DOOM Twitter - Campaign averages around 13+hrs

As long as the game is absolutely solid and a blast to play, I could care less about the length. Just as long as it isn't shorter than 6 hours.

13 hours of campaign, sounds good to me, but i don't think it'll take that amount of hours to complete the game, unless playing on the highest difficulty possible, which may take more to complete it.
Other than that it should take 8 hours or less to complete the campaign for experienced players.

Slightly bothered by this news. Honestly brought back flashbacks of "last mins before New Order comes out". I'm now starting to think that Doom 4 will be a linear crap like it, eventhough I did draw a map of the demonstration UAC map which proved to be quite non-linear.

New Order was a big disappointment.

quakke said:

New Order was a big disappointment.

What makes you say that exactly? For me personally WTNO turned out way better than I was expecting it to be. Maybe I just had low expectations, heh.

I didn't watch anything related to Wolfenstein before it came out; I never got too far into any of the Wolfenstein games (didnt bother with Wolf3D after the first level, got to the giant open valley level in Return, got about halfway through the Wolf reboot) but I had a PS4 and really, REALLY needed a good FPS. I took a chance and was pleasantly surprised; it might still be my favorite PS4 game.
I've since played and beat Wolf3D in its entirety and finally appreciated what it was. Don't think I can slog through that valley level again in Returns; the reboot I will eventually replay and beat one of these days.

Marnetmar said:

What makes you say that exactly? For me personally WTNO turned out way better than I was expecting it to be. Maybe I just had low expectations, heh.

For me what's worse in TNO is the constant intrusion of unskippable and barely-interactive cinematics interrupting the action all the time, also, it's more linear than it should've been and has some boring story-focused levels.
When the game actually let me shoot stuff though I can be pretty fun.

RTCW still is the best in the series.

Marnetmar said:

What makes you say that exactly? For me personally WTNO turned out way better than I was expecting it to be. Maybe I just had low expectations, heh.

Ohh boy. :cracks knuckles: Let's see:


-- The pacing is completely broken DNF/HL2 style. The progression is jarring and inconsistent, there's no real momentum to the campaign. Just as it's starting to gain speed it hits the breaks because hey, it's time for an obligatory fetch quest or a stealth mission.

-- The game jumps from one place to another with no explainations and skips important plot points. It's like they've had twice as many levels planned out but ran out of time. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what has happened.

-- The tone is a complete trainwreck. One moment they're dead serious, next there's something ridiculous happening. The amount of dissonance there is astonishing. There were many points where I had no idea whether something was supposed to be gruesome or funny.

-- They've got cool characters that get almost zero screentime. Can you say more than one sentence about ANYONE in this game? No... But hey, you've got fifty diary entries about someone who is not even part of the main plot. And is dead. Because apparently it's better to have a whole life's story of someone completely irrelevant rather than develop one of the MAIN characters.

-- It defies logic on every possible level. And before somebody says "it's Wolfenstein, it doesn't have to make sense", NO. Fiction has to be consistent WITHIN ITS FICTIONAL UNIVERSE. So for example, I'm not bothered by a badass protagonist who single-handedly kills hundreds of Nazis. I am however bothered by the fact that the same character that survives bullets and explosions, bites and freaking plane crashes goes into a 14-years-long coma just because a tiny piece of shrapnel hits him in a head.

-- There are so many plotholes that I'm not sure if there's anything left but holes. I could go through every single level and point out dozens of examples of that. Dozens per level that is. Which is a shame because the plot itself is not bad. They've just completely screwed up its presentation with half-assed solutions.

-- The combat is fine. Too bad MG felt obligated to constantly interrupt and deprioritize it.

-- The stupid (and obligatory) perk system. Kill 5 enemies to increase your clip size. The hell? How exactly killing enemies mechanically upgrades your weapon? Ahh, who cares right? People want to see numbers rising!

-- Dual wielding - I'm pretty sure they've added it to hide the fact that they have like 3 guns in the entire game.

-- ...aaand many more.

Touchdown said:

-- The stupid (and obligatory) perk system. Kill 5 enemies to increase your clip size. The hell? How exactly killing enemies mechanically upgrades your weapon?

You know, like how the pause menu is rarely a canon part of the game's universe? Same thing applies for gameplay mechanics.

I think he was bothered by a mechanic that just seems too video game-y for its own good. I like the point about how the ridiculousness of the universe has to still make sense within that universe. With Doom '16 I hope that they keep the universe consistent. So far that seems to be the case, because I find myself not caring about the presence of double barrel shotguns or cartoonish looking monsters.

Touchdown said:

Ohh boy. :cracks knuckles: Let's see:

-- They've got cool characters that get almost zero screentime. Can you say more than one sentence about ANYONE in this game? No... But hey, you've got fifty diary entries about someone who is not even part of the main plot. And is dead. Because apparently it's better to have a whole life's story of someone completely irrelevant rather than develop one of the MAIN characters.

The diary was Anya's ;-)

Marnetmar said:

What makes you say that exactly? For me personally WTNO turned out way better than I was expecting it to be. Maybe I just had low expectations, heh.

Basically the game focused more on showing the player the story than letting really to play it and experience it. Aka the modern way of doing things.

LkMax said:

When the game actually let me shoot stuff though I can be pretty fun.

RTCW still is the best in the series.

This right here.

Much like Rage, that even if the gameplay was kinda subpar, the guns most definitely didn't feel lame and it actually did feel satisfying to use them. Modern fps mechanics though many times got in the way. Be it sprint that doesn't allow shooting, automated fence vaulting mechanism that can't even keep up with the player's pace or the useless kneehigh jumping height. There is so many cons in this game when it comes to gameplay.

RTCW is still gold. I'm astounded how much more interactive it forexample is than TNO. Same knightarmors on hallways in TNO were completely static while in RTCW fully interactable. Level design is also more complex than anything what TNO had to offer. On first map already it's possible Doom style to completely get to start location from midway of the map. That kinda good connecting level desing was completel missing in New Order, just complete linearity with gimmicky mini-openworld hub area things (eg. map after the coma map, the rainy base under the bridge).

Touchdown said:

Ohh boy. :cracks knuckles: Let's see:

Agree with pretty much everything you listed.

I don't know. I think every Id Software game should feel different from one another. Making Wolfenstein a more story-based shooter is a great way to make it different from Doom and Quake.

DooM_RO said:

I don't know. I think every Id Software game should feel different from one another. Making Wolfenstein a more story-based shooter is a great way to make it different from Doom and Quake.

I agree and certainly don't mind having the Wolfenstein series be more story-oriented as the universe lends itself well to having NPCs, but please cut back on lengthy cutscenes and drop the boring fetch quests.

Story elements should feel like a reward, but shouldn't be shoved down the player's throat if the player wants to just shoot things.

dsm said:

I agree and certainly don't mind having the Wolfenstein series be more story-oriented as the universe lends itself well to having NPCs, but please cut back on lengthy cutscenes and drop the boring fetch quests.

Story elements should feel like a reward, but shouldn't be shoved down the player's throat if the player wants to just shoot things.

Fully in agreement with dsm here. I enjoyed Wolfenstein TNO a lot. In fact its one of the few modern games I played through a couple of times. But lets not pretend it did not have its quirks. Thankfully the gun play was really quite good (still heavily reliant on cover though) and you can do the challenges after having finished the game.

quakke said:

Slightly bothered by this news. Honestly brought back flashbacks of "last mins before New Order comes out". I'm now starting to think that Doom 4 will be a linear crap like it, eventhough I did draw a map of the demonstration UAC map which proved to be quite non-linear.

New Order was a big disappointment.

Oh yeah. .It sucked. .I simply don't get people that say that this game was such a masterpiece. .GARBAGE is what it was. .Entered my Doom Beta promo code in PSN and sold that crap the day after. .

quakke said:

Slightly bothered by this news. Honestly brought back flashbacks of "last mins before New Order comes out". I'm now starting to think that Doom 4 will be a linear crap like it, eventhough I did draw a map of the demonstration UAC map which proved to be quite non-linear.

New Order was a big disappointment.

Jaxxoon R said:

You know, like how the pause menu is rarely a canon part of the game's universe? Same thing applies for gameplay mechanics.

GoatLord said:

I think he was bothered by a mechanic that just seems too video game-y for its own good. I like the point about how the ridiculousness of the universe has to still make sense within that universe. With Doom '16 I hope that they keep the universe consistent. So far that seems to be the case, because I find myself not caring about the presence of double barrel shotguns or cartoonish looking monsters.

Plasma Gun said:

The diary was Anya's ;-)

I made a reply in the original Wolf thread to avoid derailing this thread even further. Here you go.