Extremal Doom Demo Pack

Yes, the reason was the staircrushing trick, I started recording with -complevel 0 and got one try where the cyber was in good position supposed to be crushed, but it didn't happen, the raising stair simply stucked. so I changed to -complevel 5 hoping that I could get the trick with boom compatibility only. But it didn't happen anymore. It needs a big piece of luck, and getting max/tyson run with this trick is a mad task (I already thought about it).

Well, as I say, if you use the current version with Doom.exe compatibility, the cyber is more likely to get crushed if it is in position. This is also perhaps what the author intended, as he would only have had Doom.exe to test it with when he made the wad.

Grazza said:
Well, as I say, if you use the current version with Doom.exe compatibility, the cyber is more likely to get crushed if it is in position.

Indeed, plus, why would anyone want to use an older, buggier, unsupported version that ruins demos and leads one to try odd compat levels for a level?

Boom made some changes in the way stairbuilding can crush monsters. An incompatibility has only recently been fixed (mostly*) in prboom-plus, in version 2.4.6.1

Would that fix be in PrBoom v2.4.7?

myk said:

Would that fix be in PrBoom v2.4.7?

No. The behaviour of stairs is still unpredictable with PrBoom(+)'s memory manager. Full emulation takes a long time and I only forced that to the most probable behaviour. Chocolate-Doom should always work correctly in such cases IMO, because it did not touch the memory manager and the sizes of all internal data.

P.S. This Xit-Vono's lame demo desync with prboom(+), but does not with chocolate.

P.P.S. heh, looks like Xit-Vono's demo desync for other reasons

Kristian Ronge said:
I did E1M2 UV speed in 1:29. Just loaded it up, and did it on the third attempt. Not super speedy, but not too shabby, either.

I improved E1M2 UV speed to 1:20. Okay time now, I think. :-)

Just for the tables:
E3M6 - normal exit speed - 3:06
E3M6 - secret exit speed - 3:02
Average demos on annoying map, sent to Opulent.

Gusta:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x3t8-557.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x3t6s302.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x3t6-306.zip

Last one: E3M2 UV speed in 1:08.

Now that the table is filled :-) (thanks, guys!) I think it's reasonable to wait for a little while to assemble a demo pack, so that if someone finds inspiration to improve a run, they can do so.

Kristian Ronge said:

Now that the table is filled :-) (thanks, guys!) I think it's reasonable to wait for a little while to assemble a demo pack, so that if someone finds inspiration to improve a run, they can do so.

Sounds like a good plan. What, have we got full Max and Speed tables, and misc others?

It would also be nice to include a few egg demos, so if anyone has anything weird, "Ronge-style", or just somehow amusing, feel free to draw attention to it, or upload it if it is sitting on your hard-disk.

As a date for releasing this by, maybe Christmas or New Year?

To help with assembling the pack and seeing what might be improved and if anything is missing, I've put all the stuff I've got into one large zip:

extr-all.zip

This is everything that was on my hard-disk related to these demos, with the file-names standardized to some degree.

Grazza said:
It would also be nice to include a few egg demos,

Heh, hopefully not as obscure as the KS ones... still haven't seen those, actually (not everyone has WinZip installed).

As a date for releasing this by, maybe Christmas or New Year?

But there is a much more important date in about a week!

myk said:

Heh, hopefully not as obscure as the KS ones... still haven't seen those, actually (not everyone has WinZip installed).

I thought an old DOS-user like you would have no trouble extracting it. pkunzip + uudecode is quite adequate:

pkunzip -@listfile ks-lmps.zip > ks-eggs.uue
uudecode ks-eggs.uue
pkunzip ks-eggs.zip

OK, perhaps a bit too obscure, but I don't think they were any harder to find than the mm2 supersecret maps.

But there is a much more important date in about a week!

Yes, but that would mean assembling the pack in too much of a rush. A week or so for people to improve or add stuff; a while for someone (Kristian? me?) to create tables, clarifying who needs to submit what in the way of text; a week or so for people to provide text comments, and then a while for someone to assemble the final pack and check it over.

Actually, I do have something in mind as a Doomsday gift to the demo-watching community though...

Was looking at my old demos to see if there's any improvements I could make on them. 1 I knew I needed to improve, the other one was just me wondering if it was improvable.

The demos are...

E1M9 UV-Max in 3:50 (Previous record: 4:19). This was the one that badly needed a new maxdemo, as the 4:19 was, quite honestly, pure ugliness. I had to waste a bit of time at the end killing a stray imp that somehow wandered down the 1st elevator I take in the level. Low health in spots too. Biggest improvement goes to the final room I clear out of monsters/items/secrets. I managed a good route in clearing out everything in proper fashion unlike my 4:19 run. That was just so badly fudged up that it's funny.

E2M8 UV-Max in 3:25. This one was just a simple "I'll just try for the hell of it to improve the time". Took maybe 5 attempts to get this. Everything went quite well...til I off the barons in the RK room. I act stupid after teleporting once those barons are gone. Thought the Soulsphere that's there was still around. Oops. Everything else went so well though.

Sending to Ops now.

Grazza said:
Yes, but that would mean assembling the pack in too much of a rush. A week or so for people to improve or add stuff; a while for someone (Kristian? me?) to create tables, clarifying who needs to submit what in the way of text; a week or so for people to provide text comments, and then a while for someone to assemble the final pack and check it over.

I agree; this has already been worked on since February. Another few weeks won't hurt. I have a few improvements to do (E1M3/E1M3s, for example, I'm just hoping I get the time to do it). BTW, the tables for UV speed and UV max can be found in the first post of the thread -- I've gone through them several times now, so they should be accurate. I don't really remember, but I don't think there are any "quickest pacifist" that aren't also "quickest speed", so a separate table for pacifist is pretty pointless (an asterisk or something should suffice).

Actually, I do have something in mind as a Doomsday gift to the demo-watching community though...

Ooh! Do tell what it is! :-)

Kristian Ronge said:

Ooh! Do tell what it is! :-)

Aw, it was meant to be a surprise. OK OK, it's a big set of patterns for the "autoloading of wads according to the lmp file-name" that make it possible to play back a large majority of the demos at compet-n, DSDA (and other sites too, and most of the major demo packs) by just clicking on the lmp (from any location, local or online, and from inside a zip).

Essentially, the idea is that you can just browse around through a library of lmps and play back demos at will with minimal fuss. It "knows" which Final Doom demos used plutonia/tnt as a pwad rather than an iwad, and which TNT demos used the map31 patch, and also has a way to deal with some of the more significant clashes in naming conventions. (Obviously it can't cope with totally ad hoc naming, and I haven't catered for wads with very few demos.)

There are 75 patterns at present (edit: make that 76, as I have just added an extra line so that your ThisSUXX demos are recognized, rather than being clobbered by the 10sectors pattern :) ).

Grazza:
what a cool idea.... doubt I'd ever use it, but I think plenty of people would dig that.

Anima Zero:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/e2t8-325.zip
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/e1t9-350.zip

Improved my E2M8 UV-Max to 2:58. Now I'm actually done with this level (Finally!).

Sending to Ops now.

Anima:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/e2t8-258.zip

Nice new runs there, Brian! :-)

I did three new runs:
E2M2 UV max in 3:54. New, much faster route, but the demo sucks.
E2M9 UV max in 2:35. Just a small improvement.
E3M5 UV speed in 0:53. Sloppy, but with a faster ending than the previous one.

I'll try to find time to work on E1M3 and E1M3s, and then I think I'm done...

Liked your E2M9 run Kristian, so I did a run for this level myself, except this was a UV -fast run. Time for it is 2:24. Some ugly parts, but this was tough to get a good run on. Should be 5-10 seconds faster I'd reckon.

Sending to Ops now.

Anima:
http://www.doomworld.com/sda/dwdemo/x2t9f224.zip

That was some mighty impressive infighting you got going there! :-) Really fun to watch. Isn't it a lovely map?

Yes it is! :-)
btw. Kristian, sorry for my words about E2M2, perhaps I should write better: "this was one of my least favourite maps for max play" or simply "I didn't like to play this map on max". I already recorded a tyson for this map and I have to say that it was much more fun than max so i started to like that map in that way at least :-)

No, no, don't apologize, please. :-)
From your explanation, it's clear that I just misunderstood you. I see what you mean now, and you're right. It's not very fun for max running, and there's lots of stuff that can go wrong.

I did E1M3 UV speed in 0:49.
Just gotta find time to record E1M3s again now.

I don't know what possessed me to try this one, but it worked out with surprisingly little grief:- Grazza's route on E1M7 but with all three glides done in 0:36 (x1t7-036.zip)

The third glide that I thought was so hard now seems routine. I don't know why that is as I don't seem to be doing anything differently.

First exit only, feel free to try for something under 0:30 ;-)

I did E1M3 UV speed secret exit in 1:10.
That about does it for me, I guess. :-)

EDIT: Okay, one more. E1M1 NM speed in 1:07.

A last one from me:- E1M8 Speed in 0:43 (x1t8-043.zip). It varies from the max route with a new trick that allows you to play the first room pacifist.

Well, sheesh, you just had to make that speedrun fun to play (instead of incredibly frustrating), didn't you? ;-)

I improved E1M8 UV speed to 0:40. Lovely glide, easy to do, and the map is excellent. :-) Thanks a million, cack_h!

I recorded E2M1 pacifist in 1:04, truly hard one :-)))

Great demo, that. :-)
Having tried and failed, I know just how hard it is.

Anyway, I'm volunteering to assemble the pack, and I was thinking of a release date of December 31st. How does that sound to everyone?