Is it okay to like Sonic ?

geo said:

I'm waiting one day for:

How come I don't see "hits blunt" on my account?

GoatLord said:

How come I don't see "hits blunt" on my account?

I've seen it so much I just assume one of the admins made it your reverse signature. Instead of at the bottom, its at the top.

GoatLord said:

It's uncomfortable as fuck, to say the least, to see a completely non-sexual thing like a kid's video game character being placed in a borderline or explicitly sexual context. It's not about being the morality police, or my childhood being stained, so much as it is that with most other franchises that I enjoy, I can avoid the weird stuff quite easily. With Sonic, it's out there in the open. Which is kinda odd, because not many franchises are like that.

Well, there are two things at play here:

1. Finding it creepy and uncomfortable is fine too, it means you don't share the fetish. It's basically another opinion (I feel the same way about Sonic fetishists...), but you can still let other people have their fun and ignore it.

2. Is it really hard to avoid? Honest question. I like Sonic, particularly the old games (never had much of a problem with the new ones, just feel they don't fit my tastes), but not a huge fan to seek out communities around it.

Here's a question, are side scrollers easier to be better games?

geo said:

Here's a question, are side scrollers easier to be better games?

Possibly, but the fanbase would be critizing It just like they did with Sonic 4 (which I found very enjoyable).

I think that depends, geo. Nowadays people expect full 3D, movable camera, etc. That makes a game look much better and nowadays much more professional to have those features in a game. Problem is, that's gonna take a lot more time to get working and *looking good.* If a developer spends the same amount of time on a 2D game vs a 3D game, logic would state that the 2D game should have a lot more content. As a result, many indie 2D games are awesome and a lot of the indie 3D games are total shit.

Take Terraria or even (lol)Starbound and compare it to Minecraft. Content vs appearance.

However, 3D games like Minecrap will always attract more people.

Tritnew said:

Possibly, but the fanbase would be critizing It just like they did with Sonic 4 (which I found very enjoyable).

Yeah I liked the 4th episode 1. I never understood the physics complaint. Sonic 4 episode 2 was a lot like the GBA games which were all good, but very similar to one another the buzz dropped off after the first.

geo said:

Yeah I liked the 4th episode 1. I never understood the physics complaint. Sonic 4 episode 2 was a lot like the GBA games which were all good, but very similar to one another the buzz dropped off after the first.

Yeah, but that's pretty much the fanbase for ya. It's litterally garbage, I'm somehow lucky to have friends that are sane Sonic fans though. But If you ever get hands on a copy of Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric, either return It to the store or give It to a little Brother or Cousin. Because It's litteral garbage, It's sad but true.

But if they're so fanatical why do they hate them?

geo said:

But if they're so fanatical why do they hate them?

I do not know, I can't even question the Sonic fanbase anymore, It's literally that bad nowadays.

geo said:

I never understood the physics complaint.

Sonic can stand upside-down on the ceiling, on walls, get pinned by monitors, not obey Newton's first law, not accelerate while rolling down slopes.

For something presenting itself as a direct, equal sequel to the classics, it makes no effort to reproduce the most critical parts.

It'd be like if Capcom fucked up the physics for Mega Man 9 and it played nothing like the originals, with Mega Man stopping dead in his tracks randomly and sliding around everywhere worse than Luigi.

Jaxxoon R said:

Sonic can stand upside-down on the ceiling, on walls, get pinned by monitors, not obey Newton's first law, not accelerate while rolling down slopes.

For something presenting itself as a direct, equal sequel to the classics, it makes no effort to reproduce the most critical parts.

It'd be like if Capcom fucked up the physics for Mega Man 9 and it played nothing like the originals, with Mega Man stopping dead in his tracks randomly and sliding around everywhere worse than Luigi.

That's not really a Issue with Sonic 4, Mega Man sort of Isn't running at 100 Mph and going through loops.

Which is exactly why intuitive controls that reflect natural laws, like the classics had, is even more so important in a Sonic game that claims to be like the classics.

And I gave that Mega Man example purely for the principle, if Mega Man 9 pretended to be like the classics but utterly failed to do so, everyone familiar with classic Mega Man would hate it as well.

Tritnew said:

That's not really a Issue with Sonic 4.

That's not the point. That game did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to replicate classic gameplay mechanics other than re-hashing enemies, bosses, levels, etc. Man, the stupid homing attack alone ruined any type of control the player had to utilize in the classic platformers, rendering the game almost automatic at the push of a button. But I know what your saying: "well you didn't have to us that function" except, you DID because Sonic would unroll leaving himself vulnerable mid jump instead of remaining in a ball.

Technician said:

That's not the point. That game did absolutely nothing - NOTHING - to replicate classic gameplay mechanics other than re-hashing enemies, bosses, levels, etc. Man, the stupid homing attack alone ruined any type of control the player had to utilize in the classic platformers, rendering the game almost automatic at the push of a button. But I know what your saying: "well you didn't have to us that function" except, you DID because Sonic would unroll leaving himself vulnerable mid jump instead of remaining in a ball.

That's where Sonic 4: Episode 2 came to sort of fix that Issue, It had the homing attack, yes, but It sure as hell beated Episode 1 In every way possible and It looked better visually and graphically. I can relate on the side note there though.

Jaxxoon R said:

Which is exactly why intuitive controls that reflect natural laws, like the classics had, is even more so important in a Sonic game that claims to be like the classics.

And I gave that Mega Man example purely for the principle, if Mega Man 9 pretended to be like the classics but utterly failed to do so, everyone familiar with classic Mega Man would hate it as well.

I can agree there. It's the same Issue with DOOM, If It's nothing like the original, It's gonna suck, maybe to some fanboys at least.

Jaxxoon R said:

Sonic can stand upside-down on the ceiling, on walls, get pinned by monitors, not obey Newton's first law, not accelerate while rolling down slopes.

For something presenting itself as a direct, equal sequel to the classics, it makes no effort to reproduce the most critical parts.

It'd be like if Capcom fucked up the physics for Mega Man 9 and it played nothing like the originals, with Mega Man stopping dead in his tracks randomly and sliding around everywhere worse than Luigi.

Which monitors?

I think I've got 8 hours in Sonic 4 episode 1 and I never really noticed any physics errors, but I guess I wasn't trying. After watching a few videos it seems like the homing attack makes the game glitch. If you intentionally wrong time it against the rhythm it does seem like it will cause issues like getting stuck in an animation.

Now that I know about it I will probably see it over and over again. I have it on the phone and PC.

Hasn't Sonic always able to spin and run on the ceiling, even in parts where he should fly off, he traces around areas. Like if he goes from a ceiling, sloped UP a wall, he sticks on it and its always been like that even with the second and third games.

I do remember the original Sonic games let Sonic stand on a wall if it was up a ramp. I've even gotten him to tap his feet. Yes I know anecdotal evidence. Funny thing is I can find a video of the same glitch in Sonic 4.

Sonic 1 lets me speed run by glitching through walls.

If we want to discuss realistic physics, Sonic can run on water like one of those lizards and how he can run underwater. Not to mention he can even fly when he's Super Sonic. Oh yeah and he can stand on a biplane with no problem. Even jump too. Somehow rolling into a ball can launch Sonic what should be hundreds of feet in the air.

Somehow physics glitches make other games fun like Goat Simulator, but not Sonic?

*** edit without bumping ***
I spent 10 minutes trying to recreate some of the glitches and I just couldn't. The only thing close to a glitch I could create is running up a 90 degree slope at just the right speed can make sonic just about stop at 90 degrees. If I keep pushing forward he will walk at the top of the ramp horizontal when normal physics would make him fall back on his head. If I let go of forward, then je just trots back down the slope.

Sonic seems to be able to stop on a dime when coming down a ramp. Such as 2 ramps, both with 90 degree angles, you're supposed to go down one and up the other. Well when you come down the ramp, and push into the direction of the ramp you just came down, it will stop Sonic at the height of the ramp rather than make him roll down.

Running down and up seemed to be a pain though, like I had to do it the way the game wanted me. I couldn't roll in a ball to have it make me go down, then back up. I had to run to the right to go down and keep running up the wall to get up to the top of the U ramp. Because apparently shoes for running make Sonic go faster than even a spin dash or rolling in a ball. Now that I understand that, I can work with it.

I can't seem to recreate any of the homing attack errors or getting wedged between bumpers. Maybe its the Wii version.

geo said:

Funny Somehow physics glitches make other games fun like Goat Simulator, but not Sonic?

Goat Simulator is designed to be terrible, ironically bad. Sonic 4 is a serious professional product that through apathy is mediocre.

Tritnew said:

I can agree there. It's the same Issue with DOOM, If It's nothing like the original, It's gonna suck, maybe to some fanboys at least.

Except no. Because Doom 4's changes stand on their own as quality features. This is just the same but worse. And remember, Doom 4 is not Doom 4, it is simply "Doom." It does it's own thing and doesn't pretend they're one in the same.

Sonic 4's marketing was entirely "YEAH JUST LIKE THE CLASSICS THIS IS SONIC 4 AS YOU TRULY IMAGINED IT RETURN TO THE ORIGINALS."

The Graphics in Sonic 4 Episode 1 suck, however they look much better in Episode 2 (the stage are Real 3D) .

Jaxxoon R said:

Except no. Because Doom 4's changes stand on their own as quality features. This is just the same but worse. And remember, Doom 4 is not Doom 4, it is simply "Doom." It does it's own thing and doesn't pretend they're one in the same.

Sonic 4's marketing was entirely "YEAH JUST LIKE THE CLASSICS THIS IS SONIC 4 AS YOU TRULY IMAGINED IT RETURN TO THE ORIGINALS."

The way I see It, YouTube comments and Facebook comments are filled with people bashing DOOM 2016 so early when they didn't even get a controller In their hand and played It, It's like a huge cancer.

Tritnew said:

It's like a huge cancer.

Not to mention people bringing up COD and telling it's better than DOOM .

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Not to mention people bringing up COD and telling it's better than DOOM .

Just like Sonic they churn out one once every year. I mean COD. Still never played a COD game before.

geo said:

Still never played a COD game before.

I Played MW4, and i honestly didn't see what's so interesting about it, just about going straight forward and killing (Kill this guy, destroy this tank, Find this guy ... etc) , you also may have to destroy targets sometimes .

DMGUYDZ64 said:

I Played MW4, and i honestly didn't see what's so interesting about it, just about going straight forward and killing (Kill this guy, destroy this tank, Find this guy ... etc) , you also may have to destroy targets sometimes .

Contra is just how you've described it. Straight forward or in some cases up, kill this guy, destroy this tank. Find this guy.... and kill him :-)

Anyway Sonic! Yes Sonic! Blue guy!

So is it time for Sega to pack up Sonic for a few years and just let him die outside of being a Smash Bros cameo, in a racing game or Mario vs Sonic Olympics? "Make better games" is always the easy answer, but well here we are 20+ years later.

geo said:

Contra is just how you've described it. Straight forward or in some cases up, kill this guy, destroy this tank. Find this guy.... and kill him :-)

Yet contra has a Simplier gameplay than COD, cod is filled with overpowered weps that are useless in some cases , It seems to focus more about the Quality and Multiplayer than focusing about good fast paced gameplay .

geo said:

Straight forward or in some cases up, kill this guy, destroy this tank. Find this guy.... and kill him :-)

Sounds more like Laser Tank.

..what the fuck.

The Sonic games were better than average side scrollers and were genuinely guaranteed to probably not suck if you rented or bought it.. The Genesis really didn't have a whole lot else to offer in that field. Most of the side scrollers on that system were really clunky.

Sonic fandom is the crusty edge of a molding culture in decline. Not that I have anything against a declining culture or anything.. but come on, man.

Yeah, about the only alternatives you had were Treasure titles, Rocket Knight, Turrican, and the one Castlevania game.

Hey now don't forget about Cool Spot ;p

Rocket Knight was really good. Vectorman should have twice the fan base Sonic has.