QDOOM.2 - progress + screens

chu
...there will be no issue replicating Quake's geometry/style. Polyobjects aren't really needed because Quake didn't really use those types of features - other than crazy opening doors in the techbase levels, that is.

*Cough-choke- Sprays monitor with expelled coffee.*

-Girder traps that push player sideways off a bridge to waiting wolf-bat thingies below.

-Rotating doors and platforms, spiked grinders, hatches in floors,

-Platform player had to ride through water filled canal to make level progression, giant metal crusher sliding sideways down a tube...

- Did we play the same version of quake?

Now I realize you can do some mid-texture trickery and maybe a 3d model moving down a way-pointed path with 3DGE, but you're trying to gain some mappers here. Techniques that were fine back in the edge 1.24 and zdoom 1.37 days aren't going to be seen as anything but hacky now. Even if free (read limitless) polyobjects can't do all of the above, A mechanically/magically living map was a theme throughout quake.

chu:
Besides, I don't mod for anything other than 3DGE - duh! ;)

I know, I know. You have a ton of DDF code left over from Hypertension that would make the average Decorate scripter enviously reach for their economy sized bottle of extendeez if they saw some of what you'd done. If you can script for DDF though, coding decorate isn't all that alien to you as they're quite similar. Heck, DDF can be turned into decorate if you're careful. Decorate is impressive in the right hands, we both know that.

Besides, didn't you do some work on AEOD? That was for zdoom. In the end though chu, do you really want to release a quake tribute 3 days after Graf Zahl releases runtime polyobjects in which ACS no longer has to be compiled? They were working on such a system roughly a year ago.

zZaRDoZz said:

Rotating

Not before the first mission pack, as far as I remember.

Da Werecat said:

Not before the first mission pack, as far as I remember.

Yeah, I don't think it existed before that either.

Look, QDOOM was one of the first mods back when the second generation of ports were rolling out. It's only fitting that QDOOM be continued on the original engine. I'm not worried about all of the Z-based ports, really. People will play it regardless of what port it's developed for - only the hardcore players would avoid it for something like, say, the 35FPS framerate. Just be on the lookout soon, 3DGE should have some stuff in the next release that should impress the crowd. ;)

I don't need flashy Polyobjs or anything like that to work on this. I don't want to argue about it, either. Besides, emulating Quake isn't the sole focus this time around. If you remember, Chasm didn't have much else other than 3D models and trivial things like rain and detachable limbs.

Also, I never did work on AOD - the only thing I contributed to heavily were a few select EDGE mods, and Hypertension. I have never touched anything else.

Chu said:

Look, QDOOM was one of the first mods back when the second generation of ports were rolling out. It's only fitting that QDOOM be continued on the original engine. I'm not worried about all of the Z-based ports, really. People will play it regardless of what port it's developed for - only the hardcore players would avoid it for something like, say, the 35FPS framerate. Just be on the lookout soon, 3DGE should have some stuff in the next release that should impress the crowd. ;)

I don't need flashy Polyobjs or anything like that to work on this. I don't want to argue about it, either. Besides, emulating Quake isn't the sole focus this time around. If you remember, Chasm didn't have much else other than 3D models and trivial things like rain and detachable limbs.

Fair enough, and all good points besides. 3DGE is fairly stable now, probably ready for prime time from what I do understand about it. Who knows what Pullen and co. would have managed with your latest build. Also, I'm not sure that mappers would come running for polobj. support, you rarely see them used in the ports that support them.

I hope you do get some mappers though. Don't let my ragging on you make you think I don't like the idea. For all it's goodness the original Qdoom felt a little unfinished. Chasm could use some love to boot.

Well, talking about the limitations of the engine compared to zdoom, I think the only thing it needs is the slopes function, and if it already has them, I can't make them work on the maps :P

Ledillman said:

Well, talking about the limitations of the engine compared to zdoom, I think the only thing it needs is the slopes function, and if it already has them, I can't make them work on the maps :P

Slopes are supported. From the documentation:

They work by putting a special linetype on the
front linedef of a stair step, and that step will be sloped
down to the lower floor (for ceilings, they slope up to the
higher ceiling).

The following Slope types are defined in edge2.wad:

[567] : EDGE Detail Slope, FLOOR
[568] : EDGE Detail Slope, CEILING

Ledillman said:

Well, talking about the limitations of the engine compared to zdoom, I think the only thing it needs is the slopes function, and if it already has them, I can't make them work on the maps :P

Forgive me if I'm not understanding your post Ledillman. 3dge certainly has render-only slopes. They have to accompanied by invisible geometry if player can reach them (stairs).


EDIT: Meh, what chu said...

Chu said:

Slopes are supported. From the documentation:

Hey thanks! one question... how do i make a sector of swimmable water? can figure it out how...

BTW: Chu, are you searching for another mapper to help?

deleted



Everybody wants to get into the act!




haaaa- chachachacha!

Oh a 3D floor? interesting!
another mapper would be great to help, thus, for the moment i can still make just classic-like maps (without slopes and 3d floors effects) every day learning something new about EDGE :-)

Here's another shot, showing off the improved Nailgun, and you probably can't tell, but the backpack sprite is now the original 3D model. My daughter was just born so I've been having little time here and there, but I should be back at the project soon.

If anyone is still interested in helping us map for this thing, let me know! Also, work on the Chasm weapons is dragging, I really wish I had the original 3D models instead of doing the sprite work, but something is better than nothing I suppose!

Somewhat off-topic, but congrats on the kid.

Shadow Hog said:

Somewhat off-topic, but congrats on the kid.

Thanks! Here's a picture of her - I absolutely love her to death! She's my beautiful half-Asian bundle of love. <3

so there is no way to get the Chasm models to work?

Yhe1 said:

so there is no way to get the Chasm models to work?

Well I don't think there's ever been any spec sheets to work off of. If there was, writing support or even an importer/exporter to, say, Milkshape would be possible. The model format is one of those "unique" ones that early 3D engines liked to develop in the mid-90's. Something called "3O". The beta version of Chasm had a model viewer, but it was extremely crude, crash prone, and can't load any retail models.

So, it's down to sprite rips, or if I get lucky/time/etc, recreating the models. It's not like they're a billion polygons, it's just that, well, I'm not that great of a 3D artist.

Here's a new shot, showing an old QDOOM 1 level, but the big thing here is the inclusion of Glfog. Works much like GLQuake's (i.e. not very advanced) but it looks so neat!

And have a look of one of the maps, it's still WIP!

Does this have to be two players? Or will there a single player version?

The use of 3d models makes the whole thing look like quake now. You must've done something to the palette too because that looks much better than the original Qdoom. Let's hope some modelers come along and help out with that Chasm issue.

Yhe1 said:

Does this have to be two players? Or will there a single player version?

I'm trying to lean towards two players, but I suppose we could do a single-player version as well. Right now, yes, the game plays single-player but we're designing things like traps/puzzles/pickups with two-players in mind. RTS scripting to the max.

zZaRDoZz said:

The use of 3d models makes the whole thing look like quake now. You must've done something to the palette too because that looks much better than the original Qdoom. Let's hope some modelers come along and help out with that Chasm issue.

Thanks! Yeah, the inclusion of 3D models combined with the newer render enhancements definitely ups the authenticity a bit, doesn't it? ;)

Still looking for another mapper or two to lend a hand with the Chasm levels! Also, so far Ledillman is a great asset to QDOOM 2 - his Quake maps are stellar!

Please make the mod completable as single player. Not all of us have friends that play old games.

Well you have a whole doom cummunity here to play with :P

What software or method you guys used to put the Chasm 3D models into your TC?

I have been messing with the .3o files but I coudn't manage to find anything useful, but I am seeing the weapons and the CHASM guy in your mod.

I'm really interesting in this info, would you share this info, please?

Also, had you guys managed to get something useful out of the .ANI files?

I played with those files into my favourite hex editor, but I coudn't find any common file header or format. And i'm thinking now how those files work. I know they are the files where models animations are defined, such as the window shaking in the first level, or even the rain, but I need to undertand the format.

Yokai said:

They are sprite rips. We do not have a decoder for the [3O] format, and it will just end up wasting time trying to figure it out. We are using high-quality sprite rips as to not detract from the obvious fully modeled weapons the Quakeguy has at his disposal. Another thought that's been kicked around is remodel everything but it'd take a lot of time. The monsters might simply not exist in this version [to be replaced by Quake's minions instead]. Which is okay with me, I never really thought Chasms bestiary was particularly interesting anyway.

You are correct about the animations - the ANI files are model seQuence refs - which is why, in the model viewer, no animations are displayed (only the static frame000). It can hardly be called a model viewer since it only loads it up as its seen in-game and hitting any other key aborts the program. Pretty useless.

Chu said:

The monsters might simply not exist in this version [to be replaced by Quake's minions instead]. Which is okay with me, I never really thought Chasms bestiary was particularly interesting anyway.

Sounds like a decent solution should the chasm models not be accessible. Does anyone have an opinion about the Nehahra bestiary/weapons?

Chu said:

You are correct about the animations - the ANI files are model seQuence refs - which is why, in the model viewer, no animations are displayed (only the static frame000). It can hardly be called a model viewer since it only loads it up as its seen in-game and hitting any other key aborts the program. Pretty useless.

How about reverse engineering the model viewer?

It could lead to it's source code teaching us how the .3o model files are formatted.

The problem is that we will obtain only ASM code and we need someone to read it and convert to C/C++.

Let me try it and see what I get...

Yokai said:

Let me try it and see what I get...

10236 lines of assembler language.

Someone willing to read it?

Will you release a public test\beta? If so, when?

Been waiting a while. When is it being publicly released?

Flame Skull said:

Will you release a public test\beta? If so, when?

There was a GZdoom mod released several months ago that used the quake1 md3 models. I don't think it had any maps though.