Valiant.wad - now on /idgames!

Gez said:

There's a switch behind the altar near the pool of blood in the southernmost cave. Activate it and you'll get teleported to a ledge. From there, there are invisible teleport lines that you have to take in sequence that'll lead you to the next ledge. The last line in the series will bring you to that area.

The first line is to the south of your teleport point, against the rock wall. The second line is between two torches against the south-east wall of the lower ledge. The third is again between two torches on the lower ledge directly to the south.

Thanks for the help Gez. So far my favourite level is MAP12 (Bane Capitol). It's got this awesome Quake II vibe to it. :)

Fifth map.

Map 24 it's possible to SR50 around/over a walkover (20323) line before the red key fight and still make it onto the floor, so no monsters warp in.

Enjoying up to that map so far, ep4 has been a bitch. Will start ep5 soon.

Digging that façade high on the rock face. Doom doesn't make it easy when it comes to world-building so it's fresh to see supplemental design for areas you can't access but they give the impression the world you inhabit is bigger than it really is.

There might be a bug in RC2 on MAP15. I've circled in red an inactive imp inside sector #856 here...

ArmouredBlood said:

Map 24 it's possible to SR50 around/over a walkover (20323) line before the red key fight and still make it onto the floor, so no monsters warp in.

Yeah, that might be an issue. The fight shouldn't be possible to skip THAT easily.

savagegrant said:

There might be a bug in RC2 on MAP15. I've circled in red an inactive imp inside sector #856 here...

Just tested with pr+ cl11 on UV and I can't confirm this bug. Can you try to replicate it and post your specifics (port, settings)?

Map 19 has 1 unit length linedefs 2394 and 2476 which lie on top of eachother, it leads to a small visual glitch.



there's also a few issues with slime trails

dew said:

Just tested with pr+ cl11 on UV and I can't confirm this bug. Can you try to replicate it and post your specifics (port, settings)?

GZDoom v1.4.8 (R762) on UV. Let me know if you need any other info. :)

I've zipped my GZDoom, a savegame and my settings file so that the bug can be reproduced as needed: https://www.sendspace.com/file/22vey0

Szymanski said:

http://i.imgur.com/e3S0OQ6.png

btw. Is it just me or that floor flat doesn't tile at all?

Memfis said:

btw. Is it just me or that floor flat doesn't tile at all?

It looks like a recolour of the black floor but the boundaries are less defined.

Afterglow said:

Digging that façade high on the rock face. Doom doesn't make it easy when it comes to world-building so it's fresh to see supplemental design for areas you can't access but they give the impression the world you inhabit is bigger than it really is.

If you idclip up there, you can see a partially finished path for the player to walk through. Originally the way to the exit was going to pass through that cliff structure, but I got sick of the map and put the exit where it is now, heh. I'm kind of glad because it's already a long enough map.

Anyways, thanks again all. I've noted the issues raised. I'm hoping to have a RC3 up by the end of the month in case the DWMC decides to play through Valiant in March. Thankfully most of the remaining issues are minor!

savagegrant said:

GZDoom v1.4.8 (R762) on UV. Let me know if you need any other info. :)

I've zipped my GZDoom, a savegame and my settings file so that the bug can be reproduced as needed: https://www.sendspace.com/file/22vey0

Alright, I can confirm the bug now. It's caused by botched cycling on the safety mechanism for that particular teleporter closet. Sector 836 should be tagged 48, not 47.

That said, this is a peculiar case. I think zdoom and pr+ evaluate scroller speed differently. In pr+ the imp safely ports out without needing the safety cycling porters, so I'd say the pr+ scroller moves slower than the zdoom's one. Buuut just recently I was testing Dusk's 32in24-14 map and in that one a voodoo doll was skipping a script linedef in pr+, because it was going too fast... but it worked alright in zdoom (can't skip linedefs there). I wonder if there's a different scaling factor for the scroller speed (depending on the operating linedef length) between pr+/zdoom? Because it seems like the error can swing both ways!

dew said:

Alright, I can confirm the bug now. It's caused by botched cycling on the safety mechanism for that particular teleporter closet. Sector 836 should be tagged 48, not 47.

That said, this is a peculiar case. I think zdoom and pr+ evaluate scroller speed differently. In pr+ the imp safely ports out without needing the safety cycling porters, so I'd say the pr+ scroller moves slower than the zdoom's one. Buuut just recently I was testing Dusk's 32in24-14 map and in that one a voodoo doll was skipping a script linedef in pr+, because it was going too fast... but it worked alright in zdoom (can't skip linedefs there). I wonder if there's a different scaling factor for the scroller speed (depending on the operating linedef length) between pr+/zdoom? Because it seems like the error can swing both ways!

There does seem to be a difference in scroller speed in ZDoom and pr+. If you want to see a really obvious case, go to map07 and look at the circular light room (where you fight the Cyber). You'll see the light rotate very quicky in Pr+, and very slowly in ZDoom.

As far as map15 goes, I can just make sure the circular teleports are tagged correctly.

dew said:

That said, this is a peculiar case. I think zdoom and pr+ evaluate scroller speed differently. In pr+ the imp safely ports out without needing the safety cycling porters, so I'd say the pr+ scroller moves slower than the zdoom's one. Buuut just recently I was testing Dusk's 32in24-14 map and in that one a voodoo doll was skipping a script linedef in pr+, because it was going too fast... but it worked alright in zdoom (can't skip linedefs there). I wonder if there's a different scaling factor for the scroller speed (depending on the operating linedef length) between pr+/zdoom? Because it seems like the error can swing both ways!

There's a compat option in ZDoom for a Boom issue where if something is straddling across two (or more) different conveyor belts, its speed is the sum of speed from all scrollers it touch; whereas ZDoom's default behavior is that the speed is the average. So ZDoom scrollers ought to be slower, unless this compat option is set.

Playing through again on UV (using RC2), and if it hasn't been seriously raised in this thread already, I think MAP08 needs some serious rebalancing. That map is way too hard for an episode opener. The first room is damn vicious with the arachnotrons on the ledges, and all the trees obscuring the player's view of them. Plus an SSG would definitely be welcome to deal with all the mancubi. There might actually be a bit of a dearth of ammo overall, too.

Jimmy said:

Playing through again on UV (using RC2), and if it hasn't been seriously raised in this thread already, I think MAP08 needs some serious rebalancing. That map is way too hard for an episode opener. The first room is damn vicious with the arachnotrons on the ledges, and all the trees obscuring the player's view of them. Plus an SSG would definitely be welcome to deal with all the mancubi. There might actually be a bit of a dearth of ammo overall, too.

I like how the episode opener kicks your arse. By habit, I tend to move slow and methodically through levels so the ones that force me to keep on the move end up being more action-packed and enjoyable, such as MAP08.

Sixth map.

Also, seventh map, the walkthrough of which ended up kinda funny and lame at the same time. Amazing map idea anyways. (gonna be visible about 20 minutes after thi reply is posted)

Jimmy said:

Playing through again on UV (using RC2), and if it hasn't been seriously raised in this thread already, I think MAP08 needs some serious rebalancing. That map is way too hard for an episode opener. The first room is damn vicious with the arachnotrons on the ledges, and all the trees obscuring the player's view of them. Plus an SSG would definitely be welcome to deal with all the mancubi. There might actually be a bit of a dearth of ammo overall, too.

You're going to love ep4s opener.

Playing Map30, and I just can't believe how much health this super archvile has. The fight just drags on, and on. Guess I'll give it a couple more goes, but the cybruisers are such a cheap include. A rocket to the back has ended plenty of attempts.

E: Now I feel dumb, playing keep away from the cybruisers and running away got me a win first attempt after that post. Yay

Jimmy said:

Playing through again on UV (using RC2), and if it hasn't been seriously raised in this thread already, I think MAP08 needs some serious rebalancing. That map is way too hard for an episode opener. The first room is damn vicious with the arachnotrons on the ledges, and all the trees obscuring the player's view of them. Plus an SSG would definitely be welcome to deal with all the mancubi. There might actually be a bit of a dearth of ammo overall, too.

Yeah, this issue has been raised before. There's more than enough rockets / plasma to take out all the Mancubi, but if you try to kill them all before acquiring the RL you're going to ammo starve yourself. I know it isn't something that's universally liked, but I had decided to use this kind of ammo/weapon starvation mechanic before I even drew the map's first linedef, and it's a decision I'm generally happy with.

Anyways, as I said somewhere a page or two back, this is one of my favorite Valiant maps to play so I'm planning on keeping it as-is on UV, although it has been toned down significantly on skill 1-3.

Thanks for letting me know, though!

Still chewing my way through this, its bloody epic stuff. Maps 22 and 23 really struggled in zdoom, I had to switch to prboom for those two. Think its when there is a large view across a lot of sectors maybe, zdoom starts hobbling like an old grandad. Its a bit annoying cos I prefer zdoom, but can't be helped. Just one more episode to go...

GZDoom would probably run swifter than regular SW rendered Zdoom in those two maps, methinks.

Yeah, GZDoom runs a lot better. I largely avoided GZDoom because I never liked how blurry it made everything... but I just figured out that it was because trilinear texturing was on and how to turn it off! I might just switch to GZDoom as my port of choice now...

Unfortunately I play doom on a laptop that doesn't cope with gzdoom very well. Besides which I prefer the look of software rendering for some reason.

Yeah, for me 22 and 23 were lagging a bit too, even in prboom+. Hmm, now that I think about it, this might be one of the reasons why E4 was my least favorite.

There's too much architecture visible at once for SW renderers, I guess. The maps ran like dipped in honey for me too, but when I switched to gl+ everything was smooth and fast again. I haven't tested with Eternity, maybe it's Cardboard's time to truly shine!

I just wanna drop by and say quickly that I've never had so much fun with a Megawad in a while. Gonna replay the shizz out of this when I get time this week :)

I just discovered this - skillsaw, you are brilliant!

I went through Map31 -nomo just now and found a way to break it. There's a linedef trigger you should move.

I've attached a demo (made in PrBoom+) to show you what goes wrong: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a5f0oy96shzabp/M31BrokenValiantRC1.lmp?dl=0

Loved E1-E3 in this WAD, by the way!

Maybe the suicide bombers should have repurposed their energy from evil and into careers as opera singers.

Finally finished the last chapter, excellent stuff. Loved and hated that boss battle, perfect ending to the journey.

This really is a finely tuned and polished piece of work, and has a real feeling of fun when it isnt being sadistic. In fact my only complaint is that the occasional bastard trap stops me playing as gung ho as I feel like it wants me to play, that and all the snipers tend to slow things down a bit. I think next time I play it I will try dropping the difficulty a notch, not cos its too hard, but just cos the maps seem designed to be played fast and loose.

Awesome visuals too, throughout.