Does DeePsea always do this?

I've had a shareware copy of DeePsea for a long time now. The main reason I haven't registered is that it's too complicated for me (WadAuthor is better). But I did try to edit one of my wads once, and when I tried to load it in WadAuthor later, I got a message that "it wasn't a valid wad file." Apparently DeePsea fixed the stupid wad so that only it could open the file. Does DeePsea always do this?

The reason: I have a Heretic wad which I want to have some pulsating lights in, but in WadAuthor, that option is not on the list... I know it's possible, though. I wanted to try DeePsea, but if it's just going to destroy all my work like last time, well... I won't bother.

I don't use deepsea either for the same reason: it's seems too complicated. But you could still try using deepsea by doing a copy of your wad. I have dozens of backups of my wads...

Do a nodesbuild on your edited level; then try again to load it into WadAuthor.

Deepsea can't prevent other editors using the file, if Deepsea can still open it try saving it under a new name (make sure the nodes are built as Mordeth states).

Its not a problem i've seen before, and I've been using Deepsea for years.

Here's something that may be helpful. I use both WadAuthor and DeePsea, and have found a "problem" with zdoom-hexen format wads (wads which contain scripts and behavior lumps) between the two editors. Using WadAuthor, you can edit, compile and save scripts into a wad, and the lumps will be named "scripts" and "behavior". Then, if you work on the wad in DeePsea and save it, the lump "scripts" will be renamed "script01". WadAuthor really does not like this; if you re-open that wad with WadAuthor and try to save it, WadAuthor will exit with an error message. The wad is not damaged but WadAuthor cannot complete the save. Once you rename that script01 lump back to scripts, all is well.

Biffy said:

and save scripts into a wad, and the lumps will be named "scripts" and "behavior". hen, if you work on the wad in DeePsea and save it, the lump "scripts" will be renamed "script01".

You can change the default to SCRIPTS in F5 options (if reading a file that has SCRIPTS). I didn't think SCRIPTS was a good idea since all the prior tools can see this as a duplicate entry. SCRIPT## gives other autotatic "name" separation advantages when one saves scripts to a file - another difference I felt offered more advantages. IOW, MAP02 is SCRIPT02, MAP03->SCRIPT03, etc. Ditto for ExMx, E1M1->SCRIP11

WA shouldn't care at all. Remember regular HEXEN levels don't have SCRIPTS at all. And in fact it doesn't care. Go ahead and try it and see for yourself. It's easy to verify. I just created a test case and verified in 1 minute. Now you can have SCRIPTS and SCRIPT01 at the same time (assuming one made a SCRIPT01 in DeePsea - but that has to be a deliberate step - don't think that even happened). IOW, WA didn't complain one bit - so it has to be something else Biff. In fact, if it complained, I'd point at WA (or some intermediate utility like deutex or wintex - see lutz original PWAD for what I mean), but there should be no problem at all.

The issue of the orginal poster could also be that the version is not current. He didn't say what version, but the current version is 11.66 soon to be 11.7 with huge level support. Don't forget, one never has to use the "complicated" parts of DeePsea - like linedrawing<g>. Using just the prefabs ends up being just like WA with all the other merging advantages too:)

EDIT: Ok, I just found out the problem. The error message from WA is way too general and very misleading in this case. What DeePsea does is LOCK the wad file so no other program can modify it. What WA should have said is that the file is in use by another program. IOW, DO NOT have more than one program working on a PWAD at the same time. That causes big trouble and is the main reason DeePsea locks files. So exit DeePsea and then open it with WA. Don't have both programs open the same level at the same time.

I dont find deepsea complicated at all but that's just me I guess. besides you can't beat having deep on the forums to answer questions like that!

Deep - nope, I did not just speculate on this, I've encountered it several times. Maybe, "behind the scenes", there is another reason for WA to crash while trying to save, but I carefully looked at the difference between a copy of the wad which WA saved OK and a subsequent copy which crashed WA. The only difference I could see was that 'scripts' was now 'script01'. I manually changed it back to 'scripts' with Wintex and immediately WA would save it again. This wad has quite a few entries, maybe there is some reason for the WA save crash which has to do with the rename of scripts along with the placement of other data, or the wad directory. Now, I am truly guessing. I'll try a further experiment later along the lines you've described.

To be clear, my comment had nothing to do with a file not being opened by WA or being locked, it opened fine and allowed me to edit, it's just the WA save which would crash. I wondered if anyone else had this WA problem.

No argument about the advantages of using the 'scriptxx' format.

netnomad312 said:

The reason: I have a Heretic wad which I want to have some pulsating lights in, but in WadAuthor, that option is not on the list... I know it's possible, though. I wanted to try DeePsea, but if it's just going to destroy all my work like last time, well... I won't bother.

To get oscillating lights into Heretic with WadAuthor:

Save your wad, change to the Doom.wcf or Doom2.wcf file, put the oscillating light feature on the sector(s), save it, return to the heretic.wcf file and run the map. There! The feature remains unless you edit the sector properties. (in which case you will have to go back and put the oscillating light feature in again) This also works with the light flickers randomly feature.

I built a whole Heretic episode using that trick and it works fine.

I'm back. Just found a fairly simple zdoom-hexen wad on this machine and checked into what Deep said. Yes, now I see the F5 selection regarding scriopt lump naming, nice.

This file originally had the lump "scripts". I let DeePsea rename it to script01 and saved. WA did not have any problem opening or saving this file. So.....the problem I have with that other larger file is not simply what it appeared, even though I was lucky enough to eliminate the WA crash by the lump rename.

Let's let this dog lie.

Hey Ultimate DooMer - did you ever put together that zdoom-heretic wcf file you talked about, or get a look at the one I emailed you over the holidays? I was hoping you might see where it could be improved, or could let me see a copy of yours.

Biffy said:

Deep - nope, I did not just speculate on this, I've encountered it several times.

It can't be the SCRIPTxx for the reasons I gave. To WA this is just another lump. Now, if you complicate the issue and tell me that the level has been messed with using Wintex then that's something totally different.

If you recall, when you loaded Lutz's level with all the extra space, did you notice all those other warning messages about where lumps are stored? I couldn't believe any program would be weird enough to store the level header NOT where it was supposed to be, plus scramble the logical order of data.

Technically since the header is -0- length, DOOM will play, but it will play havoc with older versions of DeePsea (don't remember when I found this out, but some time last year). What happened in that case is incorrect storing of level data if the offsets were -0- for the level headers.

Letting it "die" is not very productive. What amazes me is the number of screwups that exist, yet nobody points them out. If I point them out everyone gets all defensive - but there are giant screwups in common utilities (not to say I haven't made my own<g>)

So if there is a level that won't load using WA but is loadable by DeePsea, I'd like to see it. That's how I find out about these weird things done to levels:)

Just so we stay ontopic. The original post Biff is not the same as what you describe. He said

"it wasn't a valid wad file." That's the message you get when the file is locked.

You said "it's just the WA save which would crash". So that's quite diferent from the above. That means it loads (which means the levels is OK) but then on the save it screws up. That points directly at WA or an intermediate util or system problems. Latter not too unusual if you've been play testing - been there too many times, much less so in XP though:)

Welp, I was just trying to help, making note of another issue which I'd encountered, thinking someone else may have faced it. I think my description was clear enough, but perhaps it deserved another thread...if that's the problem, I'll do that next time.

I always viewed this problem as a WA issue, maybe system as you say, not DeePsea. If you want a copy of this wad, I'll send it. It's not an issue of "won't load", so I'm not sure you are interested. And, this wad has been touched by XWE and Wintex as well. Somehow I just assumed that saving in DeePsea or WA would "reorder" or reconstruct the wad data in correct format, if there was such an issue.

DeePsea does automatically reorder on a save. That's not true for all programs that mess with PWADs (hence the need for "cleaning" steps after a program like that messes around). Invalid header offsets used to cause a problem, since the level header determines the start of a level. You can see where that assumption got me in trouble - Level header followed by what is supposed to be level data, but of course it wasn't.

If you have this problem PWAD I would appreciate a copy. Could be something totally different - I'll let you know what I find out.

Ultimate DooMer said:

To get oscillating lights into Heretic with WadAuthor:

Save your wad, change to the Doom.wcf or Doom2.wcf file, put the oscillating light feature on the sector(s), save it, return to the heretic.wcf file and run the map. There! The feature remains unless you edit the sector properties. (in which case you will have to go back and put the oscillating light feature in again) This also works with the light flickers randomly feature.

I built a whole Heretic episode using that trick and it works fine.

Wow, I never thought of that. The only time I ever opened one wad in another configuration before is my "Lava Caverns" for Doom 2; I was hoping to do a Heretic version. I ended up losing all my door data, and all textures reverted to their default. It wasn't a picnic getting it back to normal. But that's a great idea. Thanks!

Why can't you just add what you want to the HERETIC.WCF file?

Um... how?

I wonder if you guys have incomplete heretic.wcf files. In my doom2.wcf file and in my heretic.wcf file, this same entry exists in

[Sectors.Types]
---
0x008 Light oscillates
---

I'm saying that I don't need to select doom or doom2 config to put oscillating lights in a heretic wad with WadAuthor.

netnomad312 said:

Um... how?

A .wcf file is simply a text file - easy to edit. Open the doom2.wcf file, and scroll down to the sector types at the bottom and find the line that says "0x008 Light oscillates". Copy this to clipboard, open the heretic.wcf file and paste in the line in the correct place. You will then see it in WA. (if only I'd known about this when I did my heretic wad...)

(and while you're there, open your doom2.wcf file, find the 'yellow card' and 'yellow skull' entries, and replace 'yellow' with 'green' so your green keys will appear in WA instead of the yellow ones)

Custom .wcf files are easy to create, I use them all the time now. (with new monsters, items, scenery etc.)

Biffy: I tried your ZDoom Heretic .wcf file with Slayer's dfort.wad and many of the categories are not there - I think he used ZETH or something like that. I'll have to play around with it and see what I can come up with.

Ultimate DooMer said:

Biffy: I tried your ZDoom Heretic .wcf file with Slayer's dfort.wad and many of the categories are not there - I think he used ZETH or something like that. I'll have to play around with it and see what I can come up with.

Thanks....either that or give me a tip about what categories are missing and I'll look into it.

deep said:

If you have this problem PWAD I would appreciate a copy. Could be something totally different - I'll let you know what I find out.

Deep - thanks for checking it. As you found that there was no WadAuthor problem on your system, I decided to check it on this other computer. There is no problem here either with WA, saving the wad I sent you. This is a Win2K Pro OS, the problem occured with Win98. So....I need to do some fc investigation, or...who knows.