Valiant.wad - now on /idgames!

Never_Again said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that you called this an MBF megawad without actually having ever used MBF or WinMBF.

I never used MBF, nor do I have MBF listed as a supported port in the orignal post, which is quite explicit in stating which ports have been tested and what features may or may not be missing in those ports.

Valiant does use many DeHackEd features that originally come from MBF so calling this wad MBF format does make sense, at least to me. AFAIK there is no other existing shorthand for describing such a wad.

Well, seeing dew's name in the playtesters list I think you have the compatibility base covered. Using the "MBF" moniker without having the WAD tested in either MBF or WinMBF is misleading, though; even Prboom-plus doesn't have complete MBF emulation (the OPTIONS support, at least, is missing).
IMO, adding an asterisk or the plus sign to the title, and a disclaimer to the first post and the TXT file is the right way to go about it.

Never_Again said:

even Prboom-plus doesn't have complete MBF emulation (the OPTIONS support, at least, is missing)

Valiant does not have an OPTIONS lump, so that point is moot.

The presence or absence of OPTIONS lump is quite beside the point, which is testing with Prboom-plus does not a MBF WAD make.

The mecha barons are broken...instead of dieing they just keep on moving/firing but are non-solid and unhittable.
The GZDoom console contains - Frame 994: Unknown code pointer 'KeenDie // was BrainDie' on startup. (though it's still broken after correcting this line)

It's your GZDoom version that's broken.

It's an MBF wad (ie. not a ZDoom wad), so I doubt it's to do with that.

The Ultimate DooMer said:

It's an MBF wad (ie. not a ZDoom wad), so I doubt it's to do with that.

They work fine on my GZDoom installation, and no one else has reported problems in three months - are you using an old GZDoom version, or are you autoloading an additional mod? I'm not sure what's causing the problem but I'm pretty sure that Gez is correct in suggesting the problem is on your end.

The warning message about KeenDie happens, but it is unrelated to the issue you have with the cyberbarons (spidermastermind replacement). Notably because, thanks to Zandronum lagging behind and not having MBF DEHACKED compatibility, Valiant uses DECORATE code for enemies, making any DEHACKED parsing issue irrelevant in ZDoom-based ports.

And on my version of GZDoom, they die without any weird behavior.

Sorted out by removing an external mod that fixes blood colours...still don't know why it would affect it though, as it's not a dehacked patch.

An awkwardly placed ammo box in MAP23.

Are you sure that's map23?

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Sorted out by removing an external mod that fixes blood colours...still don't know why it would affect it though, as it's not a dehacked patch.

Blood color fixing mods typically replace monster classes (in order to change their blood color property), which of course collides with any monster behaviour alterations (DEHACKED or DECORATE) in a wad.

BlackFish said:

Are you sure that's map23?

Whoops, I meant MAP24.

But here's an actual oversight on MAP23: Forgot to texture there.

Also those ammo symbols and the pony face on the HUD are hilariously misaligned. Like what the hell, skillsaw, were you drunk offsetting them?

dew said:

Also those ammo symbols and the pony face on the HUD are hilariously misaligned. Like what the hell, skillsaw, were you drunk offsetting them?

probably not drunk enough.

yer pising mee of

Hello,
overall I like it. Reminds me on Back to Saturn. More ammo and faster shooting with chaingun is cool. Also the fact chaingunners dont drop weapon so its not as easy to get it. Nice monsters replacements - octopus Arachnotrons, satan Archvile, that suicidal bitches ... . Only 2 things I dont like about it is
1) the shots from Imps are too fast
2) death animation of Hell Knights is underdone and bad (I know a lot of these monsters from Realm667, maybe not your one)
Maps look nice. I didnt play all of them - just quickly IDCLEVed all and went Map01-Map05 and some random. A lot of custom textures, detail good, layout good. I appreciate that rooms are often done in non-square way. I couldnt have so much patience with aligining :D. Gameplay seems nice in first map but then it starts to be repetitive. Cause you unfortunately didnt miss the biggest cliche of Doom maps ever - after picking key card, monsters teleport everywhere. Then you collect another card, next monsters teleport again. Pick a valuable item, also teleport everywhere. All 4 maps I played have the same scenario. TOO MUCH TELEPORTING TRAPS! I will play it, cause its good wad and there is a lot of effort. But it would be even better if you would not use teleporting traps every time.
Even through this little thing this has chance to be one of best 32-level wads I have played anyway. Take it just as a note you can follow or leave.

I honestly have no issue with the teleport traps everywhere.

Traps at all- not just teleport, also opening room full of monsters. When there is something good and you pick it, you bet 99% its a trap. Not a BIG problem too, but seriously its hard to find a map from 2000 on, where you pick a key and nothing happens.

Traps are definitely a cliche, sure, but it's a cliche I like. Glad you still liked some other things though.

No problem. Btw you just replaced monsters or also added some? Cause I dont know how this can work in PrBoom when PrBoom allows only replace.

Replaced several monsters but also other things. I think the final boss replaces a blue torch. Spider masterminds overwrite lite amp goggles, something else replaces the dead lost soul, etc.

It's been a while since I've really looked at what replaces what because I made a DB2 config file for Valiant so I wouldn't have to think about it.

There's definitely some interesting things done with the Valiant dehacked (for example, Masterminds replace Light Goggles because something is in the regular mastermind slot), heh.

The Spider Mastermind switched slots to the goggles so that the Cybruiser (which replaces the original Mastermind slot) could be immune to blast damage; I believe, since the Cybruiser shoots rockets. I know this because when it comes to DeHackEd, the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind slots are hardcoded to be immune to blast damage.

Anyway, this is an amazing megawad, even if it does get brutally hard at times. Can I make a patch for a certain mod of mine that'll make it work with this?

Beed28 said:

Can I make a patch for a certain mod of mine that'll make it work with this?

If you're willing to make the patch yourself, nobody will try to stop you. :)

NinjaLiquidator said:

No problem. Btw you just replaced monsters or also added some? Cause I dont know how this can work in PrBoom when PrBoom allows only replace.

The trick is that MBF added a lot of new stuff (dogs, press release beta versions of lost souls and BFG 2074) so there are more stuff that you can replace and more states to play with in DEHACKED.

Replacements are:
Baron of Hell=>Daedabus
Hell Knight=>Pyro Knight
Spiderdemon=>Cybruiser
Light Amp=>Spiderdemon
Helper Dog=>Arachnorb
Column with Heart=>Lightning Orb
Dead Lost Soul=>Suicide Bomber
Tall Blue Torch=>Diabolist
Wolfenstein SS=>Chaingunner

Valiant is up on /idgames. Yay!

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?file=levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/valiant.zip

Not sure if this has come to your attention, but in MAP10, I got stuck in the Cyberdemon pit. After you kill him... there doesn't seem to be a way to get out. No elevator nor teleports. I had to cheat my way out. I must be missing something?

Why Does the Spider replace the Light Amp Goggles?