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LittleTemple

Little Doomlings Still exist! (Demon Laden, Vanilla wad)

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What does google have to do with it? You can show me, if you'd like.

As for letting go, I still don't get it. Let what go? Exactly? Someone here for all I know could be jealous or something and are just purposely trying to start shit.

Hey, I didn't start the conspiracy theories!

I'm telling you what's up, and you're choosing to deny it! It's one thing to not believe it, but, to be a dick about it is pretty over the top, don't ya think?

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I found Abiagael's blog with the bombshell post on page 1 of Google results for her name, and posted it on IRC. Pavera and I were the first to notice the part where she says you're just one person posing as a group, and Tarnsman just happened to be the first to make a post about the findings.

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That still doesn't change the fact that someone on this forum sent her the email just to keep the crap car rolling, does it.

As for the "bombshell" post, I just explained that, didn't I? I've been talking to her for the last hour, send her an email yourself if you want. Shit, even if it isn't feedback on her music at least it'll be something so she'll know she isn't completely wasting her time doing anything DOOM related =P

There, I just gave you an opportunity to find things out for yourself instead of making up your own facts for whats going on. Either you take it, or you pretend I never said anything and just go on believing what you want.

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LittleTemple said:

That still doesn't change the fact that someone on this forum sent her the email just to keep the crap car rolling, does it.

As for the "bombshell" post, I just explained that, didn't I? I've been talking to her for the last hour, send her an email yourself if you want. Shit, even if it isn't feedback on her music at least it'll be something so she'll know she isn't completely wasting her time doing anything DOOM related =P

There, I just gave you an opportunity to find things out for yourself instead of making up your own facts for whats going on. Either you take it, or you pretend I never said anything and just go on believing what you want.


what are you talking about

in the writing on the blog,

They wouldn’t tell me what so I had a friend who is technologically inclined to nose around a bit. Apparently the “people” I had been working for in these last three or four months is just one person.


that's pretty cut and dry. No anonymous email message. If she got word from anyone it looks like someone she knew well enough to call a friend.

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There's also still the obvious falseness of your claims regarding "Gabrielle" who just so happens to have used a machine translator in drawing a Doom level as a test for a community she's never participated in.

FYI, someone young and inexperienced thinking that their creation was made by someone older with more experience is something that an actual human person would feel proud of, not insulted by.

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I don't really know for a fact that she was insulted. Maybe she was just curious to know if you guys were serious.

As for using a machine, if you know french, surely you can purposely misspell it without needing a machine.

As for the email abiageal received, I never said what it contained and neither did she (in her blog) and she hasn't said. She could've had someone go nosing around after she got said email. I never sent her an email telling her the project was cancelled, or that we had got in trouble, either.


So, you were saying?

Obviously, you could still email abiageal if you REALLY wanted to.

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This is simultaneously fun to watch and really depressing too.

Personally, I'm rooting for more Demon Laden anyway because the maps are fun and I'd like to think stuff like this could be not-made-up every now and then.

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LittleTemple said:

I don't really know for a fact that she was insulted. Maybe she was just curious to know if you guys were serious.

As for using a machine, if you know french, surely you can purposely misspell it without needing a machine.


There is a very specific way a machine fucks up translation that is extremely hard to purposely create. Sorry buddy but the square doesn't fit in the round hole.

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Tarnsman said:

There is a very specific way a machine fucks up translation that is extremely hard to purposely create. Sorry buddy but the square doesn't fit in the round hole.


Did you study this carefully when making those Hollywood translations?

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Expert #zdoom investigator Catoptromancy, with some assistance from xooz98, CSonicGo, and myself, have uncovered that this peculiar little mystery goes even deeper. LittleTemple has officially reached Inception territory.

Abiageal O'Meara isn't a real person, either.

EXHIBIT A, YouTube:

LittleTemple claimed to have discovered Abiageal via YouTube:

LittleTemple said:

As for Abiageal O'Meara, I seriously hardly know her. I found her youtube channel, played some of her stuff to the others and we thought it'd be fun to have a newbie in music (though I honestly think she's pretty good, I probably just didn't give her much to go on) work with some newbies who are mapping.


There were only 7 songs posted on the O'Meara YT account prior to the things listed as Doom soundtrack work for LittleTemple. Most of the non-LT-related videos have under 20 views, and the most any of them have is still under 100. Beyond that, O'Meara made references to doing work for LittleTemple's project on the same exact day that she registered on YouTube (registration date Oct 4, 2012, video posted Oct 4, 2012):

Abiageal O'Meara said:

A friend of mine asked me if I would like to do a soundtrack for a level pack. I hear it's for an old computer game called DOOM II.

First of all, there's a major discrepancy between Abiageal referring to "a friend" asking her to do a soundtrack, and LittleTemple claiming to "seriously hardly know her".

But more to the point, it is highly unlikely, to the point of virtual impossibility, that LittleTemple somehow stumbled across her completely unknown account and had her start writing music on the same day she registered it.

Amusingly, another early video's description mentions this:

Abiageal O'Meara said:

It's a neat track in a different way and I like it enough to keep it but I feel as though I have an alter-ego and me myself and I sat down and tossed in our own ideas.


I could probably just stop there, but let's keep going! The rabbit hole goes so much deeper!

EXHIBIT B, writing style:
There are a number of noticeable idiosyncrasies shared between LittleTemple's and O'Meara's writing styles, suggesting that they're actually coming from the same person.

Similar word choices and sentence progression, featuring incorrect comma usage around words that don't need them

LittleTemple said:

My point being that yes, she mainly does slower stuff but, if you give her a push, she can do fast stuff.

Abiageal O'Meara said:

It should be noted that, I have never done strict MIDI tracks before so, should someone request those, I will give it a go however, achieving the sound you may like in my current tracks may present problems as I would have to redo all my presets.


Improper use of the word "whom"

LittleTemple said:

It’s original enough that it stands out as a tribute to the man whom has inspired Ms. O’Meara.

Abiageal O'Meara said:

For anyone whom may be interested, here is the information! I am currently in the process of uploading every song to YouTube as well.


Use of allcaps "AND"

LittleTemple said:

If I could do that, Dimensions would be done AND not suffering map rewrites haha

Abiageal O'Meara said:

I know one thing, I'm done working with large mapping teams for games AND project leaders that are in a "group".


Frequent use of parenthesis

LittleTemple said:

Last summer a close friend of ours took a quick trip to France in order to bring a distant relative to the states. Our friend didn’t give too much info (she never does, FYI) and so we were naturally curious when our friend came back a few weeks later (I guess that’s what some people call a quick trip?).

Abiageal O'Meara said:

To make it somewhat blunt (sadly not any less confusing) someone (and I think I know whom) has been posing as me on the internet for probably over a month now.


Use of =) style emoticons

LittleTemple said:

Anyway, feel free to post feedback and whatnot. I realize it might not be much compared to folks around here who have been mapping for 15+ years but, for an 11 year old and 6 months of tinkering with something completely new to her, it isn’t half bad in my opinion =)

Abiageal O'Meara said:

This is all just to give everyone a little bit of an outline about me =)


Use of “, ”, and ’ rather than " and '

LittleTemple said:

Well, she is rather angelic and blonde but that isn’t quite the point. The point is, we met her, our friend yacked and yacked about her trip and Gabrielle seemed bored with the conversation (her English is rather poor) so she took a gander over to the computers and asked “What we were drawing”.

Abiageal O'Meara said:

Still, I’ve already run into some luck. Apparently this guy had his “alter ego” post on another DOOM related forum and when the project got abandoned, a single person requested I do some tracks for another Doom-like game.


Okay, that's about enough of that. Let's cut to the chase.

EXHIBIT C, the clincher:

In the O'Meara interview thread posted on Doomworld a while ago, she claimed to have been paid in advance for two more soundtracks:

Abiageal O'Meara said:

Aye, it's true. I didn't ask for money or any payments in fact I turned them down but, they insisted. Basically they paid me in advance for two more soundtracks in the future.


On the O'Meara blog page, Abiageal claims not to have been paid at all:

Abiageal O'Meara said:

I don’t care about the money though they, or he/she, did say I would get some kind of money. I know one thing, I’m done working with large mapping teams for games AND project leaders that are in a “group”.


LittleTemple doesn't dispute this:

LittleTemple said:

Also, the REASON abiageal hasn't been paid is simple. After the feedback on the soundtrack, we thought we'd discuss telling her to go ahead and fix the master tracks up to her liking. She probably wouldn't have taken the money if we hadn't let her fix it up anyway, though, I could be wrong.


This in and of itself is a direct enough contradiction that the entire charade falls apart. There are also a number of other clues, such as these obvious sockpuppet posts attempting to promote O'Meara's music, that I found when Googling the name.

Now the only mystery remaining is which estranged Doomworld user is behind all of this...

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tl;dr to follow

Just to play devil's advocate, I can understand someone lying in order to receive a million dollar inheritance or lying about a crime they committed to avoid jail time, but going to this much trouble, with irish songwriters and 11 year old french girls, just to get attention for a few random maps. It is so far fetched that it still might just be true, in spite of all the inconsistencies. See, the thing is, if I wanted to promote my maps like that, I could just tell you guys that I had an 11 year old daughter who did them. Which is something that would be virtually impossible for you guys to disprove, except by making assumptions and arguing until these assumptions appear true. So why bother with all this 'french girl' stuff and 'irish girl' stuff if it isn't true if I could just tell you some non-existent daughter did them? Much tougher to prove this.

Yeah I freely admit I could be wrong. I know I am carrying this 'innocent until proven guilty thing a looong way here, but that is how things are supposed to be, rather than this 'trial-by-forum, thing we have going on here.

It is funny how, when enough people come to believe something, that something takes on a momentum all of its own, and whether it is true or not kind of gets lost in the momentum of the argument.

Man, there are people I have never seen before posting on this thread. Talk about coming out of the woodwork! How does that work? I could start a conspiracy theory about our forum regulars creating dummy accounts so they can troll more. Again, this is very unlikely, but this is the internet, so anything is possible.

Though even me, who was inclined to accept Little Temple's story as 'certainly way out there but still perfectly possible', is finding it a challenge to accept the young girl mistranslating things intentionally. That part isn't sitting with me very well. And some things that essel and others have pointed out are certainly plausible and consistent. Not conclusive, but certainly plausible.

Though is it so far beyond the bounds of possibility that an 11 year old girl could be so gifted, even with the inconsistencies in the story? You guys all know that if you get three witnesses to a car accident, you are going to get three pretty different versions of what was a genuinely true event. Maybe just me, but there is still a possibility that everything that is going on here can be attributed to these differing perspectives. The assumption is that other people will work and think in the same way that we would in those same circumstances is a common one.

Anyway, this is all subjective on my part, and is just my 2c worth.

Tarnsman said:

It doesn't matter where the maps come from, exactly. (Well apart from the mapper's age, because I am going to judge a map by an 11 year-old a lot different than I would judge a map normally - which would be harmful to the whole constructive feedback thing)If LittleTemple wants to make maps, good. I'd be more than happy for him/her/them/whatever to continue to make maps, and provided they are honest about where they came from, I'd be happy to criticize them.

Unfortunately, Little Temple's posting style makes many of the very people you say it would be helpful to criticize their maps, not want to play their maps. And with it already being hard enough to get people to try "amateur" projects further agitating people by having what appear to be schizophrenic arguments with yourself on the forums, is not a good thing. Heck half the people who jumped on the DTS-T bashing bandwagon never played it and only experienced it because they watched me play it as they couldn't be bothered to play a subpar mapset to criticize it.

But that's not why Little Temple deserved to be bluntly told off, it's lying about an 11 year-old making maps. Not only does it shift the standards by which someone judges the maps, preventing honest and helpful criticism. It also makes even less people want to play their work. I think child mappers are really interesting, especially since I didn't start mapping until my mid-twenties (which is the only reason my first maps aren't total garbage), so it really pisses me off when someone lies about the age of a mapper for whatever reason, further compounded by Little Temple's refusal to admit when they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar, means that I honestly don't care about civility. If someone is willing to give up mapping because someone yelled at them, then obviously they didn't have that much passion for it in the first place.


You are correct in saying that anyone who gives up mapping because someone yells at them didn't have that much passion for it in the first place. This I agree with completely, and neither you or I will give up mapping for that reason.

But, and this is why I am so against this trolling of noobs, often when someone is just starting out, they don't actually know whether they have a passion for mapping or not. They are just trying it out. And whether they receive encouragement or trolling on these forums will determine whether that fledgling experimentation will turn into a genuine passion for mapping. Passion doesn't always start huge, it can grow from very small things, and this is where we lose so many potential mappers. You have an obvious talent for mapping, and you seem like you have the confidence to believe in your mapping skills also. That is a good thing. I remember you mentioning that your father was a mapper/modder of some sort, so you probably received encouragement from him when you started doing this. Don't underestimate how much that has probably helped you. Most people when they start out do not receive encouragement like that, and whether they persevere or not will be up to us here on these forums, rather than people they immediately know.

On another note, reading through my post to you last night, I realise I was doing the very thing I was accusing you of doing, ie, being rude and blunt, and not adding all that much to the discussion. So respect to you for replying to my post quite reasonably and my apologies for my bluntness.

That said, my point still stands, and I still think we would be better off just ignoring all of this, and just letting LittleTemple map in whichever form they choose.

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LittleTemple said:

I found Abiageal the day she joined youtube because well, that's how youtube works. Its there, and then its gone down behind pages and pages and pages of stuff.


You found this "girl" then on the same day decided to hire her for your doom project and PAY HER based off 1 extremely low quality track that sounds like someone just opened an audio creation program for the first time and face0rolled their keyboard. And in the same day she to not only respond to you but agree to do an entire soundtrack. Can I please have whatever the fuck it is that you're smoking, because I really need to enter a state of mind where that is even remotely plausible.

LittleTemple said:

As for writing style, really? come on. Everyone types the same on the internet.


No they don't. Because people have different understandings of the English language, different tics, different vocabulary levels, some people have disorders that make them fuck up simple and obvious things, etc... Humans are a very diverse group with extremely distinct traits. Sorry buddy you done fucked up and got caught, no amount of bullshikido is going to get you out of it. This isn't Washington, we can't play the "bury my head in the sand and blatantly lie until it goes away" game.

LittleTemple said:

Yes, we paid Abiageal O'Meara in advance for her three albums for projekt zero. at the time of her blogspot post, we hadn't paid her for the dimensions soundtrack.


How much did you pay her?

LittleTemple said:

As for your links. Isn't it completely possible that I wasn't the only one browsing youtube at the time she uploaded her first few tracks? I mean, the things pretty popular...


Except your ignoring your own contradictions, when posting as Little Temple you said that you discovered her via youtube, but when posting as Irish McIrishy you said that a friend asked you to make the soundtrack. Sorry, that bird don't fly.

I understand the need to attention whore is strong but it's just sad now.

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LittleTemple said:

I found Abiageal the day she joined youtube because well, that's how youtube works. Its there, and then its gone down behind pages and pages and pages of stuff.

That's actually not how YouTube works at all, friend. To my knowledge, there is no page anywhere on YT that displays the most recent uploaded videos by every random account on the entire site. And even if there was, it would update multiple thousand times per minute, so your supposed encounter with Abiageal would have to be a literal millisecond chance meeting of fate. That'd be pretty incredible.

As for writing style, really? come on. Everyone types the same on the internet.

This is also pretty obviously untrue.

Yes, we paid Abiageal O'Meara in advance for her three albums for projekt zero. at the time of her blogspot post, we hadn't paid her for the dimensions soundtrack.

But "Projekt Xero" was cancelled and never completed, Abiageal said. She couldn't have possibly completed the soundtrack for it, based on dates of events alone. Logically, the Dimensions soundtrack would've been considered part of the same "three-album" commission you had already paid, if any of this was remotely true. So, no, this is also an obvious lie.

As for your links. Isn't it completely possible that I wasn't the only one browsing youtube at the time she uploaded her first few tracks? I mean, the things pretty popular...

Like I explained above, YouTube doesn't work this way.

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Tarnsman said:

You found this "girl" then on the same day decided to hire her for your doom project and PAY HER based off 1 extremely low quality track that sounds like someone just opened an audio creation program for the first time and face0rolled their keyboard. And in the same day she to not only respond to you but agree to do an entire soundtrack. Can I please have whatever the fuck it is that you're smoking, because I really need to enter a state of mind where that is even remotely plausible.



No they don't. Because people have different understandings of the English language, different tics, different vocabulary levels, some people have disorders that make them fuck up simple and obvious things, etc... Humans are a very diverse group with extremely distinct traits, sorry buddy you done fucked up and got caught, no amount of bullshikido is going to get you out of it. This isn't Washington, we can't play the "bury my head in the sand and blatantly lie until it goes away" game.



How much did you pay her?



Except your ignoring your own contradictions, when posting as Little Temple you said that you discovered her via youtube, but when posting as Irish McIrishy you said that a friend asked you to make the soundtrack. Sorry, that bird don't fly.

I understand the need to attention whore is strong but it's just sad now.


Irish who?

FYI, we have a friend who knows abiageal o'meara (he lives in ireland) and when we saw her youtube, we asked him to ask her for us. when she talked to us, we asked her again.

no, we didn't pay her right away. she didn't accept right away, either, it actually took her a while. do you read youtube comments?

as for how much we paid her, that's really none of your damn business now is it?

and what do you have against 'The March' exactly? I think it's a perfectly fine intro cue.

Why would I cause drama for attention? You are just going all ass-hat now.

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LittleTemple said:

The Apple Macintosh version of Microsoft word adds "whom" as a grammar check on certain settings.

There's something a machine can do.


There is no series of words in the English language or reaction shot on the internet to properly convey just how stupid that is. Not only does Word not do that on the Mac or on any system for that matter but it would imply that both of you were typing your forum posts in word and then pasting them onto a forum as the Doomworld forums absolutely don't do that. Which further proves you're so full of shit that we need to build additional shit reservoirs simply to contain the flood of fecal matter spewing out in every direction from the gaping chasms in your web of lies. Please seek help, you clearly need it.

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esselfortium said:

That's actually not how YouTube works at all, friend. To my knowledge, there is no page anywhere on YT that displays the most recent uploaded videos by every random account on the entire site. And even if there was, it would update multiple thousand times per minute, so your supposed encounter with Abiageal would have to be a literal millisecond chance meeting of fate. That'd be pretty incredible.


This is also pretty obviously untrue.



But "Projekt Xero" was cancelled and never completed, Abiageal said. She couldn't have possibly completed the soundtrack for it, based on dates of events alone. Logically, the Dimensions soundtrack would've been considered part of the same "three-album" commission you had already paid, if any of this was remotely true. So, no, this is also an obvious lie.




Like I explained above, YouTube doesn't work this way.


That depends on how you use youtube. You don't know that I wasn't using a web browser. You don't know what the hell I was searching for.

Uh, I paid her in advance. The masters for a quarter of disc 3 are done as of december 17th last year. According to Abiageal O'Meara. Dimensions is her fourth albums. FYI.

EDIT:

Where does she say on that post that she didn't finish the soundtrack? Yes, we cancelled the wad but we never said she had to stop writing music for the planned soundtrack.

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Tarnsman said:

There is no series of words in the English language or reaction shot on the internet to properly convey just how stupid that is. Not only does Word not do that on the Mac or on any system for that matter but it would imply that both of you were typing your forum posts in word and then pasting them onto a forum as the Doomworld forums absolutely don't do that. Which further proves you're so full of shit that we need to build additional shit reservoirs simply to contain the flood of fecal matter spewing out in every direction from the gaping chasms in your web of lies. Please seek help, you clearly need it.


And how often do you use Microsoft word? Which version do you use? Did you customize the grammar checker to any presets? Or is this another one of your wisdoms like how you know such much about language translators. I use Word in my job. I think I'd know what I'm talking about.

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LittleTemple said:

You don't know that I wasn't using a web browser. You don't know what the hell I was searching for.

This is the guiltiest phrasing I've ever seen in my life.

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esselfortium said:

Now the only mystery remaining is which estranged Doomworld user is behind all of this...

k we get it essel, just look what Abiageal O'Meara spells backwards: Essel O'Fortium !!!

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LittleTemple said:

And how often do you use Microsoft word? Which version do you use? Did you customize the grammar checker to any presets? Or is this another one of your wisdoms like how you know such much about language translators. I use Word in my job. I think I'd know what I'm talking about.

So you're now claiming that both of you happen to be using Microsoft Word for forum posts (which is already very unlikely) but that you're also both using the same customized settings for it that screw with your grammar? And this is supposed to prove that you're not both the same person?

I think you're hilarious, is what :P

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I said customized preset. Not customized.

Why wouldn't abiageal O'meara use word to make a blog post? or some other word processor?

customized preset. An alternative to the default that comes with a product. Microsoft word, apple pages, pretty sure even open office has at least a few custom presets for the grammar checker.

EDIT:

Okay, let me see if I can figure this out.

You think that I pretend to be someone named abiageal o'meara to make music for my wads... why? Wouldn't it make me seem cooler if I did them myself?

I'm failing to see the reason behind why it would even remotely make sense for me to go through all of this trouble... only to struggle with completing all of the projects.

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LittleTemple said:

Irish who?

FYI, we have a friend who knows abiageal o'meara (he lives in ireland) and when we saw her youtube, we asked him to ask her for us. when she talked to us, we asked her again.

no, we didn't pay her right away. she didn't accept right away, either, it actually took her a while. do you read youtube comments?

as for how much we paid her, that's really none of your damn business now is it?

and what do you have against 'The March' exactly? I think it's a perfectly fine intro cue.

Why would I cause drama for attention? You are just going all ass-hat now.


1. So you have a friend who lives in Ireland who just happens to not only know the girl who you randomly found by COMPLETE FUCKING LUCK IN A ONE IN TEN BILLION SCENARIO but is also friends with her. There is a better chance of Teddy Roosevelt resurrecting and dick slapping every world leader on national television while I simultaneously win the lottery three times than that scenario happening.

2. You should be able to disclose just how much you paid her if you really did.

3. You'd cause drama for attention because you're clearly a very, very troubled person who I imagine gets off on it. Just do me a favor and get help before we find the basement full of naked starving women whom you force to play Jenga for your amusement.

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Dude just keep making awesome wads and music. We don't need a backstory.

Make a new account with a new name that noone knows, release awesome megawad with custom music and pretend this never happened.

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@Esselfortium

It's like there are so many clues, someone WANTS us to uncover the truth! It reminds me of that time Ben drowned.

I went back in time and made this account 9 months in advance of the Little Temple Account just so that I could post in this thread a year from when I registered!

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Tarnsman said:

1. So you have a friend who lives in Ireland who just happens to not only know the girl who you randomly found by COMPLETE FUCKING LUCK IN A ONE IN TEN BILLION SCENARIO but is also friends with her. There is a better chance of Teddy Roosevelt resurrecting and dick slapping every world leader on national television while I simultaneously win the lottery three times than that scenario happening.

2. You should be able to disclose just how much you paid her if you really did.

3. You'd cause drama for attention because you're clearly a very, very troubled person who I imagine gets off on it. Just do me a favor and get help before we find the basement full of naked starving women who you force to play Jenga for your amusement.


Google should help you find out how much I paid her. You can answer your own question.

As for your post here. I may have mis understood how we bumped into abiageal. Kamila just read this thread (and is reading over my shoulder as I type) that she thought she told me about abiageal o'meara because our friend in ireland who knows her mentioned her.

So again, I'm not COMPLETELY sure how it came about. Maybe I spoke too soon. I've been busy lately and it was three months back. We still discovered her on youtube, though.

It wasn't a detail i took notes for. usually people don't ask me to rehearse 10 second conversations I had with someone months after they happened. So fuck me if I got it a little bit ass backwards.

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Catoptromancy said:

Dude just keep making awesome wads and music. We don't need a backstory.

Make a new account with a new name that noone knows, release awesome megawad with custom music and pretend this never happened.


I like your idea but, come on. If what these dudes are saying is true, they'd spot my typing style a mile away. I mean I hope they have jobs, it stumps me when I try to think of how they find the time to bother with all this stuff.

Oh yeah, and IP addresses =P can't forget those.

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