Minecraft vs. Doom mapping

One of my roommates has become a Minecraft addict. He regularly shows me what he's working on, and I, comparatively, proudly display my latest Doom map. Neither of us have any real experience with the other's software, but I find it very interesting that both impose some pretty severe limitations.

Minecraft lets you construct buildings with multiple floors. It's also possible to implement simple technology, such as working roller coasters, without any programming knowledge. However, Minecraft relies on a cubic aesthetic; texture alignment is a non-issue due to this. Materials must be created/destroyed in order to create architecture. There is also a very small amount of resources that can be added for gameplay variety.

Doom lets you construct buildings with single floors (in vanilla mode) using lines that can be angled to a variety of degrees. Complex interaction is only possible through scripting, which requires an advanced source port and some level of programming ability (or lots of tedious copy and paste from tutorials). There is a wide variety of resources that can be used to enhance gameplay. Texture alignment can be difficult, in some cases more so than in true 3D engines.

I kind of want to try Minecraft, as I've seen some really impressive videos, but there's something more alluring about Doom mapping. Anyone care to compare/contrast?

Apples vs. (very blocky) Oranges

Minecraft can get to be quite dull and repetitive after time, at times I have no set idea of what to create so I just go and create any old random thing, however it can sometimes be difficult to create far complex things.

You build block by block in Minecraft, so anything more complicated than a hut takes a long time. On the other hand, I've found placing these blocks seamlessly in a real-time 3D environment with appropriate visual and audio feedback is much more engaging and satisfying. It's as if you were laying down bricks yourself. Even games like Doom 3 or Sauerbraten, where the game and the editor are only one console command or hotkey away, don't quite compare in feel.

I think many mappers "play" Doom Builder like Minecraft: they just enjoy creating worlds, making structures, decorating them and stuff. Then comes the thing placement/gameplay part, which is very boring for them but they can't just publish an empty map because the players won't understand that. I was like this and some very famous mappers are as well (classified information from private conversations).

Hehe, It's curious, yesterday evening, I have went to a professional meeting, with two guys who created of a website of Minecraft, we crossed two hours to spoken about Doom and about Minecraft, it was very interesting to see the similarities, and how a community makes live a game. I have can be conquered 2 new players of Doom. :P

Now I've seen everything.

In all seriousness, though, it's interesting how Doom mapping and Minecraft building can be compared in such a way, considering they're in two completely different genres and have very different game engines/mechanics.

Doom is about mowing down as many enemies as possible with heavy weaponry; Minecraft gives weaponry that is much more primitive, but the aim is to construct buildings capable of holding the enemies out. Cyb (used to be one of the admins of this site) wrote an interesting write-up about the experience of playing Minecraft a couple of years ago.

I'd say that both Doom and Minecraft are "scary" but in different ways. Doom is an "atmospheric" scary - you're wandering around a dark base infested with monsters. In Minecraft there's a sense of "fear" because the monsters pose a significant threat compared to the primitive weapons you have. Unexpectedly encountering, for example, an (exploding) creeper is a jarring experience because they have the ability to either kill you or inflict serious damage, and they'll pursue you pretty much relentlessly.

In a game like Doom you're always carrying a gun that you can use to defend yourself; in Minecraft you might have a bow and arrow, which is weak and tedious to fire - and that's if you're equipped with any weapon at all, which chances are, you probably aren't. The fear comes from the fact that you can spend most of the game in comparative safety, which makes it all the more scary when you actually have to face a threat.

The two games have different aims: Doom is about slaughter and destruction in order to reach a goal, whereas Minecraft is about construction with no real goal. Given that Minecraft seems to have become very popular with kids, I think that's a pretty great thing. Not that I'm dissing Doom or FPSes by any means, but I think it's really important to teach kids to make things. When I (one day?) have children, I'd probably rather see them playing Minecraft instead of the latest FPS on the market, just like I'd probably rather see them playing with Lego bricks instead of action figures.

In summary, like Dragonsbrethren says: it's Apples vs. (very blocky) Oranges.

Side note: Notch, the creator of Minecraft, is a Doom fan and has an account on Doomworld (though hasn't been active here for years).

Minecraft doesnt even scare me at all, after playing Terraria. THat one is full of nightmare fuel. The first time you encounter the Corruption, and ESPECIALLY the Crimson, and then theres Skeletron, the Dungeon Guardian, and the final boss in the Underworld..

Your constantly rearming yourself to avoid a horrible grisly death by unspeakable abominations..

Building becomes much like Minecraft's once you enter Hard Mode, or even earlier, once Blood Moons and Goblin Armies are active. Dont protect your base well enough, everyone is going to die.

If you want to try an editor like Minecraft's (if you want to call it editor), I suggest installing and playing either Cube 2: Sauerbraten or Red Eclipse instead. Red Eclipse uses the Cube 2 engine, which means an EXTREMELY easy to use editor while still allowing very complicated designs. Out of the two I would recommend Sauerbraten because it plays more similar to the id games, where as Red Eclipse plays like UT mixed with some modern elements (which work actually).

Bonus Points in that Red Eclipse has Dead Simple as a stock map, and originally had E1M1 too...which is absent now.

Memfis said:

I think many mappers "play" Doom Builder like Minecraft: they just enjoy creating worlds, making structures, decorating them and stuff. Then comes the thing placement/gameplay part, which is very boring for them but they can't just publish an empty map because the players won't understand that. I was like this and some very famous mappers are as well (classified information from private conversations).

My favorite part of mapping is placing the monsters!

I havent played minecraft in months. Its fun when played in short bits but in longer periods it can get repetitive and dull. I recommend playing it in 1-2h sessions

Crasger said:

My favorite part of mapping is placing the monsters!

My favourite part is shaping/combining rooms, so quite a bit like I play Minecraft, really.

Now, being 12, everyone's probably going to yell "Nobody gives a damn about your opinion come back when you're mature like us" or "Of course you'd pick Minecraft" but I actually think, due to the freedom of Doom mapping in which you could technically make your own game (enhanced more by the scripting in source ports), it's obviously Doom in my opinion.

I prefer Doom mapping - you can do mistakes in sizes of a room and easily fix them, while it takes forever in Minecraft.

[size=1]minecraft is overrated[/size]

I don't understand why nobody has brought up the fact that Minecraft is a game and Doom Builder is not.

Marnetmar said:

I don't understand why nobody has brought up the fact that Minecraft is a game and Doom Builder is not.

Well, they're both fun. Also, some people play Minecraft in a very methodical way. Not unlike one might create a map in DB.

schwerpunk said:

Well, they're both fun. Also, some people play Minecraft in a very methodical way. Not unlike one might create a map in DB.

Eh, that's quite true. Sorry, I'm not as dense as I sound in that post, I just haven't gotten much sleep lately :p

Phml said:

You build block by block in Minecraft, so anything more complicated than a hut takes a long time.

In vanilla, true. But don't forget about mods. Minecraft got pretty much anything you can imagine once you start looking into the mod scene.

kristus said:

In vanilla, true. But don't forget about mods. Minecraft got pretty much anything you can imagine once you start looking into the mod scene.

You're right. I've been lazy and content to stay with the default game, but even a simple search for "minecraft build mod" shows some impressive stuff. Interesting! Any recommendations?

Phml said:

You're right. I've been lazy and content to stay with the default game, but even a simple search for "minecraft build mod" shows some impressive stuff. Interesting! Any recommendations?

Single Player Commands, which comes with World Edit, and you can make huge empty rooms about as fast as in DB. It's mostly making a cuboid selection from two points and then filling, copying, pasting and otherwise modifying, but also has many other commands. And for something not in real-time, the MCEdit is the most popular but I never tried it.

Minecraft is getting more features for the "custom map" makers, lately. The command blocks are a milestone for all these adventure/escape maps and I really hope they will be developed further.

Though its off topic, I made a doom 2 map in minecraft pocket edition and screenies are in my vid... too bad it was made of wool and diry, and too bad I put a lava pool too close to it...