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Ty Halderman

Archive cleanup

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Rez said:

So where are you exiling the trapwads?

They're not exiled. They're identified for the 2 weeks they're in newstuff but beyond that they're in the regular tree. No plan to do that either, which answers your next question :)

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Ty Halderman said:

Feel free to read the post a couple above yours about trapwads. It is not a terrywad.


Yes it is, it's got the SOMEMONG texture, the loud obnoxious noise and the death trap. Here's the scripting:

Spoiler

script 1 (void)
{
SetMusic("howhee");
Teleport_NoFog(1);
while(true)
{
setfont("bigfont");
HudMessage(s:"SOME FUCKING CAT PUT THEIR BALLS ON THE BROCCOLI CALL THE CARN POLICE";hudmsg_plain,1,random(0,20),random(0.000,1.000),random(0.000,1.000),0.0);
ThrustThing(random(0,256),random(600,1000),1,0);
ThrustThingZ(0,random(100,1000),random(0,1),random(0,1));
Delay(1);
ReplaceTextures("BROCCOLI","TERRY");
setfont("bigfont");
HudMessage(s:"SOME FUCKING CAT PUT THEIR BALLS ON THE BROCCOLI CALL THE CARN POLICE";hudmsg_plain,1,random(0,20),random(0.000,1.000),random(0.000,1.000),0.0);
ThrustThing(random(0,256),random(600,1000),1,0);
ThrustThingZ(0,random(100,1000),random(0,1),random(0,1));
Delay(1);
ReplaceTextures("TERRY","SHOTACAT");
setfont("bigfont");
HudMessage(s:"SOME FUCKING CAT PUT THEIR BALLS ON THE BROCCOLI CALL THE CARN POLICE";hudmsg_plain,1,random(0,20),random(0.000,1.000),random(0.000,1.000),0.0);
ThrustThing(random(0,256),random(600,1000),1,0);
ThrustThingZ(0,random(100,1000),random(0,1),random(0,1));
Delay(1);
ReplaceTextures("SHOTACAT","CARNEVIL");
setfont("bigfont");
HudMessage(s:"SOME FUCKING CAT PUT THEIR BALLS ON THE BROCCOLI CALL THE CARN POLICE";hudmsg_plain,1,random(0,20),random(0.000,1.000),random(0.000,1.000),0.0);
ThrustThing(random(0,256),random(600,1000),1,0);
ThrustThingZ(0,random(100,1000),random(0,1),random(0,1));
Delay(1);
ReplaceTextures("CARNEVIL","BROCCOLI");
}
}

I'm, uhh, pretty sure it fits the criteria. :/

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Breezeep said:

I have a feeling that these "de-terrified" wads could possibly flood the archive. Take this one for example: http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?file=levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/uacvegf.zip


And there you have another reason I think they should be segregated under /Trollwads immediately upon discovery, rather than ever hitting Newstuff or ever being in the main tree.

If they fail to get the desired visibility, and cannot possibly collect unwitting eyeballs, there's less motivation to flood the archive.

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Somebody want to take this job over? Otherwise I've fully explained my position and will follow it. Sorry, but I'm just tired of being told what to do when I'm trying to do my best. There are hundreds of wads out there in the archive that aren't "nice" but I am not about to go back through them and move things around.

The classification of a terrywad file is for specific reasons, and I have outlined them before. This file does NOT include that, and it's getting way more time in the community than it deserves. How about the "ignore" concept, guys??!

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Ty Halderman said:

How about the "ignore" concept, guys??!

Interesting concept, though I don't know if the Internet generation is ready for it. Unfortunately, like any successful parasite the Terrywad crew appear to have adapted to the revised admission guidelines with alacrity. I suspect their goal is to submit wads that don't quite qualify for inclusion in /terrywads, since they know the butthurt is strong in this community.

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I thought The UAC Vegetable Factory was rejected because it had no gameplay and had an instantaneous trap. I will agree with you on the ignore concept which the Doom community does not use whatsoever. It seems that they enjoy complaining about Terrywads instead of actually ignoring them.

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Imback55 said:

I thought The UAC Vegetable Factory was rejected because it had no gameplay and had an instantaneous trap. I will agree with you on the ignore concept which the Doom community does not use whatsoever. It seems that they enjoy complaining about Terrywads instead of actually ignoring them.

It was rejected for that reason, so the "author" threw in a room that you start out in and reuploaded. I don't like that and it's BS and we all know it, but whadyagonnado? I could reject any trap wads outright, but I'm sure that would stir the pot too, and arguments would ensue about "how trapped are you?" and they'd keep experimenting until they could get around that one.

I still maintain that I should not be a judge of quality (but unplayable is a non-quality-related criterion); this is an archive and should include the community's creations for better or worse, so long as they pass the mandatory guidelines (mostly from id or lawyers). Now I suggest if we want to discuss wad quality that it be done in another thread; maybe the community that cares about content can do something else... oh, how about a review/comments place on some website that has enough rules around it to keep the spam out?!

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Memfis said:

It is... sorta:

2008/02/24       2528  levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/q2doom.txt
2008/02/24   10261128  levels/doom2/Ports/p-r/q2doom.zip
2007/08/20       2524  levels/doom2/p-r/q2doom.txt
2007/08/20   10125439  levels/doom2/p-r/q2doom.zip
Removed the earlier one from 2007.

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Because it was reuploaded with a starting room. Try scrolling up about 3 posts and work on your reading comprehension.

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Ty Halderman said:

It was rejected for that reason, so the "author" threw in a room that you start out in and reuploaded. I don't like that and it's BS and we all know it, but whadyagonnado? I could reject any trap wads outright, but I'm sure that would stir the pot too, and arguments would ensue about "how trapped are you?" and they'd keep experimenting until they could get around that one.

I still maintain that I should not be a judge of quality (but unplayable is a non-quality-related criterion); this is an archive and should include the community's creations for better or worse, so long as they pass the mandatory guidelines (mostly from id or lawyers). Now I suggest if we want to discuss wad quality that it be done in another thread; maybe the community that cares about content can do something else... oh, how about a review/comments place on some website that has enough rules around it to keep the spam out?!


Quite simple: /idgames web interface should either: Disallow anonymous reviews and votes, or if that's too harsh, have anonymous votes and reviews hidden by default. That'll shut them up.

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More Heretic stuff that should be in the ports subdir. It's been a while since I went through and made this list, I just got sidetracked in making the report. Most of them were pretty straightforward (an immediate lockup or bomb out, often stuff like "too many mace spots", "too many ambient sounds", etc) or it's mentioned in the text that a port is required, but if you want me to recheck any for the specific incompatibility with vanilla I can do so.

Spoiler

levels/heretic/a-c/alfa2.zip
levels/heretic/a-c/alfa3.zip
levels/heretic/a-c/cookies.zip
levels/heretic/d-f/dai-dung.zip
levels/heretic/d-f/db_tac.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hfruit_h.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hoc.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hoc2.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hoc3.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hocx.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hof.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/hotsaint.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/htdc_rf3.zip
levels/heretic/g-i/ice-lutz.zip
levels/heretic/m-o/mondamrh.zip
levels/heretic/m-o/om2.zip
levels/heretic/p-r/pc_ls.zip
levels/heretic/p-r/portals.zip
levels/heretic/p-r/remote.zip
levels/heretic/p-r/rotml.zip
levels/heretic/s-u/sinful.zip
levels/heretic/s-u/steeple.zip
levels/heretic/s-u/tdtgaua.zip
levels/heretic/s-u/tlotbt.zip
levels/heretic/s-u/tltemple.zip
levels/heretic/v-z/wimpy_x.zip

Also, levels/heretic/g-i/heretech.zip is either ports or /combos (it's a weapon mod).

Is there a particular reason that Hexen doesn't have a ports subdir?

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ETTiNGRiNDER said:
More Heretic stuff that should be in the ports subdir. It's been a while since I went through and made this list, I just got sidetracked in making the report. Most of them were pretty straightforward (an immediate lockup or bomb out, often stuff like "too many mace spots", "too many ambient sounds", etc) or it's mentioned in the text that a port is required, but if you want me to recheck any for the specific incompatibility with vanilla I can do so.

I think we discussed these before and I didn't get back to them. All moved to Ports (there are no alpha subtrees under Ports for Heretic so they're all in one pile).

Also, levels/heretic/g-i/heretech.zip is either ports or /combos (it's a weapon mod).

Combos is only intended for DOOMx wads so it's been moved to heretic/Ports.

Is there a particular reason that Hexen doesn't have a ports subdir?

In hindsight I wish there had never been a Ports concept but they were rare and different at the time. If anyone really cares about running pure vanilla they're few and far between at this point but the archives are what they are and I'm not about to break thousands of links to shuffle them around. Hexen only has a couple hundred wads total anyway--don't need to split them up further and probably didn't need to separate them alphabetically anyway; it was just the way it was done.

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A quick question about classification: if I have a single-map wad that doesn't plays in the map 20 slot, and I replace map 01 with a black box that has "idclev 20" written on the floor, should I still indicate in the text file that it's a single map? I would think so, but it does technically have two map markers and lumps for two maps.

(Here's the wad in question; it'll probably be a week or so before I upload because it's in public beta now: mediafire.com/download/zhyugsen9vlt053/ImpOfferBeta1.wad )

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Cynical said:

A quick question about classification: if I have a single-map wad that doesn't plays in the map 20 slot, and I replace map 01 with a black box that has "idclev 20" written on the floor, should I still indicate in the text file that it's a single map? I would think so, but it does technically have two map markers and lumps for two maps.

Interesting question. If you were just teleporting the user to the 20th slot based on some action he's taking, I'd say it's one. But assuming he can play in MAP01 before having to enter the cheat code (and I think you're asking a lot for the player to know the cheat codes and how to use them, but it's a challenge of sorts), then it's 2.

So... either one's close enough. If you think the player is going to think he went through 2 levels, then make it 2. Otherwise 1. Or put down 1.5 and confuse us all.

Playing it, I felt like it was 2 and the first one was silly, but that's just me and shouldn't be taken as a really negative statement.

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Cool, "either one is close enough" means I'll go 1.

(I really didn't mean for it to be "playing two maps" -- in fact, the hope is that the player reads the text file, sees "one map in the map 20 slot", and just puts -warp 20 on their command line or something -- but it's there because I know that someone inevitably won't read the text file, and an hour before I did the public release I decided that I wanted to make sure I had some way of pointing them to the right place that they couldn't miss. Hopefully anyone playing it knows what "idclev" means, although if they haven't been around long enough to know that, they probably wouldn't have any chance of surviving the real level anyways...)

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Cynical said:
I really didn't mean for it to be "playing two maps" -- in fact, the hope is that the player reads the text file, sees "one map in the map 20 slot", and just puts -warp 20 on their command line or something -- but it's there because I know that someone inevitably won't read the text file


As a player who reads textfiles but frequently misses stuff like this, these little "point me where I belong" maps are appreciated. Especially if they come with a little eye candy.

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Lol, I'm used to writing "-warp" (in prboom-plus it takes you to the first replaced map, so you can just write it without having to read the txt), so these non-maps always annoy me.

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Agreed, -warp with no parameters is very useful.

Maybe you could replace the PIPE4 texture that comes up in Doom 2 MAP01 (patches TP7_1 and TP7_2) with graphic that says IDCLEV 20, assuming you don't use that texture in your map?

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Breezeep said:

Anyone mind moving this to a trollwad section?

I didn't think the archive had a trollwad section.

Although, I do wonder what that Wtf section is about and how a file gets itself into that section.

EDIT: Never mind, it looks like it is for that WTF productions team or something.

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Breezeep said:

Anyone mind moving this to a trollwad section?

It and its sequel (which just was posted yesterday) have been marked as Trapwads. See my post above (search for "xyz.trapwarning.txt") about that, and/or read one of the trapwarning.txt files for details. You will see those files if you look at the Newstuff directory, for the 2 weeks they're in Newstuff.

I don't know how the index here at Doomworld is created, but perhaps they could be more permanently identified as such if the trapwarning.txt file is seen. My possibly erroneous assumption is that people are looking at the Newstuff directory in an HTML or FTP session, but maybe it's just a viewing of the list here, in which case that doesn't help much. Still, I've identified them and if you don't want to look where I'm putting the warning that's your business.

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mrthejoshmon said:
Although, I do wonder what that Wtf section is about and how a file gets itself into that section.

EDIT: Never mind, it looks like it is for that WTF productions team or something. [/B]


Yep, and pretty decent maps for their day.

The TAB maps are another set in their own directory from way back in the olden days ... they're among my favorite older maps.

I guess originally there were going to be sections for each mapping group, but that quickly got out of hand. :D

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Breezeep said:

sorry for bumping, but can at least someone do something about this abomination?

What would you suggest?

It's in x-rated and otherwise technically would "just" be a trapwad. Quality is not a criterion for inclusion, which I've said roughly a million times, give or take.

Or does "do something" mean magic of some sort to make it not appear in the Doomworld index? I suppose x-rated could be excluded, but I'm not involved in that.

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Ty Halderman said:

They're not exiled. They're identified for the 2 weeks they're in newstuff but beyond that they're in the regular tree. No plan to do that either, which answers your next question :)


In this case, the front-end and API on doomworld needs to implement checks for that, especially if the identification is constantly deleted.

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Csonicgo said:

In this case, the front-end and API on doomworld needs to implement checks for that, especially if the identification is constantly deleted.

In the 5 months since the statement you quoted, things have changed. The trapwarning now accompanies the txt and zip files into the tree.

2014/10/06        590  levels/doom/Ports/s-u/spremake.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/28        590  levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/2spook.trapwarning.txt
2014/11/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aluac400.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/28        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/avgn.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/18        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/butthurt.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/27        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cxv.trapwarning.txt
2014/09/09        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/demonspc.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/15        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/descr.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/17        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/desec2.trapwarning.txt
2014/09/09        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dvilrage.trapwarning.txt
2014/11/22        590  levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/gat2hell.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/20        590  levels/doom2/Ports/j-l/kairezh.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/11        590  levels/doom2/Ports/j-l/klub.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/m-o/malbr400.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/26        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/sworkshp.trapwarning.txt
2014/08/02        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/uacvegf.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/unhchrch.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/01        590  levels/doom2/a-c/bigfoot.trapwarning.txt

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Ty Halderman said:

In the 5 months since the statement you quoted, things have changed. The trapwarning now accompanies the txt and zip files into the tree.

2014/10/06        590  levels/doom/Ports/s-u/spremake.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/28        590  levels/doom2/Ports/0-9/2spook.trapwarning.txt
2014/11/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/aluac400.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/28        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/avgn.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/18        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/butthurt.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/27        590  levels/doom2/Ports/a-c/cxv.trapwarning.txt
2014/09/09        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/demonspc.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/15        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/descr.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/17        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/desec2.trapwarning.txt
2014/09/09        590  levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dvilrage.trapwarning.txt
2014/11/22        590  levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/gat2hell.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/20        590  levels/doom2/Ports/j-l/kairezh.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/11        590  levels/doom2/Ports/j-l/klub.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/m-o/malbr400.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/26        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/sworkshp.trapwarning.txt
2014/08/02        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/uacvegf.trapwarning.txt
2014/12/03        590  levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/unhchrch.trapwarning.txt
2014/10/01        590  levels/doom2/a-c/bigfoot.trapwarning.txt


\o/

This is great news!

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