People actually liked Plutonia?

MetroidJunkie said:

One positive thing I'll say about Plutonia is it has, in my opinion, the most competent demos out of all of them. Honestly, in most of the others, it looks like they were trying to get killed on purpose. On Plutonia, they're more legit, especially the third one where he gets blindsided by a Cyberdemon and it makes sense because the Cyberdemon was distracted a second prior to that so he probably thought he could make it through.

meaning the casalis have achieved their goal of giving the player a challenge that was pretty unheard of at that time.

the theme is very consistent, which makes it visually a bit monotonous indeed. but those who say it's overly brown should take a look at quake.

Pirx said:

meaning the casalis have achieved their goal of giving the player a challenge that was pretty unheard of at that time.

the theme is very consistent, which makes it visually a bit monotonous indeed. but those who say it's overly brown should take a look at quake.

At least it suggests that they themselves are capable enough players to get through their own challenges for the most part.

SavageCorona said:

What you mean revenants in every level like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GyjcvR0hjY

I want a download of this

MetroidJunkie said:

One positive thing I'll say about Plutonia is it has, in my opinion, the most competent demos out of all of them. Honestly, in most of the others, it looks like they were trying to get killed on purpose. On Plutonia, they're more legit, especially the third one where he gets blindsided by a Cyberdemon and it makes sense because the Cyberdemon was distracted a second prior to that so he probably thought he could make it through.

The worst has to be the E1M5 demo, where the player basically rushes to that secret Shotgun (when killing a Shotgun Guy nearby probably would have been better), tries to run past all the enemies and takes significant damage doing do, and is basically left with nothing afterwards.

I mean, even the demos in Shareware Doom looked like an honest effort was put in.

Diamhea said:

Love Plutonia, but for some reason TNT has individual maps that stuck with me more over the years. The Mill, Steel Works, Wormhole, Hanger, Shipping-Respawning.

I agree 100%, especially on Wormhole (such a great map).

But you left out River Styx, Quarry, Crater, Metal, both secret levels, and of course, Mount Pain.

Also the music! Into the Beast's Belly and Death's Bells are reason enough to play TNT.

I really only like Wormhole for the music.

The map itself is like, WTF is this shit. Looks like something I'd have made when I was in 6th grade learning mapping for the first time.

wormhole is actually one of the most memorable maps for me. playing it as a kid (before I was jaded with knowing the ins and outs of editing) I actually fell for the whole 'alternate universe' teleporter thing, I remember being blown away by the effect. Nowadays though I usually just exit immediately once I'm done appreciating the ost :D

Modern level authors could learn a lot about brevity from Plutonia. It's very clear the Casalis had specific gameplay sequences in mind when designing Plutonia, and anything superfluous was excised. A lot of modern maps seem to combine Plutonia-esque gameplay with huge, sprawling layouts that are like a more grandiose version of Knee-Deep in the Dead (or worse, poorly connected noodly layouts) and it devolves into a tedious grind. Plutonia feels distilled by comparison.

That said, Aztec can go get sacrificed to Huitzilopochtli because it's a shit level.

I like Plutonia exactly because it feels so tough and gritty.

Like I always say - Final Doom has two sides - the light side (Evilution - cool level design and impressive architecture architecture) and the dark side (Plutonia - crude, dark, tough, unforgiving). Together they make something great :)

After completing all Doom IWADs on UV I can say that Plutonia is the most dickish and exhausting IWAD.

I did enjoy it though, playing through that shit on UV actually made me a better player all together, I learned how to correctly use a BFG for maximum effect, I found out how to deal with up close and personal boss enemies, I found out how to deal with huge crowds of revenants and on top of it all I learned a few useful mapping tricks.

Still hate the idea of doing a second run though, fuck that.

I loved it. For the longest time I hated it because of the first few levels, but one day I sat down for the first time and played through, totally amazed by later maps architecture, regretting I went that many years without beating it.

It's a mixed bag for me, the level layouts are good and the difficulty make Plutonia re-playable and fun. I always liked TNT more because there seems to be more effort put into it despite some mediocre maps. (MAP19, MAP06) I do agree though that the constant use of Chaingunners and Revs gets on my nerves, but not as much as Erik used revs in Scythe 1. A lot of those chaingunners could have been swapped with zombiemen. I like the use of zombiemen they can put a hurt on the player if used correctly, and who doesn't love mowing them down like in TNT Evilution's map 14?

Fonze said:

Also the music! Into the Beast's Belly and Death's Bells are reason enough to play TNT.

yes i really like to be assaulted with SUPER COOL METAL MUSICS in my ears when playing Doom.

that's not to say every track in the game is like that, and there are some cool songs in the game overall for sure, but some of the songs are just too fucking loud.

Doomhuntress said:

yes i really like to be assaulted with SUPER COOL METAL MUSICS in my ears when playing Doom.

that's not to say every track in the game is like that, and there are some cool songs in the game overall for sure, but some of the songs are just too fucking loud.

Uhh... Turn the music down?

Fonze said:

Uhh... Turn the music down?

Or load a custom music WAD.

It's no secret that TNT's music wasn't made with MS Wavetable Synth in mind

peach freak said:

The worst has to be the E1M5 demo, where the player basically rushes to that secret Shotgun (when killing a Shotgun Guy nearby probably would have been better), tries to run past all the enemies and takes significant damage doing do, and is basically left with nothing afterwards.

I mean, even the demos in Shareware Doom looked like an honest effort was put in.

The shareware version of that level's demo is definitely much better. He got a little stupid when he shot a zombieman with the rocket launcher point blank but, miraculously, managed to survive for quite a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qztuEucrNBc

Clonehunter said:

I want a download of this

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/72936-dem-bones-swaps-nearly-every-monster-with-revenants/

Fonze said:

Uhh... Turn the music down?

that's what i do, but it's not the point. the point is that some of the songs are too loudly mixed and could do with less volume assault. Bucket's remix of Into The Beast's Belly shows just that with less volume warning the track is a lot more enjoyable to hear.

IMX said:

It's no secret that TNT's music wasn't made with MS Wavetable Synth in mind

also, i'm curious to know what you meant by this?

Hmm... Well I guess we're just from 2 different schools of thought. I love all Doom music, and I turn down the sound effects to about 50% and the music all the way up. And when into the beasts belly comes on, I'm always thrilled.

I've hated every remastering of that song because the harmonies are much easier to hear in the original midi.

plutonia wasn't very enjoyable for me. i found myself camping all THE. TIME. however that's probably because i suck at doom.

Plutonia its all about instant traps, mossy bricks, chaingunner/revenant spam, crude map names, walls in thickets.

I like the usage of the original Doom music mixed with Doom 2 in Plutonia, just gives it a nostalgia vibe while being fresh and new at the same time. The new Plutonia music pack has neat tunes as well, though if a different music selection was implemented, Heretic's music would be fitting, at least for the time Plutonia came out, though Duke Nukem 3D's soundtrack would be moreso, IMO.

I haven't played all of Plutonia (yet) but it certainly strikes me as more memorable than TNT, I like the design more. But Plutonia is pretty cheap and I'll probably never play that one in nightmare mode.