Doom 4 should have...

oh gosh those MIDI soundtracks, the only MIDI I did anjoy is the original DOOM1/DOOM2/(any other IWAD) MIDIS the rest did really suck, exept those from some 10-20 specific PWADS.

but then, PSX/64 DOOM came ... oh damn me to a pit of snakes :P

I like a great deal of the old Doom 1 and 2 Midi's for PC, especially the more ambient sounding ones which build up a great atmosphere. They are also great for covering, if you're a musician.

When I bought Final Doom for PSX I expected the game to be a straight port of the game that I loved on PC, but I turned out to be wrong. The atmospheric sounds and music almost make the game feel like a totaly new experience. It really makes you feel like you're stranded in some kind of desolate dimension. Williams did a brave thing by not making the PSX version of Doom a lazy port, and it worked well because according to Wikipedia the PSX version of Doom is one of the best selling ports of Doom out there.

The thing that makes the PC soundtrack stand out however, is its recognizability. You only have to play the first two riffs of E1M1 and most gaming people above the age of 22 will instantly know its Doom. If you look at it like that, you could safely say that id Software has found a great middle road between recognizability and dark ambient atmosphere in Doom 3. The theme song from Doom 3 is *******ely a memorable track and reminds me of progressive metal bands like Tool.

In terms of music and atmosphere, there's not much that can go wrong in Doom 4 I think. Doom 3 had a great sense of atmosphere, if you ignore the gameplay for a moment. The ambient score doesn't hold a candle to PSX Doom ofcourse, but it wasn't terribly bad either. If id Software would get an experienced musician onboard to provide the score, the sound department would be a lot more memorable I think. Aubrey Hodges perhaps? :)

Agentbromsnor said:

I like a great deal of the old Doom 1 and 2 Midi's for PC, especially the more ambient sounding ones which build up a great atmosphere. They are also great for covering, if you're a musician.

When I bought Final Doom for PSX I expected the game to be a straight port of the game that I loved on PC, but I turned out to be wrong. The atmospheric sounds and music almost make the game feel like a totaly new experience. It really makes you feel like you're stranded in some kind of desolate dimension. Williams did a brave thing by not making the PSX version of Doom a lazy port, and it worked well because according to Wikipedia the PSX version of Doom is one of the best selling ports of Doom out there.

The thing that makes the PC soundtrack stand out however, is its recognizability. You only have to play the first two riffs of E1M1 and most gaming people above the age of 22 will instantly know its Doom. If you look at it like that, you could safely say that id Software has found a great middle road between recognizability and dark ambient atmosphere in Doom 3. The theme song from Doom 3 is *******ely a memorable track and reminds me of progressive metal bands like Tool.

In terms of music and atmosphere, there's not much that can go wrong in Doom 4 I think. Doom 3 had a great sense of atmosphere, if you ignore the gameplay for a moment. The ambient score doesn't hold a candle to PSX Doom ofcourse, but it wasn't terribly bad either. If id Software would get an experienced musician onboard to provide the score, the sound department would be a lot more memorable I think. Aubrey Hodges perhaps? :)

The monster sounds were pretty good, especially the imp, one of the most recognizable monsters in gaming I think.

Dragonsbrethren said:

Super super shotgun.

It shall be called the Superer Shotgun.

Duke Nukem may have made the quad shotgun but Doom 4 could allow duel wielding or something.

Agentbromsnor said:

Aubrey Hodges perhaps? :)

He would go on my "stuff I want in Doom 4" list, but he hasn't done anything significant since Quake64. A bunch of generic soundracks for some generic games.

I'm not sure he could pull off the kind of greatness he was producing 14+ years ago.

I'm going to try out DOOM PSX.

I see what you guys want. You want a DOOM that is scary, but at the same time is actiony. Maybe DOOM PS1 or N64 music for dark, scary, areas. Then when you encounter a HUGE horde of enemies you have this fast paced SLAYER styled music blasting/aka DOOM 1 PC Music. So uh yeah.

This thread is full of the worst suggestions I've ever seen. It seems like everyone wants Doom 4 to be some insane and exaggerated version of what they perceive classic Doom as. "No reloading, player that runs 200 mph, slow and weak monsters, tons of heavy metal with no ambiance whatsoever, durr!" It's like they want Brutal Doom and Painkiller with the Doom logo on it or something. Doom also relies on atmosphere and ambiance, as well as exploration. While fast action and SOME heavy metal music are a part of it, it's not the only thing it does or should consist of.

I've seen that notion for a very long time when people talk about what they want from a "perfect" modern DOOM game. You can see that in many DOOM 3 mods where people just add some horrible weapon sounds with the volume twice as loud as it should be and make the weapons super overpowered. Brutal DOOM is another example, I think I have already mentioned it. Some actually consider it to be more "DOOMy" than the original one which kind of shows how deranged are opinions on what DOOM is all about.

idSoftware981 said:

I'm going to try out DOOM PSX.

I see what you guys want. You want a DOOM that is scary, but at the same time is actiony. Maybe DOOM PS1 or N64 music for dark, scary, areas. Then when you encounter a HUGE horde of enemies you have this fast paced SLAYER styled music blasting/aka DOOM 1 PC Music. So uh yeah.

AKA Doom PC music, which is NOTHING like Slayer what so ever.

Play PSX Doom some more, there's more than just the music that makes it a good port.

Sodaholic said:

This thread is full of the worst suggestions I've ever seen. It seems like everyone wants Doom 4 to be some insane and exaggerated version of what they perceive classic Doom as. "No reloading, player that runs 200 mph, slow and weak monsters, tons of heavy metal with no ambiance whatsoever, durr!" It's like they want Brutal Doom and Painkiller with the Doom logo on it or something. Doom also relies on atmosphere and ambiance, as well as exploration. While fast action and SOME heavy metal music are a part of it, it's not the only thing it does or should consist of.

Amen. If people want to play a game with no reloading and loud music, they should just play Serious Sam or Painkiller.

Agentbromsnor said:

Play PSX Doom some more, there's more than just the music that makes it a good port.

I'm still pissed off that Tim Willits called it a crappy port. By all means, it was an excellent port. The only major cons I can think of are that the framerate was capped at 15 (not great at all, but still playable, mind you) and that the Jaguar levels were used instead of the PC levels for the first three Doom 1 episodes, and that the archvile was missing.

Beyond that, all the other design choices are subjective. Darker levels, colored lighting, ambient music. Certainly different than the normal Doom experience, but not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Sodaholic said:

I'm still pissed off that Tim Willits called it a crappy port.

[citation needed]

Playstation DOOM 1 and PC DOOM 1 are very different games.

Playstation DOOM scares the shit out of you.

PC DOOM makes you feel like "BLARGH I'M ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER! VRIP AND ZEAR! BLARGH!"

DoomUK said:

[citation needed]

2:02 in this video.

idSoftware981 said:

Playstation DOOM 1 and PC DOOM 1 are very different games.

Playstation DOOM scares the shit out of you.

PC DOOM makes you feel like "BLARGH I'M ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER! VRIP AND ZEAR! BLARGH!"

You clearly haven't played much of either versions. I've been playing Doom and Wolfenstein 3D since 1993 and I think alot of fans can agree that Doom isn't about making you feel like Arnold Schwarzenegger in one of his silly Hollywood movies.

Doom was heavily inspired by the first Alien films. The initial idea behind Doom was to create a game based on Alien, but because of licensing issues, they made it their own seperate game.

Sodaholic said:

I'm still pissed off that Tim Willits called it a crappy port. By all means, it was an excellent port. The only major cons I can think of are that the framerate was capped at 15 (not great at all, but still playable, mind you) and that the Jaguar levels were used instead of the PC levels for the first three Doom 1 episodes, and that the archvile was missing.

Beyond that, all the other design choices are subjective. Darker levels, colored lighting, ambient music. Certainly different than the normal Doom experience, but not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Isn't Tim Willits a former Doom mapper? Seems to me he's just ignorant of console games.

Agentbromsnor said:

Isn't Tim Willits a former Doom mapper?

Define mapper. As I recall, his levels were designed by his sister (who subsequently became a lost soul in doom 3). He just put them into Doom.

Eris Falling said:

Define mapper. As I recall, his levels were designed by his sister (who subsequently became a lost soul in doom 3). He just put them into Doom.

Mapper, as in, somebody who used to make Doom maps for fun in his spare time.

Mapper, as in, somebody who used to make Doom maps for fun in his spare time.

As I say, they were mostly done by his sister anyway

Sodaholic said:

video

Eh, ok.

I can't say I respect his opinions on games all that much, anyway. If he left id and was replaced with a younger lead designer who knew what they're talking about I'm confident the company would make better games.

This reminds me. Anyways, I just played some Playstation DOOM today (on GZDOOM TC with HQN4X so everything looks smooth and not pixelated) and I got scared. I kept getting scared. Half of the time I was getting scared. Heck now even Toxin Refinery is scary as hell. It's so dark and green mist (which reminds me of Silent Hill 1 which is scary) the sound effects and atmospheric music (which reminds me of Resident Evil 1 for Playstation 1 (which was a scary game) It all blends together to make a really good survival-horror experience.


DOOM 4 should be like PSX DOOM/DOOM 64. I have changed my opinion. DOOM 4 should be like PSX DOOM. It should make you feel alone, like you are by yourself, no use of a flashlight (flashlights are for scaredy-cats), scary-ass monsters, limited ammo, secrets, and all around feel actiony and horrorish at the same time. I coin the term Survival-Action-Horror as the term for PSX DOOM. Playing PSX DOOM late at night by yourself on a PS2 on a widescreen TV, can develop the following systems... thoughts of being chased by huge-ass pink monsters, brown monsters (Imps) that shoot out fireballs, undead soldiers, and much more. The music can give nightmares.



But in all seriousness.. I love Playstation DOOM. I want to thank everyone here for getting me into it. Which reminds me, I can't wait till Christmas!


I'm getting Silent Hill 1, Silent Hill 2, Resident Evil 1 Director's Cut Dualshock Edition, Resident Evil 2, DOOM PS1, Final DOOM PS1, Alien Trilogy. And then to unwind from the horror, Duke Nukem Total Meltdown, Star Wars Dark Forces, and Powerslave. If you can name more PS1 games that are either survival-horror, survival-action-horror, or just straight up FPS let me know please.

idSoftware981 said:

DOOM 4 should make you feel alone, like you are by yourself, no use of a flashlight (flashlights are for scaredy-cats), scary-ass monsters, limited ammo, secrets, and all around feel actiony and horrorish at the same time. I coin the term Survival-Action-Horror as the term for PSX DOOM. Playing PSX DOOM late at night by yourself on a PS2 on a widescreen TV, can develop the following systems... thoughts of being chased by huge-ass pink monsters, brown monsters (Imps) that shoot out fireballs, undead soldiers, and much more. The music can give nightmares.

So, you want it to be kinda like Doom 3 again. Keep in mind, they're still going to use the Doom 3 monster designs (or something very close). There's no way in hell they're going back to the original cartoony clay model designs of the originals, and probably for the better. I do like the monster skins for Doom 3 that make it look like the originals, though. It makes them look a bit more interesting, but using the normal maps and overall physical shapes and design of the more recent ones looks much better. I think it'd be nice if they kept the same color schemes as the classic monsters, but toned it down and tweaked it a little, so as to not look out of place. I won't mind if they go for a more serious color scheme, though.

But at least on PSX Doom you could go on a badass killing spree if you wanted to. Examples being the end of Threshold of Pain, Redemption Denied, Suburbs, and if you were feeling badass, The Mansion.

Now don't get me wrong, DOOM 3 was awesome, but it relied TOO heavily on it's atmosphere for the gameplay factor. Whichever way you look at it, you aren't gonna get much of a killing spree from killing 1 imp at a time.

Eris Falling said:

But at least on PSX Doom you could go on a badass killing spree if you wanted to. Examples being the end of Threshold of Pain, Redemption Denied, Suburbs, and if you were feeling badass, The Mansion.

Now don't get me wrong, DOOM 3 was awesome, but it relied TOO heavily on it's atmosphere for the gameplay factor. Whichever way you look at it, you aren't gonna get much of a killing spree from killing 1 imp at a time.

I still can't see why a game like Doom can't be atmospheric with action focussed gameplay. Somehow alot of people (such as idSoftware981) seem to think that a game has to be either slow paced survival horror or balls to the wall Rambo gameplay.

To me, it never felt for example like PSX Doom's atmosphere got in the way of the action. If anything, it blended together more nicely in a way that only a Doom game can pull off.

Yeah, PSX was without a doubt a perfect mix of atmosphere and action, and like I say, nothing wrong with either PC Doom, or Doom 3, but PSX Doom took the best from both of them.

Inb4 "Doom 3 came after PSX Doom"

Regarding monster designs, I know DOOM 3 ones are getting a lot of criticism but I wouldn't mind seeing some of them in DOOM 4. And by that I practiculary mean Pinky. I love its D3 version. Once upon a time I've seen a fanart where he had skeletal legs instead of robotic ones and that looked pretty cool. D3ish Pinky would be awesome.

I'd love to see D64 Pain Elemental (because DOOM II version is stupid) but they probably won't include that monster because all those Lost Souls would ruin the performance, even if there was a limit.

Actually..

Carmack said that Doom 4 Single Player will run at 30fps so you CAN have more enemies on you at one time, as that paired with graphics was 'painful' at 60FPS

I'm aware of that. I'm just imagining a situation where you already have "more" enemies and on top of that you get a PE that spams Lost Souls. All of this is solvable but for some reason I think they'd rather pit you against overwhelming ground forces rather than use up all the power to handle annoying Lost Souls.

Agentbromsnor said:

I still can't see why a game like Doom can't be atmospheric with action focussed gameplay. Somehow alot of people (such as idSoftware981) seem to think that a game has to be either slow paced survival horror or balls to the wall Rambo gameplay.

Exactly. Like I said earlier, it's possible to have the best of both worlds. Good to see others feel the same way.

Agentbromsnor said:

Sodaholic said:

This thread is full of the worst suggestions I've ever seen. It seems like everyone wants Doom 4 to be some insane and exaggerated version of what they perceive classic Doom as. "No reloading, player that runs 200 mph, slow and weak monsters, tons of heavy metal with no ambiance whatsoever, durr!" It's like they want Brutal Doom and Painkiller with the Doom logo on it or something. Doom also relies on atmosphere and ambiance, as well as exploration. While fast action and SOME heavy metal music are a part of it, it's not the only thing it does or should consist of.

Amen. If people want to play a game with no reloading and loud music, they should just play Serious Sam or Painkiller.

Yep, pretty much it. I need less so-called "oldschool" games like Serious Sam and Painkiller and more games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D. Slaughter games (and Slaughter Doom mods) may be fun for a while but it gets boring faster if it's non-stop hordes and hordes of enemies. They aren't my favorite approach on the genre.

Agentbromsnor said:

I still can't see why a game like Doom can't be atmospheric with action focussed gameplay. Somehow alot of people (such as idSoftware981) seem to think that a game has to be either slow paced survival horror or balls to the wall Rambo gameplay.

To me, it never felt for example like PSX Doom's atmosphere got in the way of the action. If anything, it blended together more nicely in a way that only a Doom game can pull off.

+1