Question for TeamTNT: Eternal Doom 4 resource usage?

I have a question about the texture resources in Eternal Doom 4. It's something I had been wondering about for a while, but felt a bit uncomfortable asking.

As you know, Espi is sadly no longer with us.

Historically, Espi kindly allowed the usage of his artwork in other wads -- Suspended in Dusk and every one of his other solo releases on idgames specifically allow their contents to be reused.

Conversely, the ED4:RFO demo's text file states "Authors may NOT use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse. Permissions have been obtained from original authors for any of their resources modified or included in this file."

Espi crafted a set of beautiful castle textures for his ED4 contribution. Given that he's no longer alive and cannot personally clarify his intent with them, does anyone else who worked on ED4 or otherwise spoke personally with him while it was in development (Lüt?) have any idea whether these textures should fall under the free-reuse license that went with all of his self-released works?

Thanks.

I'm not quite sure why the prohibition of using the game's resources was included in the text file. Perhaps it was because there were plans to develop a more complete game. At this point it appears that this will not happen, and so I wonder if that prohibition is still needed. [If anything, there may be development of space-station levels and some snow-themed levels, but no plans for maps that use those castle textures.] However, it might be best to check with the project lead, Ty Halderman.

Also, I don't know if Espi actually created those castle textures. Again, Ty may be the person to ask. Chris Couleur, the other team member who made a significant contribution to the 7-map demo, may also know, but he remains "DooM dormant" for most of the year. When I get a chance, I'll go back into the project's development forums and see if there are any references to the source of the castle textures.

Thanks for looking into it.

The brick, stone, wood, and rock textures from map27 are Espi's original artwork to the best of my knowledge. I remember him at some point showing the progression of one from a pencil sketch to a finished texture, either on the forums or on instant message.

ReX said:

However, it might be best to check with the project lead, Ty Halderman.

Speaking of him and of textures:

Ty Halderman, long ago in the Daedalus news thread, said:

Pah. Amateur. You should see all the graphics in there we didn't even use :P

Actually, since I made all those graphics, once this thing settles down a bit I think I'll release them all to the community. I know some folks don't think much of them (too bland, green, whatever) but it might make for part of a useful resource kit.

I have other plans, and that particular part of the universe isn't where they'll be taking place.

The Daedalus Texture Pack never materialized and Daedalus itself comes with a text file prohibiting reuse. If someone contacts him about ED4, could they also ask him if he'd give his blessing for somebody else to create a Daedalus texture pack?

ReX said:

When I get a chance, I'll go back into the project's development forums and see if there are any references to the source of the castle textures.

I spent some time looking over all of Espi's posts on the EDIV forums, and didn't find anything that specifically indicates he developed textures for his map, but I did not find anything that indicated he had borrowed the textures from elsewhere either. There are, however, many references to the new resources he was adding to his map (which was developed independently of the resource wad that other maps used), and I tend to believe he created those textures himself.

As for using EDIV's resources, the text file notwithstanding, I personally have no objections to their free use. However, as I said before, this decision really rests with Ty and Chris, as they are the original TeamTNT members and EDIV was Chris' brain-child.

On a side note, I dug up a partial/early map Espi developed for the project. The textures are brown, rather than grey, and there's quite a bit of natural terrain thrown in with the castle architecture. Perhaps someone on the team can develop the map to its full potential if the EDIV expansion is revived.

ReX said:

On a side note, I dug up a partial/early map Espi developed for the project. The textures are brown, rather than grey, and there's quite a bit of natural terrain thrown in with the castle architecture. Perhaps someone on the team can develop the map to its full potential if the EDIV expansion is revived.

Oh wow... I remember him mentioning at one point on instant message that he was wanting to do a companion map to The Shrine featuring some extensive natural landscaping, after vertex slopes were implemented into ZDoom. This is the first I've heard of it actually existing in some form, though. I'd love to see it.

esselfortium said:

Oh wow... I remember him mentioning at one point on instant message that he was wanting to do a companion map to The Shrine featuring some extensive natural landscaping, after vertex slopes were implemented into ZDoom. This is the first I've heard of it actually existing in some form, though. I'd love to see it.

I didn't mean to get your hopes up. What I meant to say was that the incomplete map in the archive is one of his earliest efforts, not a sequel to The Shrine. He abandoned it and began what eventually became Map27.

He did mention on the forums that he had started work on Map28 (the sequel to The Shrine), but he did not upload anything to the ftp site. Here's what he said on Jan 18, 2008: "Actually I'm thinking of possibly making a map after map27 (if map 28 is taken by someone else then it needs to be moved to 26 I suppose), that would start you from the bottom of the exit pit. I have the start ready, and I copied over the doors that you couldn't open in map27. You can't open them from this side either, but it's a funny little detail if I can "connect" them between the maps. I doubt anyone would realize this though." It's clear he was considering a hub of sorts.

And this is what he said on March 10, 2008: "I do have a plan for map26: it would be a big open outdoors map leading to map 27. It would be in the same style, but with mostly natural landscape.

Map28 would be purely indoors, and would seem like the lower levels of map27. I was thinking of having some tech parts down there too, and as I said somewhere else on the forums, I could "connect" the currently blocked doors in map27 to map28.

I don't know when I can get to do this all though, since my right arm is messed up bad at the moment. Currently I have to use it as little as possible, so mapping is pretty much out of the question. Although I'm starting to get the hang of using the mouse with my left hand.. =p"

And here's what he said on March 28, 2009: "...there's the two RFO maps I planned. I actually started on the one that would continue from the exit of 27, but I just couldn't get anything out of it really. It probably won't be anywhere near as big as 27 if I can actually get it done. Haven't started on the big outdoors map idea at all yet." This was just about a month before he learned that his disease had taken a turn for the worse.

Based on Espi's overall plan, some of the other team members had discussed continuing his work. Unfortunately, with the splintering of the team, that vision did not materialize.

ReX said:

However, as I said before, this decision really rests with Ty and Chris, as they are the original TeamTNT members and EDIV was Chris' brain-child.

I recently sent Ty an email (to his zebok address) but got no response. Has anyone else been able to raise him?

Have you tried the email on this page?

I think it has always been ok to use all the eternal textures. I have no problem with it and would like to see them used.

Chris