n00b questions

I might give this demo thing a go, so here are some n00b questions (concerning both this forum and Opulent's demo archive):

1. What wads (I, P or both) are accepted?

2. Do you always run from a pistol start unless you're recording a whole mapset in one go?

3. What types of demo are allowed? Is it just the set categories like max, speed, tyson etc. or are general demos (ie. ones that are just for fun rather than serious record attempts etc.) accepted too?

4. What ports are generally the best to use? (ZDoom works but I know that other ports are more popular)

5. Is it best to record on popular wads (MM, HR etc.) or on wads that have little or no recordings done on them?

6. Can I do a run on my own wads (which I don't think have ever been recorded on) and still submit them?

(btw I'm not a complete n00b, as I know you can't use savegames or cheats and I did record a couple of iwad demos for Nanami's old demo site ages ago)

1. Both

2. If you like, pistol starts are a standard for demo-recording, and yes in movies you can start with whatever you had in the previous level. It's playing an episode or an entire wad in one go, so what you do in the previous level determines your condition in later levels, so more planning is required.

3. Fun demos are acceptable, I've done a trick demo for Hexen a while back. If it seems interesting, fire away.

4. I prefer PrBoom for doom recording since the demos are compatible with the original game exe's by using the -complevel 1 command line, but zdoom is also a fine choice (works for Heretic). I've been using it recently to record all 5 Heretic episodes (the last one is on the way).

5. Whichever you prefer. While some may appreciate different wads, you can even ask what people want to see, but the demo nuts will watch anything you make because we show interest in how other people play the games.

6. No restrictions, feel free to play your own wads if you like them. :)

Vile covered it; but some additional thoughts:
Normal category recordings (max, speed, tricks, etc...) are recommended since they give your demo purpose.
Recording on previously recorded maps is always interesting since you have demos to build upon... however, there is more worth to demos for maps no one has seen (unless you are improving the previous recordings).
Some maps are always worth seeing demos for (HR, Scythe, etc...).
For some direction, Grazza and others have suggested maps to be recorded, and personally, I recommend organizing a demoset that you are interested in on this board. Choose Kesler's Zdoom-only maps for example, and we all can chip in on recording them.
in short, probably anything worth your time to record or re-watch yourself, will have some value to us as well. Happy recording. :)
Edit: Fragport or LTSD would be great choices IMO for a demoset from the players on this board since they are quality maps.

Yeah it would certainly be interesting to see an LTSD demo, given it has a storyline and stuff (it would be just like a sci-fi film or something) but it would probably be better to record it as a mapset rather than single maps (the maps should be doable from scratch, but it would probably feel better as a mapset). Fragport can be done on single maps despite the story and the way they link together etc. (maybe I'll have a go on it myself) but some will be better than others. And again, a full mapset demo would be great, given the pace and action content of the wad.

In the meantime, here's the map07 and map16 demos I did ages ago. (Legacy 1.40)

(edit: damn, why doesn't it show my attachment? It's uploaded but I can't see it!)
Opulent edit: It doesn't show until a mod accepts the attachment. Should be visible now. :-)

tud0716.zip

I'm happy as long as it plays back OK; I'm even happier if it is entertaining.

The main drawback with zdoom is that it changes so often, and so people need to have a copy of the right executable too - in a few weeks (or days, if you are unlucky), in order to watch your demo, people will need to dig out an old cab file (which may no longer be available in /lars). If zdoom's your preferred port, then that shouldn't put you off, but it is a point worth considering. And it certainly shouldn't put you off recording for zdoom-specific maps, of course.

Personally, I prefer to record on maps where there are no previous demos, unless I feel I can do something special. For instance, on 1squares.wad, I was able to bring the Max time down by over 8 minutes, so I felt it was worth releasing. :)

Funny, I was thinking of Fragport as a possible future wad for a Demos Forum Demoset. I wasn't sure how we'd handle map32 though - I don't think it is such a difficult map, but it would be very frustating to record without any saves. Still, one map shouldn't rule out the whole megawad.

BTW, other ideas that crossed my mind for such a wad were world.wad, killzone 1+2 (only 14 maps in total, but big and challenging), Herian2 (needs zdoom), the Hell2Pay demo (15 maps), DSV4 (needs Legacy or Eternity) or njdoom2 (would need to decide which version). Or many many others.

Opulent edit: It doesn't show until a mod accepts the attachment. Should be visible now. :-)

Heh, we must have approved that one pretty much simultaneously, because I got the "Validated attachment: 1 ... All attachments moderated sucessfully!" message, rather than "Nothing to do!".

The Ultimate DooMer said:

In the meantime, here's the map07 and map16 demos I did ages ago. (Legacy 1.40)

Please note that we ask that a textfile is included in the zip, providing basic information about the demo (who recorded it, which wad, which exe; category and time are useful too). This has quite a few obvious benefits.

Grazza said:

Please note that we ask that a textfile is included in the zip, providing basic information about the demo (who recorded it, which wad, which exe; category and time are useful too). This has quite a few obvious benefits.

Is there a template around anywhere?

Grazza said:

Funny, I was thinking of Fragport as a possible future wad for a Demos Forum Demoset. I wasn't sure how we'd handle map32 though - I don't think it is such a difficult map, but it would be very frustating to record without any saves. Still, one map shouldn't rule out the whole megawad.

It shouldn't be too much of a problem, as the only risk in map 32 is getting locked in (although the skill games could be a pest) but any big map without saves is the same really. (I could do that one if you like, as I know the games best)

In any case, I'm sure you're all great players...

Opulent said: I recommend organizing a demoset that you are interested in on this board. Choose Kesler's Zdoom-only maps for example, and we all can chip in on recording them.

Do they work in ZDooM 1.22? ;-D

The Ultimate DooMer said:
Is there a template around anywhere?

You can use the DooM SDA template, found at ->
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dsda.txt

And then make any changes to it you see fit (at least that's what I did, heh).

In any case, I'm sure you're all great players...

HA! Good one! Have you seen any of my demos? ;-P

Of course the other people recording here are above average skill, but don't let that discourage you.

The most important thing IMHO is love for the game (and for recording in general). I will watch any demo I find interesting, the quality of play is of lesser importance IMHO. After all, this isn't COMPET-N. I would love to see you record something.. anything! :-)

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Is there a template around anywhere?

You could copy and adapt the text-file from one of the other demos posted here. Otherwise, in item 7 on this page, Opulent provides a couple of possibilities.

I don't recall where my own template originated from. Maybe compet-n, or someone else's modified version of it. BTW, there's no real need to provide the percentage kills, items and secrets; the category shows what was required (and that it was achieved). I just put them in there for completeness.

But really, it is sufficient just to give the basic information I mentioned:

Ultimate DooMer
Doom2 map7
Legacy 1.40
UV Max (with on-screen messages)
Time: x:xx

Some time ago I've recorded several demos for different Fragport's releases. Seems for release dated 11-01-2002 & for the first release of this year. Several nonoptimized maxkills and three av-jump speedruns maps 06, 08 and 29. But now they would be out of sync with your last release. I've not checked though. New re-releases killed recorder's work.

I might also add that if someone is really set on recording with zdoom the best choices may be to use the older versions like 1.17 or 1.22, they are pretty stable and most everyone has them. Only major problem is if the newer map requires the newer cabs.

2.0.47 might be the best of the newer versions, as it's still in the lars folder. (it's also the last version that's stable on my machine)

We've been over this point several times... I completely agree with Searcher; the last non-BETA is zdoom1.22 and the last dos version is 1.17c.
Those should be used for recording unless your map(or game in the case of Heretic) requires it.
Randy will release a released build soon enough.
of course, there are no restrictions on what port/version you use on this board, but fast-forward 3 years; people won't want to have to download 2047, 2041, 2052, 2050, etc.. just to watch our forum demos.
let me re-iterate: record with anything you wish! as long as it can playback for you, we can also enjoy it.

The Ultimate DooMer said:

2.0.47 might be the best of the newer versions, as it's still in the lars folder. (it's also the last version that's stable on my machine)

Cab 47 is very stable on my machine also. I actually downloaded cab 50 then deleted it so I could go back to 47.

BTW your legacy demo of ltsd de-syncs, it keeps trying to go to e1m1 or e1m5. I only use legacy 1.40a so should be no problem there but maybe it is looking for a file I have in my doom2 folder and not in my doom folder. Does it playback ok on your machine?

Here is my command line from within my Doom folder.

legacy -file 007ltsd.wad -playdemo tud07

This should work but somehow does not. your demo is not looking for a doom2 file is it?

The demos Ultimate DooMer attached were for the basic doom2.wad (i.e. "Dead Simple" and "Suburbs").

Anyway, thank you for illustrating my point about text-files. ;)

Grazza said:

Funny, I was thinking of Fragport as a possible future wad for a Demos Forum Demoset. I wasn't sure how we'd handle map32 though - I don't think it is such a difficult map, but it would be very frustating to record without any saves. Still, one map shouldn't rule out the whole megawad.

If we do use it for a forum demoset, what port will we use? (I've had a couple of map 32 goes on Legacy so far, those narrow ledge games are a pain when playing like this...)

Searcher said:
BTW your legacy demo of ltsd

I think this is definitely in order...

http://www.geocities.com/theultimatedoomer/you_fail_it.html

The Ultimate DooMer said:

If we do use it for a forum demoset, what port will we use? (I've had a couple of map 32 goes on Legacy so far, those narrow ledge games are a pain when playing like this...)

For Marswar we just used whatever port (or lack of one) each of us was happy with. It led to a slightly odd-looking batch-file to play the demos, but it worked. Obviously it would make sense to identify in advance if there are any maps that don't work at all properly in certain ports.

Regarding Fragport map32: it's not really the same as any large map, since most maps don't have quite as many instant death traps.

Grazza said:

BTW, other ideas that crossed my mind for such a wad were ... the Hell2Pay demo (15 maps)

I've recorded a demo on one of these maps to try to drum up some interest. Hell2Pay map10 UV Max, 1:50. I know, the naming convention looks a bit odd, but H2nn-xxx (HR2) and HPnn-xxx (HR.wad pacifist) are already taken.

[edit]Replaced with a 1:40. I'm not sure I'll be able to improve it too much beyond this.[/edit]

hy10-140.zip

Couldn't resist it; did another one. Hell2Pay map11 UV Max, 5:59. Rough but fun.

hy11-559.zip

Grazza,

I enjoyed your hell2pay demos. Good action.

Personally, I find it difficult to make the mental adjustment to the modified monsters (I'm pretty much old-school) but that's not to say it wouldn't make a good demoset. :)

If that is a big enough problem to put you off recording on this wad, then you could play with the normal sprites instead. I've just tested this (in a way that didn't modify hell2pay.wad), and the demos both play back OK.

I'm sure there are neater ways to accomplish this, but I did it by taking an empty wad (well, one without any maps), running "deusf -app" over it, and adding the resulting wad to the command line after "hell2pay.wad". Presumably with a little bit more know-how you could create a wad containing only the sprites you want to replace.

Grazza said:

If that is a big enough problem to put you off recording on this wad, then you could play with the normal sprites instead. I've just tested this (in a way that didn't modify hell2pay.wad), and the demos both play back OK.

I'm sure there are neater ways to accomplish this, but I did it by taking an empty wad (well, one without any maps), running "deusf -app" over it, and adding the resulting wad to the command line after "hell2pay.wad". Presumably with a little bit more know-how you could create a wad containing only the sprites you want to replace.

I've really never worked with sprites but I loaded htp-ltd.wad into Wintex and deleted all the sprites and saved the wad. I then put this wad into my legacy folder. Next, I played and recorded part of map 3. All the monsters sprites were from the original game so that worked fine.

I then reloaded the zip version of htp-ltd into my legacy folder and replayed the lmp which worked well and the viewer sees me playing the modified sprites.

In all of this I didn't use deusf or their install.exe, just the htp-ltd.wad so I"m not sure if this would work with however your playing it.

If all INSTALL.EXE does is basically...

deusf -app HTP-LTD.WAD
ren HTP-LTD.WAD hell2pay.wad

...then that solution ought to work with most ports. Given that my demos (recorded with hell2pay.wad) play back OK with HTP-LTD.WAD in prboom, that does appear to be the case.

Anyway, as long as demos play back OK using hell2pay.wad, I see no problem. Personally, I'm always very nervous about making any changes to a wad that I'm going to record on, which is why I suggested using an unaltered wad plus an additional (and 100% harmless) wad.

Grazza said:

Anyway, as long as demos play back OK using hell2pay.wad, I see no problem. Personally, I'm always very nervous about making any changes to a wad that I'm going to record on, which is why I suggested using an unaltered wad plus an additional (and 100% harmless) wad.

I agree and have switched to an additional harmless wad. Perhaps, after I get some rest, I'll try a demo.

Rich said:

I agree and have switched to an additional harmless wad. Perhaps, after I get some rest, I'll try a demo.

I'll probably give map 9 a try.

Good choice - interesting map IMO.