Brutal Doom v20 released

Good Lord, 5 pages of butthurt babies whining and bitching. Is this DoomWorld, or Barbie's Butter Boy ButtHurt BabyWorld?

The TimeLine:
. Dude makes over-the-top gory Doom mod
. Dude hypes mod with ridiculously bold statements
. Dude writes some shitty comment in some script file
. Backlash: "Oh I never.." "Oh, my virgin ears".
. Emo logs into Doom website, of all places, for life counseling
. Dude makes pretty damn inappropriate comments to guy, maybe to get him to "man up", or maybe just to be shitty??
. 2 year bashlash...
. Dude releases v20
. Dude hypes mod with ridiculously bold statements
. 5 page backlash...

This guy, and his mod have been collectively demonized 1000x more than anything he ever said or did, as if it were the fashionable thing to do. Crowd mentality at it's finest, people. Boring.

I'm not defending anyone, it's just that Doom is supposed to kick ass, and, instead I'm reading 5 pages of intolerant, whiny drama. Geez.

I'm not a big mod guy myself, but it definitely adds a lot of dimension to all of the enemies: new graphics, new actions, which are good things. And, it aims to kick ass. Congratulations on v20!

kb1 said:

Good Lord, 5 pages of butthurt babies whining and bitching. Is this DoomWorld, or Barbie's Butter Boy ButtHurt BabyWorld?...

That... was amazing. That was well put.

Actually this thread has been pretty tame and downright civil compared to what I've come to expect of Doomworld's BD opinions (such as from the "why dont people like BD" or whatever it was thread from a bit back - IIRC that one had much more extreme opinions). The closest this had to drama was the "better than the original levels" bit, but it didn't even last. Where's the "intolerant whiny drama"?

All of the new graphical improvements over v19 are terrible. More to the point, it's infuriating how BD (by its very nature) bundles together genuinely challenging and enjoyable gameplay elements (the new monster AIs, weapon system, and especially making hitscan enemies fire tracer bullets) with all of the stupid gore elements that get worse with every release. If there were a BD version (but then it wouldn't be "brutal") that only changed the monsters and weapons and left out everything else, I'd play it non-stop.

DeathMetalAccountant said:

If there were a BD version (but then it wouldn't be "brutal") that only changed the monsters and weapons and left out everything else, I'd play it non-stop.

You do know that Brutal Doom has a gore level option right? Turn it on low, or I think ingame it's called Realistic. It should be in this version unless the dev hasn't implemented it yet. I wasn't paying attention if he did or not.

nxGangrel said:

You do know that Brutal Doom has a gore level option right? Turn it on low, or I think ingame it's called Realistic. It should be in this version unless the dev hasn't implemented it yet. I wasn't paying attention if he did or not.

That's not necessarily what I meant but thanks anyhow.

Pirx said:

i couldn't agree more. see, the doom manual says:

"You're a marine, one of Earth's toughest, hardened in combat and trained for action.".

so doomguy is a member of an elite fighting force, who are disciplined professionals, not gun-wielding maniacs. whatever happens, he just clenches his teeth and goes on. this is how i've always seen doomguy's personality. this is the spirit of a more "serious", competitive play, which focuses on beating a map, not necessarily on dismembering whatever stands in your way.

now if mark decided to focus on satisfyingly splatter demons and kick their remains around, i have no problem with that. brutal doom is so over the top gory it's comical. having some mindless fun by kicking corpses around, why not. plenty of people seem to like this, or BD wouldn't have become the most popular doom mod.

actually this is its problem, it seems, because many players, especially veterans, don't like this "BD is what doom was meant to be" babble. it's like a song you like initially, until you hear it so often that you get to hate it.

In the infamous Doom comic the marine was characterized as a full on wisecracking sadist. I always assumed that Brutal Doom was pretty much Doom reimagined through the lens of the comic.

I think I finally understand why Brutal Doom resonates so well with so many people. It has all those newschool features (weapon reloading, iron sights, hit reactions, etc) and because of that it is familiar to players used to modern shooters. It feels up-to-date... but at the same time it's built on the foundation of a fast paced, oldschool game and, inevitably, retains a lot of its qualities (even if modified). So I imagine that, especially to people who aren't hardcore fans, it feels like the old DOOM, just modernized. It may break what we see as a remarkably elegant gameplay balance but obviously a lot of people do not care about that. It's good enough for them as a way to come back to DOOM. They play an old game but it feels up to date because of its modern features.

With v20 I decided to give it a fair amount of playtime. Somehow it's a little less obnoxious than the previous version and, at least on UV, it can be somewhat enjoyable. And I can see that the feature vomit that it offers can be impressive (though lots of things feel tacked on). But it's clear that it can quickly become a clutter and the higher you go with difficulty, the more unbalanced it gets.

Also I've got to say that after spending some time with this mod the whole debate of whether DOOM4 is influenced by it, or how much it's influenced by it became... simply irrelevant. The gameplay will be completely different anyway and if Brutal Doom inspired them to have more stuff happen when you pull the trigger then... good. It's a good direction in general (as proven by RAGE).

But Brutal Doom zealots can go die in fire.

I like Brutal Doom because it does a good job of basically being the unofficial Doom Comic TC.

I've been playing Doom since it came out and still love playing plain old vanilla daily. But I also like Brutal Doom because it provides a new and exciting experience ( as all good mods do ) while feeling faithful in its core game play enough for me to WANT to play it more often than not. I'm assuming all the fuss is more about the fan-boys of the mod giving it such high praise as opposed to the mod itself?

@Touchdown

Besides, Doom 4 will not copy BD verbatim. For example, it will not have reloading or ADS.

kb1 said:

Good Lord, 5 pages of butthurt babies whining and bitching. Is this DoomWorld, or Barbie's Butter Boy ButtHurt BabyWorld?

The TimeLine:
. Dude makes over-the-top gory Doom mod
. Dude hypes mod with ridiculously bold statements
. Dude writes some shitty comment in some script file
. Backlash: "Oh I never.." "Oh, my virgin ears".
. Emo logs into Doom website, of all places, for life counseling
. Dude makes pretty damn inappropriate comments to guy, maybe to get him to "man up", or maybe just to be shitty??
. 2 year bashlash...
. Dude releases v20
. Dude hypes mod with ridiculously bold statements
. 5 page backlash...

This guy, and his mod have been collectively demonized 1000x more than anything he ever said or did, as if it were the fashionable thing to do. Crowd mentality at it's finest, people. Boring.

I'm not defending anyone, it's just that Doom is supposed to kick ass, and, instead I'm reading 5 pages of intolerant, whiny drama. Geez.

I'm not a big mod guy myself, but it definitely adds a lot of dimension to all of the enemies: new graphics, new actions, which are good things. And, it aims to kick ass. Congratulations on v20!

I fully agree with this post as it tells the truth on how people on Doomworld react to Brutal Doom and it's author.

Imback55 said:

I fully agree with this post as it tells the truth on how people on Doomworld react to Brutal Doom and it's author.

Pfffft hahahaaa!

Doomworld's probably the community that ignores the whole debacle the most. Stop trying to shit-stir.

Classic Doom and Brutal Doom is two different gameplay concepts, I like both so much. Thanks to SgtMarkIV for awesome mod, really big thing for the Doom universe.

I'll give it try soon. But honestly, I seem to only find Brutal Doom fun for short bursts. Maybe if I stick with it for a bit I'll see why some people "can't play Doom without it".. Though I am doubtful that will apply to me.

The people here are actually pretty calm about BD, don't know what kb and imback are talking about. If you think this is bad, try making this thread over at ZDoom...

Obsidian said:

Pfffft hahahaaa!

Doomworld's probably the community that ignores the whole debacle the most. Stop trying to shit-stir.

Have you read the previous five pages or other Brutal Doom threads to confirm that what kb1 was saying is true or are you excusing his post as another opinion?

Imback55 said:

Have you read the previous five pages or other Brutal Doom threads to confirm that what kb1 was saying is true or are you excusing his post as another opinion?

Have you forgotten all the other communities and their reactions? In comparison, yes, Doomworld has reacted the least to all the drama that has occurred with Brutal Doom. Now I dunno about you, but I'm gonna download v20 so I can contribute something meaningful to this thread.

Obsidian said:

Pfffft hahahaaa!

Doomworld's probably the community that ignores the whole debacle the most. Stop trying to shit-stir.

He does make a point though. A lot of people complain about all the praise that BD gets and how it's always mentioned in threads about other mods and that people always ask "does it work with Brutal Doom?" However, the vast majority of posts in this thread and other big threads about BD that I've seen on this forum mainly consist of people bitching about how much they hate BD. Honestly, the constant bashing of Brutal Doom has become just about as annoying as the constant praising of it. It almost appears fashionable to hate BD, as if somehow hating BD makes you a "true doomer" and gives you street cred on the forums.

Of course, I am not saying that people's complaints about BD and its author and fans aren't legitimate, but going to extremes and saying things like "Brutal Doom is the shittiest mod ever!" and "all Brutal Doom zealots deserve to die!" is just as retarded as saying "Brutal Doom is the way Doom was meant to be played!"

My point is that people just need to loosen up and be reasonable and stop jumping to extremes. Brutal Doom is a pretty good mod. Some people don't like it, and that's fine. Some people do like it, and that's fine too. It's not necessary that there be so much division over it.

Love it or hate it, you have to admit the amount of time and effort that's been put into Brutal Doom is monumental. Even in this last update, there are a lot of new things I've noticed. Plenty of new enemy frames, features (like squishing noises when walking on the snake floors) and all the little details that make for a cohesive environment. For example, I noticed that when the spider mastermind charges an opponent, you can see the momentum as it lurches to a halt. Or the size of the spent shells coming from its oversized gatling gun dwarfs your own. Or when you have demon strength/berserk, lifting up an explosive barrel slows you down. There's much more, but that's just to make a point. I'm sure someone who's more observant than me could come up with additional details I'm overlooking.

Could I do without the expletives and, IMO, immature touches? Yeah (though they did remove the BoH/HK nut kicking feature...good). But I'm absolutely impressed at how much effort must have gone into it overall. I'd argue that most of the features enhance an already great game and builds on its legendary gameplay, like turning the demons into more than bullet sponges in this update. The old Doomers lining up to spew hate on this mod reminds me of irritable hipsters who talk about how they liked "XYZ thing" before it was popular and now it's ruined.

This thread needs brutal font.

Imback55 said:

Have you read the previous five pages or other Brutal Doom threads to confirm that what kb1 was saying is true or are you excusing his post as another opinion?

I have read the entire thread just now. There's very little of the sort of irrational hatred you, kb1 and doom_is_great attempt to present as "Doomworld's opinion" here. There's actually quite a spectrum of reactions and most of the criticism is calm and analytical, both from people who oppose the concept (like Antroid's good points) and those who played BD and didn't like certain features. Most clearly defined "hate" came against Mark's claim re: his maps being better than id's and that one has yet to be decided.

Maybe next next time you'd like to include links to sources of your claims so your whining doesn't sound like an attempt to curb criticism and shame people speaking up.

The vanilla shotgun really pisses me off just because of that tiny flesh coloured thing poking out of the bottom right. I assume it's his pinky finger but why would it be so far from the rest of his fingers? It's next to the rest when he pumps it.

I'm also somewhat disappointed that this didn't really add a whole lot more to what it already had. I mean it had a lot before, and it's nowhere near as rushed as v19 was but it just doesn't feel like it was worth waiting for it when v18 exists.

What also pisses me off (if I haven't brought it up) are the teenagers and young adults who got into Doom via BD but don't play Doom without the mod and think using BD is the real way to play the game.

Kids and men, if you want the full Doom experience for once, please play the game without the mod autoloading with whatever you use, which also includes not using high res texture mods as well.

I mean, if they're intent on playing the game that way and that's how they enjoy it, who is anyone else to say they need to play it some other way for the "real" experience? I can definitely agree that's not my #1 way to enjoy doom but if it is for someone else, then I think that's ok too

Jaguar Doom is the real doom experience.

Glaice said:

What also pisses me off (if I haven't brought it up) are the teenagers and young adults who got into Doom via BD but don't play Doom without the mod and think using BD is the real way to play the game.

Why does it piss you off? Why do you care how others play Doom? I see people talk about annoying brutal doom fans all the time, but what you just said is a fine example of why I feel many vanilla fans can be annoying as well. There is no official correct way to play Doom.

Why do we care? Because it gives non-hardcore fans a wrong impression of what DOOM actually is. But whatever, the damage has already been done.

Touchdown said:

Why do we care? Because it gives non-hardcore fans a wrong impression of what DOOM actually is. But whatever, the damage has already been done.

What exactly is a non-hardcore fan?

Jaxxoon R said:

Jaguar Doom is the real doom experience.

Paired up with the 32x's glorious cacophony of farts.