with the plasma gun was a timesink. They pose no threat whatsoever the way they're placed, but as far as I could tell you're forced to get rid of them to progress. That said, having missed about a third of the monsters I might have missed a BFG or a better way to get through that part as well.


Map14 - quite a fun RL map, although it seemed glitchy as hell. In the chaingun room, there was some massive HOM on the floor - perhaps some sort of fancy software effect (I play in GL). Right after that, an arch-vile shoots at you through a solid wall (midtexture, but looks like any other wall). Then I picked up a secret and apparently fell into a HOM pit where the arch-vile finished me off.

Save for that it was great, some clever situations and entertaining moments in there - like those paratrooper revenants.


Map15 - "realistic" techbase, hence cramped, with obnoxious height changes and tedious music. At least it doesn't throw any cheap move at the player and getting through is a painless effort. Gets a "meh", no more, no less.

Sorry if the map has been an unpleasant experience.

Having been disappointed by the three maps preceding yours didn't help my mood, and seeing that start I had a major knee-jerk reaction. Obviously claiming it was trash after a mere minute of playing is exaggeration, and I'll come back to it at some point, especially seeing as dew said it's a good map.

I made FDAs for maps 01-17 and 31-32 today: DL. On 14 I got stuck in some illusio-pit so be sure to check it out.

+some visual glitches I noticed: http://www.wuala.com/kuchitsu/Doom_SCREEN/cc4pbeta.wad/

Phml said:

Then I picked up a secret and apparently fell into a HOM pit where the arch-vile finished me off.

Memfis said:

On 14 I got stuck in some illusio-pit so be sure to check it out.

Oh, shit... that's a nodebuilding error! Looks like DeepBSP decided to split that sector into two for no apparent reason. Well, that'll teach me to use it. I am fixing that for the final version post-haste!

EDIT: The third of Memfis' screenshots is an unclosed sector that went completely unnoticed during testing, including by the project's entire playtesting team. That's also getting fixed ASAP along with the other issues pictured.

Delicious! Just in time to bust my bandwith for this month. Downloading now, will post feedback later.

With ZDoom 2.6.0, I notced a texture bleed, that's only visible when you're moving around that area. It's in MAP01.

http://i.imgur.com/01kzK.png

I haven't fully explored the wad yet, mostly hopping around maps at the moment, but I'm just posting to say I absolutely loved map 27.

I have been repeatedly floored by the quality of the Doom modding community, with CC4 as the latest wad to blow me away. Thanks for this excellent release.

And now a slight nitpick:

BloodyAcid said:

With ZDoom 2.6.0, I notced a texture bleed, that's only visible when you're moving around that area. It's in MAP01.

http://i.imgur.com/01kzK.png

I also noticed a texture bleed on Map01 in roughly the same area while testing in ZDoom 2.5.0. I can't seem to get it in the screenshot, but while strafing back and forth at this spot, a texture bleed from the sky can be seen: http://www.imgur.com/z62kN

I didn't see all the levels but my first impression was that although there are a lot of great maps, it seems that the variety of styles are not as much as it was in CC3. (...Please don't throw rocks to me!) But it's not a big mistake. I'll try it more thoroughly but now I can't yet because my sound card is dead and I can't enjoy it as much without music and sounds.

You might consider removing WR linedefs opening and closing doors in map 11 (tagged 3 and 7). In case you manage to skip linedef (likely in speedruns), you can't open the door manually yourself.

Bad job, all of you. You should all be ashamed of yourselves...

...On opposite day.

It's great to see this WAD finally get out the door. I'm looking forward to TNT2, Interception, and some non-existent WAD to be released this year as well.

valkiriforce said:

some non-existent WAD

Dare I dream, Forward to Mercury C?

Seriously though I am salivating for the official release of this project.

Phml said:
The first issue is an usual one; putting ammo and health in small bits, and scattering them everywhere, around corners. With how tight the ammo is in this map, you have to hug every wall and bump
against every pillar. Not fun.

The other problem: the SSG. It's not obvious at all to see, you can't even get a look at it from normal ground level; and to even pick up the item, you have to go through a double platforming part, the first part arguably giving you a red herring with an earlier secret that might make you believe you have seen all there is to see there.

Speaking as the author, I definitely don't want the SSG moved. It's where it is quite deliberately, and I doubt any reasonably thorough Doomer is going to miss it.

As far as ammo/health goes, if there's a consensus in the public beta that these are in too short supply, then adding more is no big drama. I'm not sure that consensus will appear, though. Certainly none of the CC4 playtest group reported a problem, and the tcount stats indicate there's plenty of both.

Seems everyone dislikes my MAP04, which isn't really surprising seeing as I made it 4 years ago when I was still learning stuff.
Is it worth redoing bits of it, or is it better to leave it as it is, as an example of how bad I was back then?

Edit: Also, my midi on MAP11 seems to bug out after a while on fmod (some of the channels drop out), which is a problem I've encountered with one or two other midis as well. Anyone know why?

stewboy said:

Seems everyone dislikes my MAP04, which isn't really surprising seeing as I made it 4 years ago when I was still learning stuff.
Is it worth redoing bits of it, or is it better to leave it as it is, as an example of how bad I was back then?

it's a repetitive ssg grind. try cutting down on shells and adding early rl/rockets to force some weapon creativity. it should help increasing the pace without too much refurbishing.

Argh I'm so torn! I'd love to test this wad and provide feedback (especially for skills 2/3), but I really want to play the official, less-buggy release! I don't know what to do!

Also, congrats TGH! This is going to be a huge weight off your shoulders very soon! Great job sticking in there and dealing with everybody; I'm sure we all appreciate your persistence!

Just some technical stuff before I playtest ...

map 04 ...

not enough MP starts.

map 08 ...

L 02963 LineDef 2963 W1 OpenDoor O
L 02963 Sector tag 40 not found
L 04592 LineDef 4592 Scroll Floor
L 04592 Sector tag 63 not found
L 04595 LineDef 4595 Linear Current
L 04595 Sector tag 63 not found
S 00011 Sector 11 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 25 not found.
S 00660 Sector 660 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 62 not found.

map 10 ...

L 11919 LineDef 11919, type 126 requires a Sector tag
S 00612 Sector 612 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 43 not found.
S 00775 Sector 775 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 35 not found.

map 11...

L 05301 LineDef 5301 WR*MonsterTele
L 05301 Sector tag 24 not found
L 05302 LineDef 5302 WR*MonsterTele
L 05302 Sector tag 24 not found
L 05513 LineDef 5513 WR*MonsterTele
L 05513 Sector tag 24 not found
S 01300 Sector 1300 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 82 not found.

map 12 ...

L 05847 LineDef 5847 WR*MonsterTele
L 05847 Sector tag 4007 not found
L 05848 LineDef 5848 WR*MonsterTele
L 05848 Sector tag 4007 not found
L 08956 LineDef 8956 Sector Heights
L 08956 Sector tag 6008 not found
S 00818 Sector 818 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 3007 not found.
S 01274 Sector 1274 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 1008 not found.
S 01333 Sector 1333 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 1008 not found.
S 01362 Sector 1362 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 1008 not found.
S 01364 Sector 1364 Normal
-- 00000 LineDef tag 1008 not found.

map 14...

1. Line 9101 needs both sidedefs assigned to sector 2168.
2. Line 2955 needs both sidedefs assigned to sector 32.

map 16 ...

1. Line 4436 overlaps line 4431.
2. Line 4141 overlaps line 4136.
3. Line 3846 overlaps line 3841.
4. Assign back sidedefs of line 1112 to sector 275.
5. Delete line 2061 - it overlaps.

map 18 ...

Not enough MP starts.

map 22 ...

not enough MP starts.

map 24 ...

Line 4346 overlaps line 4558.

map 29 ...

1. Not enough MP starts.
2. T974 has its bounding box overlapping into the wall at line 5955 - might be stuck.

map 30 ...

Delete line 3932 as it overlaps line 7403, then assign the back sidedef of line 7403 to sector 972 and the front sidedef of line 7403 to sector 964 and then fill in the missing texture for line 7403.

map 32 ...

Line 2502 needs the 2 sided flag removed as it is a 1 sided line.

... now I'm off to playtest ... :)

FDAs for map21-28.

I made a few small improvements (hopefully) to map04. Nothing major, just put in an RL, widened a couple corridors, bit of other stuff.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?4871aojm7aj1at6

I wasn't sure how to properly separate out the map without breaking everything, so that link is the complete wad but with my edited map04.

I found a serious bug in MAP05

In the slime room sectors 187 and 1168 need to get their light levels changed from 176 to 175 or 160 because the SFALLx texture bleeds into the floor.

Bug in map 04 ...

MIDBARSA at sectors 264/718 bleeds into the floor in software renderers. Give sector 264 a brightness level of 153 to fix.

I will report issues as I come across them. If I repeat what someone has already reported or reports, my apologies in advance.

With the passing of the first day of public beta testing, I have added the bugfixes made as a result to the compilation changelog here, where they are separated from the compilation notes by serrated lines. Looking at the rest of the notes will make it clear how much I had to do to get this public beta together. :)

There is one point I'd like to address:

Phml said:

Map14 - quite a fun RL map, although it seemed glitchy as hell. In the chaingun room, there was some massive HOM on the floor - perhaps some sort of fancy software effect (I play in GL).

You are correct. In fact, that area, among other places in the level, uses the Mordeth bridge effect, which is currently not supported by most hardware renderers. The level cannot be edited to fix this without removing the effect entirely. This reminds me that a "Known Bugs" note will have to be added to mention this.

Jimmy91 said:

Icicles (4:39)

Up to you whether you use this or not, Dutch. :)
[/i][/b]

I'll check it out in a sec, the old one isn't a piece of shit though ;) [edit]Yep cool midi, I like it better than the old one. Thank you for letting me use it.

I will adress some issues with the Mancubi/Revenant trap near the end. Its not really hard with a BFG, but that weapon is in a secret room. So I'll probably kick out a few of Mancubus. You can also beat the trap with a Plasma rifle, but its really difficult and relies on having alot of luck.

I will also do some redisigning on the monster closets.

Played up to MAP09 so far, and I have to say it's an awesome achievement guys...

Maybe I'm not so picky but I haven't found a single thing wrong in the first 9 maps. Wow, just f'n wow!

Been checking out most of the maps, and it seems very good. My only complaint is subjective: too many maps with "Nintendo-music"!

Also it was very good to see a more old school-looking "Hell`s Limits" after map 20 and 21, phew :D

FDAs for 16 to 20.

Map16 - kind of an odd start, having a SG with a bunch of monsters around and no other weapons in sight. Taking them down would clearly take too long, leaving them alive makes exploring annoying. Anyway, running into that unclosed sector made me wonder if there was an updated version available, and I was bored already, so closed the game; not feeling like giving this map another go.


Map17 - started well with that outdoor area, went bad fast. It's a depressingly easy and repetitive slug; then near the end it turns into arch-vile spam on every fight, without appropriate ammo.


Map18 - I tend to hate city maps so ran around for 30 seconds and closed the game.


Map19 - entertaining, yet bordering on bullshit most of the time. Start is ridiculous, almost pitch black area with monsters heading towards you right away and you're supposed to turn around and take a shot at a switch? Come on now. Cybies mine fight was fun, but the arch-vile detracted from the whole thing. Cybie trap later on is silly hard. After running around for a while, with 2 monsters left and not finding a way to activate the exit, rocket launcher to the rescue!


Map20 - in space, nobody hears you bump into cramped architecture. Or so I thought until I reached the outdoor area. Way to shortsell your map with that start. :)

Great atmosphere, this can't be overstated. Gameplay is for the most part passable, giving you something to do while you ooh and aah at the environment, and that's okay, the visuals alone are more than enough to carry the map.

One issue I had though is there's only enough health to play very conservatively, and some traps are downrignt unfair on a first playthrough *and* become trivial after that (revs at yellow key, chaingunners/imps after teleporting). Hence I ultimately gave up, but will definitely replay this with saves. Nice one.

Lots of wall detailing here and there without impassable lines.

Speaking as the author, I definitely don't want the SSG moved. It's where it is quite deliberately, and I doubt any reasonably thorough Doomer is going to miss it.

As far as ammo/health goes, if there's a consensus in the public beta that these are in too short supply, then adding more is no big drama. I'm not sure that consensus will appear, though. Certainly none of the CC4 playtest group reported a problem, and the tcount stats indicate there's plenty of both.

"It's not that bad" and its variants never strike me as a convincing argument. Naming an automated program when talking about balance is downright worrying.

Explaining what is the point of having the SSG there, why is it important for it to be there rather than someplace else, how does it all fit in the flow of the map, and likewise with the ammo placement, would be much more interesting in my opinion.

Of course, you don't have to justify yourself to me. You certainly don't; but I just feel that, personally, if I can't describe any design choice I make based on what positive effect it has, it's probably a bad decision, or at the very least superfluous, and experience often confirms that notion. YMMV.

stewboy said:

Is it worth redoing bits of it, .....?

Haven't played this one yet but IMHO.. as long as the guys don't find a bug that breaks the map save your efforts for CC5 ; )

I also had a problem with Midi. In 02 after playing through 1 time, the volume went very low and after some time came back for a few seconds. Never had that happening before in any other map.

Nitpicking Stuff:
The Planet (I guess it's supposed to be a moon) in the Blues sky looks really weird in my opinion.
I guess it's because the halo is completely visible from all sides and makes it look wrong somehow. More like a hole rather than a planet. Besides that the sky looks awesome!

Map 02:
GREAT!!! excellent placement and pace! Total blast to play!
Just one cosmetic thing... in the area after the red door when you jump down into the pit... after pulling the switch, the light cones on the floor look ... strange (too short, maybe should be wider where they begin, maybe too brigt.... whatever. I can't tell without trying ; )



I just couldn't resist to do some quick map hopping.
From what I have seen so far everything looks and feels EXCELLENT and VERY promising.
The ONLY thing I'd like to mention. Pleaes do not raise the level of "realism" anymore then this for future releases.
As soon as I see a chair that's it for me ; )


Great Job of EVERYONE involved. THANK YOU!!!!


EDIT: forgot one last thing for now... also just a small graphic detail.
I guess the 32 "holes" in the Chestbox should resemble the 32 maps. But the cover doesn't seem to fit at all. Size and number of holes... even if there is a third piece in the middle that maybe lays on the floor somewhere outside the fov ; )

played through the whole wad online today, and it's freaking awesome. Map21 is soooo incredible, one of the most memorable maps in the past 5 years for me for sure, even though it's overly vrackish/dv2map19ish :p. I'm still stunned by visuals, and gameplay rocks too ofc.
Noticed only few misaligned/weird textures, and one bug on a lift to a soulsphere in the southern part of map14 (you can get stuck in the floor there somehow, happened several times), otherwise nothing to complain about really.

FDAs for 21 to 25.

Map21 - boring. Corridor, cartoony, silly music. Ran around for a bit and gave up quick.


Map22 - quite liked this one. It doesn't try to be fancy, but what it does, it does well. I got lost a bit and the MIDI seemed out of place, but those are nitpicks. Good fights and variety all the way through.


Map23 - another favorite. Lots of room given to the player, compared to the relatively frail opposition, but it works, makes it feel like a map where difficulty doesn't get in the way of fun. Likewise with an invul sphere thrown seemingly randomly 30 seconds in, letting the player choose how to use it rather than tie a very specific encounter to it. It's not devoid of challenge either as this freedom can lead you to take risks and get yourself into tricky situations. Liked the final cybie/stairs fight, a fitting end. Casual and fun, more of this please. :)


Map24 - excellent. Fantastic start scene, and it never lets down from that point on. It's rare I get immersed in a Doom map these days, especially a techbase, but this one really made me feel part of a world I wanted to explore. Gameplay hovered between decent and great; favorite part would have to be the destroyed rooftops, although on my playthrough revs cheated me out of the fight by coordinating an impressive gank on cybie.

Still, one complaint: the light AMP felt detrimental to the atmosphere, and the map was very dark at times even on gamma level 4. I would have liked an overall brightness raised by 16 and no light AMP much better.

Save for that, this map is pure gold. :)


Map25 - already played this one, it was released in public at some point.

Map 15
Shortly after the beginning you can see a courtyard when you look through the window.
If you look up there are two curved windows to the left.
Monsters can shoot through the glass in these windows.
I don't know if it's supposed to be this way but I guess not. Almost got killed by the Hellknight when he threw his green thing through the glass... it hit totally unexpected.