QDOOM.2 - progress + screens

QDOOM 2

Well, after some thinking, I've decided to start a sequel to Marc Pullen's QDOOM while integrating pieces of CHASM: The Rift into the storyline. Originally I was thinking of just updating all of the QDOOM content in high-res (which I am currently doing, going to release that pack soon), but now I've decided that making a sequel to it would be better.



The project will be exclusive to 3DGE 1.36+, and will be built with two-player in mind (splitscreen). Objective-driven levels, spanning across 3 different dimensions, with HUB-based gameplay.

Exclusive to QDOOM 2: Fight alongside the Chasm protagonist to destroy the inter-dimensional Rift that Quake and his new allies, the TimeStrikers, are using to spread ultimate destruction. 3DGE doesn't have networking (yet!) so it'll be a local multiplayer game (grab a friend!).

SCREENS (6.6.13)


6.9.13


Will Feature:
============
High-Res Quake/Chasm replacements (real models and textures/effects) - in progress
..(Basically, no indexed-color stuff)
Matured OpenGL means much nicer dynamic lighting than the original QDOOM. Dropping all QUADRATIC stuff.
DDF/RTS/COAL combinations to enhance gameplay and world detail

Built for two-player Cooperative:
* Player 1 will have access to Quake's original arsenal of weapons
* Player 2 will have access to Chasm's original arsenal of weapons
* Each player will behave like their respective protagonists
* Puzzle solving that will require their unique skillsets

Level Design will incorporate many styles, such as:
* Ruined City Scapes
* Dark Quake/Shrak-themed Dungeon levels
* Chasm-inspired Techbase levels
* Merge of styles for an otherworldly, HP Lovecraft-type feel later in the game (lots of purple/green/brown)
* Will include enhanced versions of QDOOM's levelset

Premise:
==========
The basic premise of the QDOOM.2 TC involves both marines teaming up to put an end to Quake's Dimensional Rifts. Each player comes with their own skillsets so it's imperative two people work together to beat the game (it will be on the hard side). It will utilize a lot of features Hypertension had (decals, dynamic lighting code, etc), which are already written and ready to go. The style will be a bit darker to merge both Quake and Chasm's texture sets and level designs. The level design itself will showcase 3D floors, portals, and all the other stuff we can use. Objective-based gameplay like CHASM will be integrated, also like Hypertension, to give the level design more interaction. Unlike Chasm, the original QDOOM, and probably more like Quake though - the level design won't be so flat. Minor voice acting from the two low-poly dorks from the first Chasm will be present for objectives, but that'll be the extent of that. I am putting a specific focus on two-player, based on each character's weapons/abilities. The beginning of the First Episode will start from the end of the first QDOOM and move from there (slightly retconned to include the Chasm guy).

My Involvement:
==========
I think some people know here that I'm no level designer (hmm), but I can script the hell out of them, and I'm very good at detailing once they are built. I can do ALL of the programming myself, and in some cases, it's already there (can pull from Hypertension). Even though I never released Hypertension, I did release a lot of progress videos - I hope that's track record enough. Courtesy of Fiend and myself, but we had a good chemistry at the time. I've posted a shot of what the high-res content could look like previously.

Basically, a level designer is needed to bring it to life. I will also be porting this to Dream3DGE so the DC community can have a fun two-player mod to check out. Personally, I'll build a SVN Repo for all of the game assets so changes can be explicity tracked. It worked very well for Hypertension's development.

What I'm looking for:
==========
Some have expressed their interest, but what I'm looking for specifically are level designers. I'm thinking this Total Conversion could run 3 episodes long at 4-6 levels each, so it'll be longer than the first QDOOM but also more varied. People who have an interest in making Quake-like maps, and people who can adapt their styles to mimick Chasm's visual design. I can do slots for mappers but I do work closely with them, and a general cohesive design will need to be implemented as a standard. While Quake/Chasm didn't have hardcore continuity, HUB-based level design will need to have it. Like I said, I can do the level scripts, level effects (custom linetypes, DDF ehancements, etc), and pretty much any coding needed. I'll start off by cleaning up QDOOM and adding in all of the dynamic lighting code from Hypertension (the Utility crap, as I like to call it). I've already started converting all of the textures/models to their respective original counterparts. The only thing that'd be needed are Chasm textures and models. I'm not sure if a model viewer or ripper has been written but I'm also fairly certain it can't be too hard to reverse-engineer. If that fails, then I'll model (or find people to model) Chasm material. They aren't terribly high-res either, so it shouldn't be difficult.

Of course, the mapping format will be EDGE, and I know not a lot of people here have mapped for the engine, but it's quite easy to learn and powerful once you get the hang of it.

You are free to contact me here or by email, whichever you prefer. I'll be setting up the Repo in a week or so.

Criticism is open for the idea as well, if you guys don't think it would seriously mesh well, then it must go. I, however, have hopes - but I also have strange taste..

Good luck, this sounds very nice. Also reminds me I need to get around to playing Chasm soon.

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Further down the line, I may be interested in mapping.

I have to ask though, are you likely to keep the same texture names, flat names, and thing IDs as the existing QDoom? If so, I can probably knock together something of an audition map -- though this won't be immediately since I have a few projects on at the moment. My credentials are Sinister Intention, although I likely won't try anything too strange with QDoom.2 ;)

Have to admit though, the Chasm stuff throws me a bit. So unfamiliar with it, and don't like the look of what I am familiar with. I shall have to wait and see, I guess. ;)

It's nice to know that Chasm is not entirely forgotten.

This game was quite similar to Quake in terms of aesthetics, so I don't think it will clash much. After all, we had Dissolution of Eternity.

I'm not very fond of high-res stuff though.

ComicMischief said:

Further down the line, I may be interested in mapping.

I have to ask though, are you likely to keep the same texture names, flat names, and thing IDs as the existing QDoom? If so, I can probably knock together something of an audition map -- though this won't be immediately since I have a few projects on at the moment. My credentials are Sinister Intention, although I likely won't try anything too strange with QDoom.2 ;)

Have to admit though, the Chasm stuff throws me a bit. So unfamiliar with it, and don't like the look of what I am familiar with. I shall have to wait and see, I guess. ;)

The existing ID's will be the same; I'll only be adding new ones as needed. There are lots of LP's of the game online. Good texturework but flat level design (not a true 3D engine).

DaWerecat said:
This game was quite similar to Quake in terms of aesthetics, so I don't think it will clash much. After all, we had Dissolution of Eternity.

Yes, this was my initial reasoning. DoE is a great example. And I've constantly thought what it'd be like if these two ever "dragged" into the others' universe. I might make it optional to use the high-res versions of everything, since the DC port won't be able to use them as intended.

Chu:

Well, after some thinking, I've decided to start a sequel to Marc Pullen's QDOOM while integrating pieces of CHASM: The Rift into the storyline.

Excellent. I hope you'll make use of Pullen's water textures. They're the best I've ever seen for a non-shader/ non volumetric water effect. Also, I know you're aware of the "quakefan" (I don't know its title) map that comes with Sauerbraten. That level uses perfect gpl'ed textures.

Chu:

I will also be porting this to Dream3DGE so the DC community can have a fun two-player mod to check out.

Forgive me for nagging you on this, there's no reason to marry your project to the DREAMAGE engine release. 3 coders including yourself have struggled for years to get that thing beyond EDGE 1.29. Don't let your hard work be dominated by it. If the right programmers come along- fine. If not, your work deserves to be seen and enjoyed, PC only if need be.

This TC holds great promise. Looking forward to what you accomplish here.

zZaRDoZz said:

I hope you'll make use of Pullen's water textures. They're the best I've ever seen for a non-shader/ non volumetric water effect.

Agreed on this point. They are pretty amazing in motion, and look more like fluid than the stock Doom AND Quake effects.

Good luck with this man! looking forward to play it sooon :-D

Thanks everyone for the kind comments!

Here's a few new shots of QDOOM.2, showing the first level of Chasm. I use a few Quake textures mixed in with the originals in these shots. This should give everyone a nice idea on how these two visual styles can "marry" each other, given enough effort and attention to detail.

Please ignore my n00b texture alignments - this is one of the first times I've ever "built" a level in my life.





And, of course, the obligatory Splitscreen shot. Note that the Chasm shotgun is a sprite rip - I have no idea how to extract the model format as of yet.



So far, I've dumped all of Marc's original Indexed textures for true color PNGs - notice how much richer the color scheme is versus the original QDOOM.

If I can just get proper sprite/model rips of the Chasm content, this mod would seriously look great.

zZaRDoZz said:
Forgive me for nagging you on this, there's no reason to marry your project to the DREAMAGE engine release. 3 coders including yourself have struggled for years to get that thing beyond EDGE 1.29. Don't let your hard work be dominated by it. If the right programmers come along- fine. If not, your work deserves to be seen and enjoyed, PC only if need be.

No worries Z, I've been steadily making progress on porting the latest version of the engine to Dreamcast, so far so good. If nothing else, I can still update the original QDOOM in high res like I said I would and release it for the system. I can also hack in split-play if I can't get the build up and running in time.

Count me as an interested person who could try hand at mapping. I have played Chasm through and Quake is familiar, so I think I could have some idea how to go. With less of flat in Chasm.

How long this is supposed to roll? Year or two, or not yet carved in stone?

Will you be including the original Chasm Levels? So that we can play Chasm without Dosbox?

CorSair said:

Count me as an interested person who could try hand at mapping.

Me too! but only if you want some "scary" like maps ;-)

BTW those new shots looks cool, that map is looking nice!

CorSair said:

Count me as an interested person who could try hand at mapping. I have played Chasm through and Quake is familiar, so I think I could have some idea how to go. With less of flat in Chasm.

How long this is supposed to roll? Year or two, or not yet carved in stone?

That'd be great! I am thinking this could be a mod that would take a year or so. And I definitely support building Chasm maps that take advantage of 3DGE's 3D features, and making a less "flat" gameworld. The Quake levels as well, I know the levels in the first QDOOM were a little on the flat and bland side - that's a problem I hope gets rectified with QDOOM 2.

Ledillman said:

Me too! but only if you want some "scary" like maps ;-)

BTW those new shots looks cool, that map is looking nice!

The "scary" idea would be great for the third episode. I really envisioned it to be a weird mix of Quake's otherworldly atmosphere taking over the Chasm Earth-based levels. I think that'd work out well.

Thanks for the compliments! My first real attempt at mapping went better than I thought to be honest!

Yhe1 said:

Will you be including the original Chasm Levels? So that we can play Chasm without Dosbox?

I've thought about it, but I'd need help with the Chasm levelset if I were to do that.

I suppose I should take a tally of the interested persons who'd like to map for the project. Basically, you could pick an episode:

Episode 1 will be Chasm-based
Episode 2 will be Quake-based.
Episode 3 will be an original mix of both styles.

As I said in the first post, the maps will be connected by a HUBS. I am looking for objective-based gameplay (I can take both the objective AND achievement system developed for Hypertension previously).

If you guys are serious about helping, I can take a day and map out a THING ID list for use with QDOOM2, and hook you guys up with the latest engine revision. If you guys have never mapped for EDGE before, I can also link you to the RTS editing guide, which is the scripting language we use for the project (for maps).

Great you gotta in mind what you wanna do, PM me if you want some map test or anything ;-)

@Ledillman - I sent you a PM + a copy of a recent build of QDOOM2. Let me know if you need anything else ;)

Here's another shot in splitplay - I've gotten even more QUAKE models now, and I'm working on the Chasm Marine (he's heavily WIP) for the second player:



In the second shot, note how I have custom animations working when the Quakeguy uses his axe...the frame timing is off in my code so the axe doesn't look like it fires, it does, just a little too fast:

That looks very nice so far.

I ended up loading up Chasm and was pretty amazed, you can shoot glass and lights out, paper blows in the wind... They put some impressive detail into such an old game, outclasses Quake\Half-Life in certain small areas.

I realize I'm dating myself with this comment, but: I was one of the original public beta testers for Chasm back in 1997/98, and though it was not without issues (mostly flat levels), I never thought it got the recognition it deserved. So, I'm glad to see this project going forward.

MegaTurtleRex said:

I ended up loading up Chasm and was pretty amazed, you can shoot glass and lights out, paper blows in the wind... They put some impressive detail into such an old game, outclasses Quake\Half-Life in certain small areas.

It also has quite good dismemberment system. You can shoot off an arm and the wounded enemy soldier will attempt to punch you in the face with his remaining one.

Although it's more of a fun gimmick than a useful gameplay mechanic.

Lutz said:

mostly flat levels

Was this a limitation of the engine?

traversd said:

Was this a limitation of the engine?

Despite extensive use of 3d models, chasm was very much a 2.5D engine.

Lutz said:

I realize I'm dating myself with this comment, but: I was one of the original public beta testers for Chasm back in 1997/98, and though it was not without issues (mostly flat levels), I never thought it got the recognition it deserved. So, I'm glad to see this project going forward.

That's pretty awesome! I played the Chasm Beta recently to check it out, seems like it has a rudimentary model viewer that doesn't work on any retail models. Would've been fun to check out back in the day, and I too didn't think the game got recognition. I used to play it over an IPX network with my brother all the time.

I'm glad people are taking an interest in this, at first I wasn't sure the idea was great, but now I see it was a gamble worth taking. I'm surprised how well the design of Chasm is meshing with Quake, there's a reason I always thought they would go good together (moar brown?).

Wish there was a way to extract the monsters out of that weird 3o model format they are packed in. If I can't figure that out, then it's playing through Chasm (if I include the original levels) with the Quake monsters - not like it's a huge deal, there are equivalents to all of the creatures anyway.

I've thought about modeling the monsters in MD2 myself but, I don't have the time to do something that extensive. My newborn daughter will be here any day now and I'm struggling enough with the {albeit exciting} stress...but QDOOM2 is a great way to take my mind off of it.


Got ahold of the content in QTEST, the alpha of the original Quake (cool looking monsters) that I plan on using for QDOOM 2 as well, provided I can get skins wrapped around them. Lots of enemies that were never used, but animated nonetheless.

zZaRDoZz said:

Despite extensive use of 3d models, chasm was very much a 2.5D engine.

I guess so, but that doesn't mean it needs to be flat like Lutz explained so was wondering if there was something else or it was simply a design choice.

traversd said:

I guess so, but that doesn't mean it needs to be flat like Lutz explained so was wondering if there was something else or it was simply a design choice.

It's not just 2.5D, it's essentially a Wolfenstein 3D-like engine that uses model clipping (or something similar) for some height variation. I think it's the most pimped out Wolfenstein 3D-like engine in existence, but I may be wrong.

Da Werecat said:

Wolfenstein 3D-like engine

ah. understand now.

Here's an image showing nearly all of the textures switched to their true color PNG counterparts in QDOOM 1 (map QD06), plus new dynamic lighting added in. Some low res stuff still exists (need to switch those crappy backpack sprites). So far, so good.

But seriously, this project would benefit most by having new maps.

Are you planning on using the snowy theme from the free official add-on?

Da Werecat said:

Are you planning on using the snowy theme from the free official add-on?

Yeah I really liked those levels, so if I can map them I will. Like I said though, my mapping skills are sub-par and without some help the levels will turn out just as sub-par as the original QDOOM..

chu:

just as sub-par as the original QDOOM..

They weren't so bad. 3D floors were kinda new at the time, so the original team got a little bridge happy is all. Not a sin on a quake level by any means.



Chu, why not turn all that DDF code into DECORATE? You'll have more mappers than you'll know what to do with in a heart beat, and You'll have freepolyobjects to build the geometry traps that a quake tribute needs.

zZaRDoZz said:

chu:


They weren't so bad. 3D floors were kinda new at the time, so the original team got a little bridge happy is all. Not a sin on a quake level by any means.

The difference here is that Quake took advantage of its 3D capabilities - QDOOM only exploited 3D bridges and other minor features. While the levels are good for the above average mod, they do not fit Quake at all because of these shortcomings.

zZaRDoZz said:
Chu, why not turn all that DDF code into DECORATE? You'll have more mappers than you'll know what to do with in a heart beat, and You'll have freepolyobjects to build the geometry traps that a quake tribute needs. [/B]

QDOOM was originally built for a version of EDGE that I believe predated 1.27 and a GL renderer (I might be wrong, but it must've been in infancy), so you can see how the tech has evolved since then. Now with 3DGE at maturity, there will be no issue replicating Quake's geometry/style. Polyobjects aren't really needed because Quake didn't really use those types of features - other than crazy opening doors in the techbase levels, that is.

Besides, I don't mod for anything other than 3DGE - duh! ;)



There is one issue, though, that might stop me from including the original QDOOM levelset - player height. In Quake, the player was taller than Doomguy, so naturally the viewheight will be set higher off the floor, potentially breaking compatibility with the existing QDOOM mapset.