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Doom 1 or 2?

Which one is your favorite?  

426 members have voted

  1. 1. Which one is your favorite?

    • DOOM/The Ultimate DOOM
      202
    • DOOM II: Hell on Earth
      224


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Maybe I'm an idiot but I don't much see the difference between coming across a locked door with blue trim and then going searching for a blue key to unlock it and being given the objective to disable a SAM site so that aircraft can bomb a target. Either way you have to complete an objective to advance in the level.

Someone mentioned highlighting switches which remove obstacles so that when you get to the obstacle you don't have to backtrack... What the fuck is the point of that? Just have no obstacle and no switch. The point of obstacles and switches is so that you come across the obstacle and go find a way to either get around it or remove it. If the map plays out so that you come across the switch before you reach the obstacle, the obstacle is just a waste of programming time.

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Face23785 said:

Maybe I'm an idiot but I don't much see the difference between coming across a locked door with blue trim and then going searching for a blue key to unlock it and being given the objective to disable a SAM site so that aircraft can bomb a target. Either way you have to complete an objective to advance in the level.


Thank you. Whether you're completing a mission objective or obtaining a power-up that lets you reach an area you couldn't get to before, it's all just dressed-up variations of finding a key for a door.

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Face23785 said:

Maybe I'm an idiot but I don't much see the difference between coming across a locked door with blue trim and then going searching for a blue key to unlock it and being given the objective to disable a SAM site so that aircraft can bomb a target. Either way you have to complete an objective to advance in the level.

Someone mentioned highlighting switches which remove obstacles so that when you get to the obstacle you don't have to backtrack... What the fuck is the point of that? Just have no obstacle and no switch. The point of obstacles and switches is so that you come across the obstacle and go find a way to either get around it or remove it. If the map plays out so that you come across the switch before you reach the obstacle, the obstacle is just a waste of programming time.

Uhhhh..... it's perfectly possible and rather common for a well-designed layout to loop back upon itself so that the player naturally and easily returns to the obstacle after clearing it, with little to no backtracking being done.

Obviously setting up a level so that players are likely to clear an obstacle before they even encounter it is poor design, but that isn't really what's being discussed here, I don't think. I don't think a requirement of interesting level design is having to regularly spend several minutes stumbling backwards through areas you've already played just to find your way back to whatever obstacle the switch you just pressed may or may not have unlocked.

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DeathevokatioN said:

What makes Doom 2 so special that you'd want to modify it to your standards when there are already a ton of user made mapsets that probably are? Is it because it's an official ID release?


Becasue I like many of Doom IIs maps, but think they'd be even better with some context given to them. What can I say? I'm an absolute sucker for atmosphere in games. I guess Sig-ma's point about imagination has some merit, becasue when I play Doom 2 I see the foundations for some exciting setting I wouldn't mind wondering around in killing demons in my minds eye.

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why that seems to be offensive idea to you.

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Captain Red said:

Becasue I like many of Doom IIs maps, but think they'd be even better with some context given to them. What can I say? I'm an absolute sucker for atmosphere in games. I guess Sig-ma's point about imagination has some merit, becasue when I play Doom 2 I see the foundations for some exciting setting I wouldn't mind wondering around in killing demons in my minds eye.

I'm genuinely puzzled as to why that seems to be offensive idea to you.

I read you as someone just coming in here to berate everyone who still loves Doom while at the same time trying to make a controversial project announcements threatening to take apart our sacred cow. Sorry about that. ;-)

I'm also a sucker for atmosphere in games and as a fan of Lovecraft's abstract work I also find a lot of atmosphere in Doom 2's deformed and abstract levels which don't make sense on a logical level yet set a nice and desolate mood for killing demons. It's Doom 2's atmosphere that was part of what drew me in.


If a team were to ever remake Doom 2 I'd prefer they started it from scratch though, and make each level based on it's Doom 2 counterpart but rework the layout to be different enough that the maps each feel like a new adventure but through the same updated theme as opposed to just adding a extra details, reworking thing placement a bit which IMO would be pretty much redundant, anyone with a year's mapping experience can do that.

If I'm not mistaken the team who's behind The Shores of Zdoom is doing things differently this time around and that project is coming along quite well, from the looks of it atleast.

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Hypothetical question:
So, if all the modern games don't have any real map design... wouldn't that mean that good map design is antiquated?

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Could it be that game designers of the past knew that the graphics they were working with were abstract and unrealistic, so to compensate for this they worked extra hard to make the level design, gameplay, and fun factor as good as they could? I could be wrong, but that's what I always thought.

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Vordakk said:

Could it be that game designers of the past knew that the graphics they were working with were abstract and unrealistic, so to compensate for this they worked extra hard to make the level design, gameplay, and fun factor as good as they could? I could be wrong, but that's what I always thought.

Personally I think that there are other factors that have changed the way game "levels" are created. The main one would be story and action. I think that games get better reviews if there is no chance that the gameplay will slow down and getting lost in a map can drive some people crazy. A good example would be Mass Effect where you basically run in a strait line. The maps are boring but the gameplay itself does not suffer because the fast passing and story driven plot makes it extremely exhilarating. I guarantee that this is the standpoint that the viewer approached Doom. I think it is safe to say that good maps are an antique feature in video games.

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Halflife 2 had very good map design and is a "modern" game.
There were many moments were it was really cool to get to a certain location or have another look at one and find something... even if it's just looking at a place from a different perspective.

I really disliked Valve and esp. Half life for it's artwork, main "hero" and some trends they ignited.
But after enjoying some of their work I have huge respect.

They are still too geeky and flabby for me but their success is understandable.

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Captain Red said:

I'm not really interested in having a dick wave about how good I am at old video games son, but There are people who post on these very forums and have done so for YEARS who admit that they've never actually finished Doom II without no clipping. You know why? Because the maps become cluster fucks of adventure game logic to get to the end of. Remember "The Living End (map29)"? you actually had to find a hidden door to finish that god damn map.

How about in Final Doom Plutiona "Impossible Mission (map22)"? You had to push a button to raise a platform to shoot some walls with demon faces on them to open a door someplace. The only clue was the button raised a platform. A puzzle like that had never come up before, nor was used since. It took me and my brother hours to work it out. A stupid puzzle out of absolutely nowhere.

While I don't think Doom would be improved with CoD like linear levels, It could learn a few things from modern video game design.

I agree with you.

The map28 shoot door sucks and I was very close to giving up and looking up how to get out of there. I started wallhumping and shooting everything almost as a joke and when the door opened my mouth was agape wondering if they really released the map like this. I like Sandy's maps but about right then I would have punched him.

Honestly when talking about having fun when you've spent hours trying to solve something I can agree. I loved trying to figure out puzzles in Zelda. You look at everything and think (sometimes for hours) and when you've finally got it you feel like you've used your intuition to solve a problem and it's gratifying.

On the other hand, some Doom levels it's more like OOPS I FORGOT TO HUMP THAT STRETCH OF WALL. Not what I consider gratifying.

Also I've said this before but I'll say it again. The abstractness of the levels doesn't bother me. Some of them are just ugly. Do I care that Suburbs doesn't look like suburbs? Not really. But when the level comes up I'm just struck by how bad it looks. I don't even want to keep playing at that point. And if something is making me not want to go on, it should be scary monsters, not ugly environments.

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I like DooM II maps a lot. I like exploration. I dislike DooM III maps because they're so linear. DooM II is actually very good in this department. It has a lot of landmarks, and levels are fairly easy to memorize with small practice. Now DooM 1 can be a nightmare, because it has so many featureless areas. Hexen has very confusing map design. DooM II is just great.

That reviewer is just close/minded. You could ask him to make a graph where Y axis would be game quality and X axis would be time. He would draw a straight line. Or at the very least, he would draw an increasing function without a second thought.

I finished Ultima 3 Exodus recently. It has actual 3D dungeons, imagine that ! And not 3D in the sense "monster looks different from different sides" (monsters are not visible in dungeons, they just ambush you). 3D as in "there can be multiple ladders on a level". You don't finish a level and go to the next one. It is possible in some cases, but in many you go back and forth between levels.
And Ultima 3 designers had the nerve to leave notes like "Map well!". Imagine that ! Player not only supposed to be good at orienteering, but to be able to create maps. A lost art. No minimap, no automap. Many dungeon levels in U3 have "strange wind" squares which extinguish your torch.

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Some of the maps may look a bit dated/abstract nowadays, but back in '95 I couldn't stop playing Doom II. I can't think of even one time when I ever thought "this architecture is lame" or anything along those lines (ooh, misaligned textures here, wtf!??)

I wonder if these people's taste changed over time, or maybe they just discovered the game many years later (after experiencing newer FPS).

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DooM II maps do look quite abstract, but I don't mind. They're very varied and that counts for me. I value gameplay the most.

There is a game which has both very good gameplay and has levels that match their names. I'm talking about Heretic. Hexen levels look even better, but they are terrible to play. Really, Hexen is probably the first linear and heavily scripted FPS. In a way it also has a lot of cutscenes - there are many scripted sequences which force you to wait.

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This has probably been asked way too many times but..

Which Doom game do you prefer? I honestly prefer the first for it's levels. I find them more fun. Though I find the gameplay in Doom 2 better.

What do you guys think?

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Yes, this question has been asked before. But your enthusiasm is appreciated :)

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Well I've never seen the question so I'm going to say Doom 2. New monsters and more creativity in the maps with more themes.

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I'll also say that Doom 1 has better maps whereas Doom 2 has the better gameplay. Though some of Doom 2's maps are flat out terrible I'd pick it as my favorite.

But that's out of THOSE choices. My absolute favorite Doom game is Final Doom on the PSX

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david-arquette said:

My absolute favorite Doom game is Final Doom on the PSX

Can't say it's my favourite Doom game, but I do prefer the level list of PSX Final Doom to PC Final Doom by quite a margin. It cut out all of the bad levels from TNT and Plutonia and effectively replaced them with the best of the Master Levels.

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Doom 1 has the strongest sense of pacing and atmosphere. Whilst we have had 18+ years to get acquainted with the items and the monsters, ther was a certain...giddiness in anticipating when you're going to find the rocket launcher or first be acquainted with various enemies. I like it when PWADs pace the length and difficulty of maps that way, too - rather than just giving the player an entire arsenal at the beginning of the game.

Doom 2's maps can drag on, but they have far more interesting tricks and combat scenarios than Doom 1, if nothing else. Personally I was never a particularly big fan of its maps until after the fact, because I was more accustomed to the leisurely feel of the first game's. When I began to play a fair share of PWADs though, I came to find the gameplay-focused style a lot more interesting.

But Doom 2 itself isn't wasn't a particularly memorable experience. For me personally, Plutonia is the token Doom 2 IWAD to play because it has both challenging gameplay and a far more interesting selection of textures and settings. I don't think I've ever even attempted to make a stock Doom 2 map - I love the Plutonia style far too much.

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I prefer doom 2 not just for new content, but for levels too. I love how open all town maps are.

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I prefer Doom 1, more memorable experiences and levels and music. Doom 2 does drag after a while, and tends to get a bit boring, and I hate the 'city' levels more or less because of the texture choices that pull on me or something.

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I can't decide between these two really because they're both really fun to play. Doom/The Ultimate Doom has the classic Doom feeling with the original monsters while Doom 2 introduces new monsters including the Icon of Sin. There's also the Super Shotgun in Doom 2 which is my favorite bullet weapon in the game.

Man they both have some real good stuff in each of them and it makes it hard to decide.

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I'd prefer Doom 1 for the good map designs and pretty much all of Romero's maps, but Doom 2 for the most fun. But both are even IMO.

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If I could only own one it would be Doom 2 because of the extra monsters, the SSG and the PWADs made for it.

I think Ultimate Doom has the edge on levels, just. The worst ones in Doom 2 certainly outstink the worst ones in Doom and there's not much between the two games for the best levels.

I think there's a difference in tone between the two sets. Doom gives me an impression of a horror adventure, while Doom 2 feels more run-and-gun and action orientated.

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