ROP 2015: Finished!

ROP 2015 - Alpha v2

Update
-A new level by The Cupboard added making this a complete episode!
-Texture pack updated to fix a few minor glitches
-An awesome new song by Eris Falling added
-E1M5: Blistering Catacombs now structurally complete (though its gameplay still needs an overhaul)
-Levels reorganized to help with episode flow, still subject to change

Arcane Corridor: Professional-looking map in my opinion because it *looks* like a lived-in place. A lot of open flowing spaces that make this one fun to navigate. I must say, add another silver shield near the 1st wizard swam perhaps. Just to signal to the player, "this map is going to teach you to play carefully, and I'm only warning you once". IMHO. GJ Du Mhan Yhu

I'm still banging away at mine. Hoping to have it finished, but some things you can't force. Unless you add an exit like a tard and claim to evertone you're finished :D

The Magistrates Tomb: I like how it reminds me of the original Heretic E2/E3. A bit abstract and some curious interactive texture choices that keep you tapping the spacebar once in a while. There could have been a couple bad guys released or teleported in once you get the green key, so they could guard the door.

Blistering Catacombs: Looks like it needs a name change because the automap still reads "citadel". I made it through this one just fine, not sure what my problem was a few months ago, perhaps Egregor made it easier for us simpletons. Seems like a good romp. Maybe I should remove a little ammo from the previous map, Fossilized, to make this one a little more difficult as it was intended... This one is a brilliant set-piece. So many memorable areas. And fighting the 2 maulotaurs without a tome or ring was slightly challenging, yet 100% fair battle. Luckily I had 2 flasks and an urn so I was fighting with luck on my side. Sadly, I blazed through this one without finding a secret because I had too much fun to stop and look for them.

I will pause for now and let others post their thoughts if they are to be had. My continuous playthrough will carry on in a short while.

Profanum Sanctum: This map is like candy. Except for that final elevator. I wish it could be more efficient, but I guess it is okay since the rest of the map is good. Great use of D'Sparil teleportation and wizard spawning.

System Shutdown: Gonna have to agree with DoomHuntress about the incompletion. It seems like it has Liches and a Maulotaur for no reason. If there are some side paths added that don't have to floor-damage the player, more light variation, some traps, then it would be an ok secret map or e2m1/e2m2.

The Reservoir: Very cool river of coffins. I've never seen that in a pwad before. :> Apparently the slime flat is there by mistake, but it appear intentional after some exploration. It is an odd choice, but the author's decision. There is an unnecessary upper texture of dark gray bricks appearing inside the waterfall maze, causing the sidedef to bleed into the ceiling. Is it just me or is there a stuck golem in the red carpet room (he is up high), I might have bumped him earlier, IDK, someone please double-check? I think the final boss chamber is cool, but could there be another wave of bad guys who come pouring out from behind the white demon walls (lowered floors) once the liches are dead using the boss death tag? Consequently, make the exit room only available as the white demon walls lower and stick some high-health monsters to guard the exit switch. After the end of e1m8, a room full of monsters is revealed following the death of all liches on the map. It serves as a cool-down area, and a small ambush to milk the player dry.


Nightstone Hollow: Suspenseful, to the max. A lot of innovative mapping was involved in this, some of which is inscrutable without peeking in the editor..

Still going, hoping to submit mine soon.

Yet another "Still going" update. The creative mapping juices are flowing like crazy. I plan to have it complete by Tuesday Sept 1st is not sooner.

Got on a major mapping streak and finished early. Egregor & Cupboard, you both have a pm.

I played on difficulty setting 4 and did not die, I saved the game 3 times.

IMHO there is plenty of ammo I would subtract 100 runes, 10 flame orbs, 100-200 mace ammo. I finished the map with 1 flask, 1 tome, and 1 bomb, so the artifacts were balanced ok. I only found 4/6 secrets and I did not find the firemace. Health and armor seemed ok, but the map was a bit on the easy side. There could have been a trap near the blue key door once you backtracked to that area, maybe have some bad guys teleport in or something. Likewise when you get the green key. That way you are repopulating that large bright hallway (that functions as the map's hub, imho.)

There are enough details, and some imaginative usage of textures. Some uses I have never seen before, but that is not a bad thing.

By the "blue armchair" (behind it is a large waterfall), it is possible to clamber across the chair and go onto the handrail and fall in the water pit. Maybe add some impassable middletextures in that area or make the chair taller.

Also the picnic table inside the village's secret building which houses the quartz flasks: all 4 chairs have bleeding flats on the floor.

I think on the bright green TRISTONE elevator in the slime pit, put some 16 pixel wide metal or wood textures to entice the player to press spacebar in that area. 2 maulotaurs in the map is just fine imho, and there are a lot of puzzles involved in this map so it isn't just about mowing down enemies, which I thought was cool. This slime chamber was my favorite spot to look at, the green and yellow complement nicely.

There are a few bleeding sectors or missing textures: pic1 and pic2 (this sector is bleeding in 2 spots actually)

Suggestion for new content: a building with or without doors but has either 1 or multiple crushers, but has a low low enough ceiling awning to prevent a maulotaur from getting crushed accidentally. That way the crusher can protect some of the extra ammunition that is lying around unguarded from being acquired without a challenge. It can be a strictly optional area, not crucial to solving the blue/green puzzles. I just thought maybe something could fit in this corner for extra interest.

It's very strange that you didn't find the firemace. Are you sure you didn't it pick it up without noticing? It's smack dab in the middle of the "hub" area complete with sphere piles.

I had an issue prior where the mace wouldn't show on the easy difficulty but that was simply a case of not all the difficulty flags selected. They're all checked off, that Firemace should be there. The map probably felt easy as I don't play alot of Heretic. I tried to make it so it could be beaten on difficulty five from a wand start.

Traps could work, they begin to feel cliche when the player always expects shit to go down when they grab a key. Noted.

Armchairs? They're "thrones" :D. I had forgotten about being all able to fall into the water that spot. Add that to things to fix.

The graphical glitches aren't visible when using GZDOOM haha. But I'll fix them up. The slime chamber is my favorite too. Did that whole area and the exit along with monster placement and gameplay balancing on my Saturday mapping bender.

That corner is awfully naked so off to more ideas.

Great feedback, I appreciate it. (too lazy to use multiple quotes so hopefully it all makes sense for you)

SYS said:

It's very strange that you didn't find the firemace. Are you sure you didn't it pick it up without noticing? It's smack dab in the middle of the "hub" area complete with sphere piles.

Remember that the Fire Mace only has a certain % of appearing. It doesn't always appear.

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Firemace

I'll be the first to admit I don't really know shit about Heretic. But I managed a decent map. With that knowledge, the fire mace is now guaranteed to appear.

Sent off updated and hopefully final version to Egregor and Mr.Cupboard.

3 maulotaurs? heh, are you sure about that? I like the small details you've added, I think it's mostly ok at this point, it's a good map overall.

I was simply following your suggestions for new content :D

ROP 2015 - Beta v1

Update
-Sky color changed from orange to blue.
-New level Grimoire Haeresis by SYS added.
-Level Blistering Catacombs by Egregor updated.
-Levels/music has been moved.

EDIT: Now that the beta is compiled let's play test through the episode! Since it is a community project I encourage open feedback from anyone.

Anyone else getting unknown textures when they open their level up in DB? I dunno what the hell's going on, they show up in ZDoom.

. . . I must have incorrectly updated the PNAMES or TEXTURES1 or TEXTURES2 lumps when I switched the sky colors. I only tested it in zdoom.

EDIT: from what I can tell Cupboard was using an older version of the texture pack to create their levels. Any texture that was renamed in a newer version appears as a missing texture in editors but apparently zdoom knows which new textures to use to fill in the gaps. I have no idea why. Maybe it has to do with the PNAMES or TEXTURES1/2 lumps?

Beta play test feedback

Level: E1M1
Title: Cragskull
Author: The Cupboard

Kills: 100%
Items: 100%
Secrets: 100%
Time: 11:38 (I was writing notes)
Finished: 1st attempt, on Hard
(This wasn't actually my first play-through of it so my stats aren't really reliable)

First the bad; It appears as if you've been using an outdated texture pack to work on your levels The Cupboard. This could cause some engines to render the textures as unidentifiable. I know Doom Builder doesn't recognize them. I must admit, this is partially my fault for putting so many versions out, so I apologize for that.

Also, I did manage to find the northern most imp stuck, caught behind some trees. I'd suggest going around the edges and finding anywhere with extra detail and marking it 'block monster'. Think of it like you are childproofing your house, because lets face it, Heretic's enemies are often dumb as toddlers :P

Other than that I found this level a blast! The layout and the gameplay are spot on. Its challenging but not too hard, the item balance seemed perfect, and the atmosphere might be the best of the set! Personally, I would adjust the brightness of the entire map down by 32, or even 16, but on the other hand the colors really do pop out at 192 so it seems fine. The use of ice was also a really cool touch. I feel this level works perfectly as an opener for the episode.

I'm going to do these when I can but I'm moving at the end of this month and it may be a while before I get back to Doomworld.

E1M2: Arcane Corridor by Du Mhan Yhu

1st death:hard, In the central hub
2nd death:hard, Beyond the green key door
3rd death:hard, In the SE Lich pit
4th death:hard, In the central hub

5th attempt success, medium difficulty:
kills 162/183
items 18/22
secrets 1/3
time 34:06

Wow, this level is terrific! Diagonal symmetry is a major theme, as well as 'near symmetry', both of which I love to see in levels. There was lots of unique ideas and traps, clever backtracking and level weaving, done really well. I totally fell for the crusher trap the first time. The level is dripping with atmosphere and set pieces and the texture pack has been put to good use here. Alfonzo's Mystic Tides really compliments the atmosphere here as well. One of the best parts was the magical reveal near the end. Du Mhan Yhu has mastered the 'floor raises to the lowest ceiling' trick, using it for all types of cool stuff.

Awesome gameplay, really well balanced, and challenging. It played more like Doom than Heretic, and I mean that in a good way. On hard I became maxed out on hell staff ammo before getting a chance to get the hell staff each time. I died twice in the central hub, it seemed to be too hard. I could not beat the level on hard, but medium difficulty seemed to be a good fit for me, which also seemed pretty well balanced.

Really impressive stuff!

It's been a real great set to play through so far. I'm quite humbled having my map alongside such great mapping talent. My feedback is relatively vague as I didn't chronicle #deaths or saves, but I've playing through on hard.

E1M1 - Great intro map with a non-linear layout from the get-go.

E1M2 - gave me grief on hard difficulty, but it's supposed too. Constant plunge into situations where you have projectiles from all angles. Beautiful layout.

E1M3 - has trees in places where they're supposed to be small pillars. Could be really challenging from a wand start if the player can't figure out they need to make a rush for the ethereal crossbow. There's alot stuff running at the player from the get-go keeping them on their toes.

E1M4 - Amazingly detailed cavernous ruins of a ancient temple. Great music track for this one too. Great playthrough, difficulty was spot-on. - Missing textures in doombuilder.

E1M5 - Giving feedback for a playthrough of my own work is masturbatory and won't offer anything constructive.

As I recall, I used the 2nd version of the resource pwad because the 4th edition was giving me all kinds of ??? in Doom Builder 2. Err, I might download GZDoom builder and see if that fixes things. Thx for the feedback when I get some time I'll sit down and grind out the necessary fixes

E1M6 - Really big, Mausoleum-like areas. This one was tough, but appropriately so on hard. The lift after the blue door leading up to a huge swarm of enemies and no where to run or dodge was really cheap. If I didn't have crystal flasks to hammer the INV USE button with, I'd have been screwed. The enemies teleporting in after grabbing the blue key should spawn on the other side where the blue door is. I just ran past them all spawning in instead of fighting them.

Disciple orgy & D'Sparil at end was tough. Thankfully I still had the invincibility ring from a E1M2 secret. I knew I held onto it for a reason lol.

E1M7 - still need go through it, but this one needs health at start after the player survives the previous map.

E1M3: The Magistrates Tomb by General Rainbow Bacon

1st play, hard: I died on first crusher
2nd play, hard: I finished!

kills: 117/117
items: 18/22
secrets: 1/3
time: 18:20

The structure and layout of this level are pretty good. There are a few cool themes and a few really good ideas. Others have complained that there are 'mandatory secrets' to proceed but I don't see a problem with it. There is a slime trail at sectors 248/249, its a NE lava pit. Also the short pillars were replaced by trees so a substitute should be found because right now they seem out of place.

GRB is a master at speed mapping, and I would not be surprised to find out this map was actually finished in very little time. It also has a very old school Heretic feel to it, even with the texture pack being used. This seems to be because of simple yet bold and effective structural decisions on behalf of The General. My only complaint is that it seems a little too rough around the edges. At times it seems a little too bland or generic for my tastes. Even just a few more sectors or lighting detail could go a long way in this map. The yellow key area was aesthetically confusing to me. Perhaps giant rock 'pillars' could be added to the center of those circles to so they aren't floating.

Gameplay here is solid. There are a lot of encounters that stand out. The 64 wide corridor battles tended to be less dynamic than they should have been. The entire NE corner of the map would benefit from having the corridors widened to 96 so there is some dodging possible. This would also make that area larger, and could create an opportunity to redesign those encounters to make them more exciting.

The ammo balance seemed right. The level was perhaps a tad too easy. I'd like to see disciples added to the warrior ghost battle near the end. The yellow key area encounters also seemed too bland and easy. Maybe there could be some enemies released to above ground when the yellow key is grabbed?

Besides a few minor complaints a solid level. With another pass I think this level could be quite good.

E1M7 - Visually appealing, well executed, and non linear. Constant hazards and surprises lurking everywhere for the player. Some tough fights, but the right amount of health, armor, and artifacts balances it perfectly. Easily one of my favorites so far.

E1M8 - Felt a little anti climatic, but I get that it's a smaller traditional iron lich boss map. It just felt like you reach this huge crescendo at E1M6 and then E1M7 tapers a little, and then it falls flat at E1M8.

Just my two cents.

SYS said:

E1M8 - Felt a little anti climatic, but I get that it's a smaller traditional iron lich boss map. It just felt like you reach this huge crescendo at E1M6 and then E1M7 tapers a little, and then it falls flat at E1M8.

Just my two cents.

At a guess I'd say that the big grandiose maps won't be in the first episode if we somehow manage to get the full 27 maps, so I probably won't expand on E1M8 too much. Oh yes, and don't forget to check out E1M9.

Obsidian said:

At a guess I'd say that the big grandiose maps won't be in the first episode if we somehow manage to get the full 27 maps, so I probably won't expand on E1M8 too much. Oh yes, and don't forget to check out E1M9.

This project simply hasn't gotten enough maps to do much more than an episode with. With that said I'm not too worried about the flow. We do need to add a secret exit to one of these levels so players can actually get to E1M9. If anyone is interested in adding it to their level please PM me about it.

E1M4: Fossilized by The Cupboard

first play, hard: died on the first iron lich
2 slime trail on side bricks in the iron gates area (sectors 107 and 152)

second play, hard: died in the crate storage room
Some of the secrets are a bit easy to find, perhaps unmark/unsecret a few of them?

third play, hard: died on that same iron lich again!
Part of the SW of the map appears to have just been stretched out. Perhaps this was for gameplay reasons, but now it sticks out and should get detailed/unstraightened/made rocky. To a lesser extent the edges of the hell staff area and gateway area could also use some 'rockification'.

The music seems more suited for a space port or military base level. Honestly I feel it detracts from the setting. That's not to say the song is bad, it just not the right fit.

EDIT:

fourth try, hard: completed!

kills: 94/143
items: 19/31
secrets: 3/10
time: 18:48

After killing the second iron lich I was running low on every type of ammo but went into the gk door anyways. Inside I found a pile of enemies, including another iron lich! I knew at that point that I had too little ammo to clear the room and was taking damage fast. So I ran around the room looking for health/ammo and the exit. I ran up to the weredragon battle and saw the exit behind them. I had to keep running right into the exit or I would have died.

I found another slime trail in the northern firemace room.

The firemace did not spawn for me on this playthrough, leaving ammo very tight. Because of this critical game flaw I feel the use of the firemace should be abandoned in all Heretic levels, period.

The gameplay here is good but often chaotic, with 5 or more enemies to deal with at a time. With the ammo so tight snipers are often left alive creating pressure at the players back, which I actually like. Though, at times it seems unfair, like there is simply too much chaos to come out of a battle with more health or ammo then one entered with.

After looking at the map in DB I doubt there was enough ammo for me to clear the final room, even if I wanted to. At this point I would probably suggest removing the firemace and it's ammo completely and replacing it with other ammo. You may also have to add ammo around the middle of the level, as well as in a few of the secrets.

Overall this map is much rougher than The Cupboards other entry, which makes sense since it was their first, and it is much larger. There are some really cool things about this level, but it could use a bit of work.

EDIT #2:

I forgot to mention that this level suffers from the same missing texture resource problem as The Cupboards other level, this is again due to using an outdated texture pack.

I haven't forgot about E1M9. Really quirky and innovative exploratory puzzle map with some great brain teasers. Very suited for a secret level, but could've also made for a very unique E1M8 if plotted differently, but it's still a great fit where it is. A wand start really makes the player vulnerable for the few hazards that can actually be killed.

Submitted new version of my map with secret exit, subject to approval.

E1M5: Grimoire Haeresis by SYS (v4)

I just want to say, while this is a lot of constructive critism, this level does have some very promising ideas, and ultimately I think it has the potential to be a good level.

First play, hard: I was killed after I trapped the minotaur in the dragon claw pit, and was on my way out. He took me down with him!

The first switch is actually pretty hard to see. Maybe light up that area, or even just that switch, just a bit.

Skeleton closet reveals after first switch have floors as low as the water; looks tacky, needs to be raised by 8 or 16 above the water.

-Texture misalignment on the stairs in the dragon claw pit.
-Texture misalignment on minotaur's house.

-HOM (hall of mirrors) on staircase in minoutaur's lair.
-HOM on staircase in Blue Key/Green Key arena.

Those two doors with blue runes on either side of them, near the SW arena; they both appear to be blue key locked but neither actually requires a blue key to enter. I suggest changing the runes to a color unused by keys at all like red, purple, grey, or white.

Quiver item in front of switch; pick a better spot so player can pick up ammo as needed.

I dislike the progression from the sword switch to the 'ledge' out of the water [tag 10]. When the switch is first pushed the nearest thing to check is the blue key pedestal, but it is left unchanged. At this point for the player finding what the switch did becomes a tedious switch hunt. The way to progress here is to finding the climbable 'ledge' into the minotaur's lair. The problem is that this ledge is on the opposite end of the level. What's worse, the player is given no hint or cue that the player will ever be able to reach the upper minotaur's lair from the water at the beginning. To top it off the 'ledge' is like the smallest possible bit lower than every other part of the wall, all of which is all unclimbable, making it completely unobvious how to progress. Figuring out how to proceed felt more frustrating than satisfying. I was actually upset when I discovered that the 'ledge' was the way forward because I had walked by it so many times.

This is my suggestion on how to fix this flow:
-Make the minotaur courtyard accessible right from the beginning by changing the rising 'ledge' into an obvious staircase.
-Make the minotaur's house locked by a yellow key door.
-Change the blue key to a yellow key.
-Make the wooden room switch ACTUALLY lower this new yellow key platform.
-Place a blue key inside the minotaur's house, on the top floor in the southern corner so it is VISIBLE from the start.

Second play, hard: destroyed by the minotaur beyond the green key door room pit!

Flipping the switch and seeing the green pillar lower makes me think that getting behind the throne is the way to progress. The player can get stuck behind the throne in this fountain area. Iron bars are not visible from the other side, behind the throne. (This would be a great spot for a secret)

I had the same switch hunt problem after the throne switch. I had to search all over and randomly found a second teleporter next to the first one. Why couldn't the throne room switch have just lowered the green key pedestal? Or if the teleport was more important, then it could have just been on the seat of the throne, like the throne was a teleport that takes the player to the top of the green key pedestal.

Third play, hard: Died in the lich battle beyond the green key door . . . with 6 purple potions in my inventory!

I am again going to suggest that the firemace be removed from the equation. See my play test notes from E1M4.

I'll give this one another try another night.