jute Posted February 15, 2009 Does anyone have these? I'm assuming they did some sort of automatic conversion of Doom wads, since there simply aren't that many .wads for Hexen and Heretic. Any information would be appreciated. http://www.mobygames.com/game/hzone http://www.mobygames.com/game/magic-mayhem-for-heretic 0 Share this post Link to post
Stilgar Posted February 15, 2009 I don't have either of them at the moment, but as I recall Magic & Mayhem was just a heap of shitty conversions of 1994 Doom levels. H-Zone had some stuff that was somewhat worthwhile though as I recall--I'm pretty sure they had a megawad or at least episode that was unique to the compilation--I don't recall that it was great but it was at least a notch above M&M. 0 Share this post Link to post
GreyGhost Posted February 16, 2009 Magic & Mayhem's not worth worrying about - some 1500 converted maps. H!Zone has 12 new episodes (all replace episode 3) plus a few new flats, sprites and textures. There's also a couple of hundred other levels, most of which are probably in the archive. I could let you know later if there's any lost treaures on the disk, not a single file has it's original datestamp so I've been in no rush to check them. 0 Share this post Link to post
Lüt Posted February 16, 2009 I have H!Zone, and there are indeed 12 original episodes made especially for it, but even back in the late 90's, I only thought maybe 2 or 3 had some worthwhile maps in them, so I'm sure I'd think even less of them now. A few had a nice winter theme though. The other WADs are a mix of Heretic originals and converted Doom maps. As with D!Zone (or most of the other WAD archive packages), the majority are throwaways that I didn't bother playing (I browsed the directory with a map editor in preview mode rather than load each one into the game), but there are a few good maps and mini-episodes, which are probably all already available in the /idgames archive anyway. 0 Share this post Link to post
Vermil Posted February 16, 2009 I hear that Wizard Works converted those same 12 episodes to Duke3D for their Duke3D equivalent add-on. Is that true? 0 Share this post Link to post
Reisal Posted February 16, 2009 How does WizardWorks stay in business (if they still are) from profiting off authors' work and against Id Software's wishes? 0 Share this post Link to post
40oz Posted February 17, 2009 Yeah they are doom maps converted rather poorly to use Heretic textures weapons and monsters. I didn't recognize it at first, but I noticed several of the PWADS had modified doom resources in them that weren't used in the wads. I remember recognizing it after playing uac_dead. 0 Share this post Link to post
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2009 Mr. Chris said:How does WizardWorks stay in business (if they still are) from profiting off authors' work and against Id Software's wishes? WizardWorks actually went out of business in 1997, once it was determined that unofficial expansions to commercial games could not be legally sold. I can't remember what instigated this - likely the confusion over Aftershock for Quake. 0 Share this post Link to post
jute Posted February 17, 2009 GreyGhost said:12 new episodes (all replace episode 3) plus a few new flats, sprites and textures. This is the stuff I'm most interested in. Can anyone tell me what the new episodes and new art are like? 0 Share this post Link to post
Cupboard Posted February 18, 2009 The new art is interesting but it's not revolutionary or anything like that. :P It's a nice addition. From what I remember, some of it is based on the original Heretic artwork with modifications. The mapping can be pretty mediocre at times. There are some good levels from what I can remember (I haven't played any of it in about a year). The designs certainly can feel dated at times, but if you walk in with an open mind and pretend you're back in 1998 you can have a lot of fun. :) I'd be willing to upload the wads to the archive but I don't know about the legality of such an action. EDIT: For clarification, I'm speaking about HZone. 0 Share this post Link to post
Stilgar Posted February 18, 2009 TheCupboard said:I'd be willing to upload the wads to the archive but I don't know about the legality of such an action. EDIT: For clarification, I'm speaking about HZone. I suspect that, given that they were apparently made specially for that disc, they would fall into the same category as Perdition's Gate, Hell to Pay, and The Lost Levels (or whatever that Jupiter wad was titled), i.e. not okay to upload. As someone else mentioned, there were some snow environments. I also recall some tavern full of monsters with a maulotaur as a barkeep but that's about the extent of my recollections. 0 Share this post Link to post
printz Posted February 18, 2009 Stilgar said:I also recall some tavern full of monsters with a maulotaur as a barkeep but that's about the extent of my recollections. Sounds like overkill, get it? Not only the tavern is supposed to be a rather small room, but you also get a Maulotaur that trashes you in no time with his ground fire walking over tables that you can't pass because they're too tall. Add to the mix a few dangerous Nitrogolems and Undead Warrior Ghosts and you know it can't make a good map. And hell. I can't believe TWO AND A HALF worth of megawads have been made for Heretic, but they're all in release hell because we don't know whether it's ethical and legal to freely release them! 0 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted February 18, 2009 Ethical, almost certainly. Legal, probably not, due to the lack of a proper orphaned works clause in copyright law. Every time they try to add one, uneducated artists and media companies lobby against it. 0 Share this post Link to post
leileilol Posted February 18, 2009 WildWeasel said:WizardWorks actually went out of business in 1997 nah, they were still around during the horrible Extreme Paintbrawl, NAM and WW2GI games 0 Share this post Link to post
Cupboard Posted February 18, 2009 Looking at some of the textfiles in the HZone folders, it looks like most (all?) of the single level wads were collected off of the internet and just slapped onto a CD. It doesn't seem like uploading those would be illegal but all of the complete episodes have no textfiles and might have been made specifically for the HZone retail release, so they are probably off limits. 0 Share this post Link to post
Captain Toenail Posted February 18, 2009 I would just upload it anonymously somewhere, it sounds quite interesting, I doubt anyone is going to care anyway 0 Share this post Link to post
Vendettagainst Posted February 18, 2009 leileilol said:nah, they were still around during the horrible Extreme Paintbrawl, NAM and WW2GI games Wikipedia says: WizardWorks Software was a video game developer and publisher located in Minneapolis, MN. Focused on casual consumer games sold through mass-merchants like Target and Wal-Mart, WizardWorks was best known for publishing the Deer Hunter series of video games developed by Sunstorm Interactive but also made expansion packs for games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D and developed/published other titles. In 1996, WizardWorks was acquired by GT Interactive Software, and was eventually combined with other GT Interactive holdings in Minneapolis to form GT Interactive’s Value Products Division. WizardWorks continued as label through a subsequent corporate acquisition by Infogrames which later became Atari. In 2004, Atari closed the Minneapolis office, folding outstanding projects into the Beverly, MA office. [/B] 0 Share this post Link to post
Stilgar Posted February 18, 2009 Well, I'm just going by what I've observed Doomworld policy to be, I've repeatedly seen removals/punishments given out over postings of the Doom add-ons I mentioned, so I figured these would be the same sort of deal. 0 Share this post Link to post
GreyGhost Posted February 19, 2009 If there's no clause in the textfile permitting distribution and no way of contacting the author - they're best left alone. Damn shame. BTW - Atari are still using the WizardWorks name to flog games - including yet another Deer Hunter title. 0 Share this post Link to post
Creaphis Posted February 20, 2009 Case 1: A company crams a disk full of levels and sells it, defying the copyrights of the individual level designers and of the original game company. Verdict: All's fair in love and capitalism. Case 2: An individual uploads some levels that are essentially orphaned works. Verdict: BAN HIM! Justice must be served. 0 Share this post Link to post
omyv Posted January 9, 2014 I do have it, and the "Maximun Death" pack for Heretic too :) Heretic Magic&Mayhem Pack http://www.filefactory.com/file/xrn66qehc43/pack_heretic_hzone_magicmayhem.7z Heretic Maximun Death Pack http://www.filefactory.com/file/4uht6kxwufcn/pack_hereric_maximundeath.iso.7z 0 Share this post Link to post
Zed Posted January 9, 2014 Stilgar said:Well, I'm just going by what I've observed Doomworld policy to be, I've repeatedly seen removals/punishments given out over postings of the Doom add-ons I mentioned, so I figured these would be the same sort of deal. GreyGhost said:If there's no clause in the textfile permitting distribution and no way of contacting the author - they're best left alone. Damn shame. BTW - Atari are still using the WizardWorks name to flog games - including yet another Deer Hunter title. I think in the case of shovelware, there's really no problem. We've had some threads specifically about it (this is the last one). 0 Share this post Link to post
GreyGhost Posted January 10, 2014 Haven't seen this thread for a while. While the exclusive content in H!Zone might raise a couple of eyebrows, you could probably get away with uploading both CDs to the Internet Archive as shovelware. OTOH, posting links to that same exclusive content could result in the banhammer being swung. It's a strange world we live in. 0 Share this post Link to post
Zed Posted January 10, 2014 GreyGhost said:Haven't seen this thread for a while. While the exclusive content in H!Zone might raise a couple of eyebrows, you could probably get away with uploading both CDs to the Internet Archive as shovelware. OTOH, posting links to that same exclusive content could result in the banhammer being swung. It's a strange world we live in. I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of "official Doomworld policy" so we can have an idea of what can/can't be uploaded. Shovelware CDs seem to be in a "gray area" that some people (including me) can't understand completely. Maybe something added to the FAQ. It's somewhat interesting that you can upload shovelware CDs with copyrighted content, but you are forbidden to link to the copyrighted content in such CDs (as Creaphis pointed out). One example I can think of is Demon Gate Mega-collection, which includes both Odessa 1 and Odessa 13. Practically every file in that CD is freely distributable, but not those two wads (now that Bob Evans has returned, this is no longer an issue, but I think you get what I'm saying). 0 Share this post Link to post
GreyGhost Posted January 10, 2014 The "official Doomworld policy" on copyrighted material is straightforward enough. . ."This forum has a strict policy against copyright infringement. Do not link to or request full or leaked versions of games or content, magazine scans, ROMs, commercial software, or copyrighted media (such as music or movies).". . .and appropriate for commercial content. It's probably overkill for freely distributable stuff like PWADs, but a line had to drawn somewhere. 0 Share this post Link to post
Devalaous Posted January 10, 2014 Which is also going to eventually mean that Hell to Pay and Perditions Gate and other such things will be forever lost to time. Backwards rules are backwards. 0 Share this post Link to post
Zed Posted January 10, 2014 GreyGhost said:The "official Doomworld policy" on copyrighted material is straightforward enough. . ."This forum has a strict policy against copyright infringement. Do not link to or request full or leaked versions of games or content, magazine scans, ROMs, commercial software, or copyrighted media (such as music or movies).". . .and appropriate for commercial content. It's probably overkill for freely distributable stuff like PWADs, but a line had to drawn somewhere. OK, but my question hasn't been answered yet (or maybe I'm an idiot, which is probably the case). Why we can upload shovelware without consequences, but we can't upload copyrighted/non-distributable material from those shovelware CDs? I think it's like saying I can upload pornography with some coprophilia content, but I'm not allowed to upload coprophilia itself. I can't see the logic behind this. 0 Share this post Link to post
Grazza Posted January 10, 2014 Zed said:Why we can upload shovelware without consequences, but we can't upload copyrighted/non-distributable material from those shovelware CDs?True shovelware is just a collection of freely distributable material. That material is clearly OK to distribute. If something posing as shovelware actually violates copyright, or contains proprietary material, then that violating or proprietary material shouldn't be distributed. 0 Share this post Link to post