PL2: Mordeth Award contender finally hits the streets

I'm figuring out how best to stay alive on Map05.

Brandon D. Lade said:

Not that I mind, but how did my previous two posts get combined?

Doomworld's participating in the "Internet Cleanup Day" pilot program - nothing to worry about.

Im not sure how this passed me up, but this is no doubt awesome.

Made an initial wiki page

Here (in the Mailbag portion) is an ancient news post about Plutonia 2, apparently the first news submission about it, at least to Doomworld.

Wooh! Can hardly wait to get back home from my christmas holiday and start playing! :D

MikeRS said:

Made an initial wiki page

That screenshot isn't of Map27. It's of Map12.

I'm nowhere near done, but using what I've already played as a base and also by checking the later levels with idclev, all I can say is this is awesome. Same comments I made in my /idgmaes review will appear here - I would be "really shocked" if it doesn't get a cacoward. And, at long last, some 13 years or so after its release, I can finally recommend buying Final Doom, and I am finally glad that I bought it myself many years ago. If this had been the original Plutonia, I cast no doubt that Final Doom would have received high recommendations in reviews all over the web. Next step - make a TNT: Evilution 2. Then we'd all have the Final Doom we hoped for in the first place.

EDIT: Thanks for removing the extra post from above.

EDIT 2: Thanks for removing the extra quote below. Sorry for all the inconveniences. Hopefully I will FINALLY stop clicking the wrong button so much.

Hello, and welcome to today's edition of "Xerox Gets Critical!"

<Xerox> Plutonia 2 isn't turning out to be quite as magical as I thought.
<Xerox> I mean, the maps aren't bad, but it's nothing we haven't seen before.
<Xerox> This one's all dull and square, too. :(
<Xerox> [map06]
<Masterofdeath> That's what I hate about stuff with long development times, heh.
<Xerox> I do admit, Map05 was a good one though. Only stand-out map I've encountered so far.
<Xerox> The maps all play fine, don't get me wrong. The wad's very solid, gameplay wise, but why do I get the feeling I'm repeating the same map?
<Xerox> I'm really tired of seeing the same green-vine texture over and over again.
<Masterofdeath> I like that texture a lot, but come on take a break.
<Xerox> Too much..
<Masterofdeath> icky
<Xerox> Most of the maps so far look like Congo remixes.
<Xerox> Only so long you can listen to the same lyrics and not get bored. Maps, ditto.
<Xerox> I'm hoping it'll get better though. With the more modern maps and such.
<Masterofdeath> Look on the bright side, at least. They could be all Map11 style.
<Xerox> Oh bugger. Don't remind me. **
<Xerox> Surely the new one has to be better...
<Xerox> ...right?

Stay tuned for the next installment as our hero plows through the ever-fated release hoping for better and brighter! Will he ever find his mojo?

<Xerox> Random cyberdemon death WTF :o

I just finished this today. I was sort of let down by how easy Map30 was. But other than that, I really enjoyed the entirety of the wad. The music was very well done, though I thought a few tracks didn't seem to match up to the maps very well. But overall, I though it was a superb set of maps and I had a blast playing through them :D

I'm curious, is there any story behind the name of MAP33: Chocolate?

MikeRS said:

Made an initial wiki page

It's great, really! I can't wait to see all the maps' pages completed :)

MikeRS said:

I'm curious, is there any story behind the name of MAP33: Chocolate?

Yes, it's as hidden in the WAD as the map. Good luck finding it. :D

I'm still enjoying it, but it's mainly Gusta's maps that really distinguish themselves from the norm. There are different kinds of difficulty, and the difficulty of carving out a slice of safety in his hectic, organically-constructed maps seems closest to original Plutonia style. I haven't seen any bad maps, but some are much less special.

Creaphis said:

I'm still enjoying it, but it's mainly Gusta's maps that really distinguish themselves from the norm. There are different kinds of difficulty, and the difficulty of carving out a slice of safety in his hectic, organically-constructed maps seems closest to original Plutonia style. I haven't seen any bad maps, but some are much less special.

I'll agree with this point, but Gusta's maps also tend to be needlessly hard to navigate, which is a problem I had a lot while playing co-op with my brother. I think we actually stopped around Map06 because we were tired of not being able to find keys in easy-to-miss alcoves.

Gusta's maps are definitely the best in here but I have to agree with WildWeasel. With most levels so far I didn't have any problems though.

But I have to admit that MAP17 was probably a bit too much - by far the most non-linear in the whole bunch so far and the fact that you had to find 3 yellow switches which were placed randomly around the map didn't make it easier. It was the first map where I had to take out a map editor to see how things work.

This one felt less like Plutonia and more like Eternal Doom.

I thought it felt a lot like pl23.

MAP23? I honestly can't find any similarities between these maps.

I was more reminded of something like ED's MAP11 and MAP19 which were also large, wide open maps without any linearity whatsoever - and which also took quite long to finish.

<Xerox> Okay I finally continued playing the wad again
<Xerox> Its getting better now that cursed map06 is over.
<Xerox> Though I swear I've seen Map07's layout before.
<Xerox> like a billion times already
<Xerox> Well the last few maps have been pretty neat
<Xerox> And Map11 was brilliant and awesome though the ending was hair-tearingly ridiculous.
<Xerox> Fighting blind and on fire sucks
<Xerox> Still hasn't gotten hard yet except for Map11's end.
<Xerox> But whatever


<Xerox> Why do I get the feeling I'm talking to myself?
<Xerox> oh wait


[EDIT]

<Xerox> "Hard Facility" is the best map name ever.

Xaser said:

<Xerox> And Map11 was brilliant and awesome though the ending was hair-tearingly ridiculous.

Setting up an AV jump back to the outside of the arena ftw. (took a few goes to get it right but more stylish than a rocket jump :p)

Yeah, the new Map11 puts the old Plutonia Map11 to shame... bigger and better maze, and a nice little tribute to M.C. Escher in one area. I liked most of what I saw, granted I'm currently on Map12 on my UV run, I looked through the rest of the wad in noclip for the sake of getting a review in to /newstuff (you get two days to review wads, and since I'm taking bits and pieces of it at a time, I probably won't finish beating it on UV by then) and I liked what I saw. You can probably expect my good review to appear whenever the next /newstuff comes out.

Hehe, yeah, the Escher scene made me go "wow" as well. Great one, that.

Anyhow, I'm at map18 now. "Go 4 It" was freakishly awesome, no doubt. Insane, but beatable. I suspect that even only a year ago, I'd have gotten my arse handed to me by that one and I would've quit in disgust.

Also, Gusta is a mapping machine. May have well painted his name right on the intermission screen. ;P


<Xerox> Hey, what the funk? What happened to our awesome IRC format complaininating? Come on, we really had something going there! I was having fun tearing the wad apart, yaknow.


Hey, put a sock in it. Everyone got tired of it, alright? Just forget it.


<Xerox> Damnit, I'm tired of you always taking the spotlight. Why don't I ever get to say anything?


Uh... you do realize that since you and I are the same person, you're really arguing with yourself, right?


<Xerox> oh


Glad we got that cleared up. Now go away.


<Xerox> okay..


<Xerox> Bitch.

This wad serves as an interesting way to compare my Dooming ability (ie. penis) with the norm. I'm pistol starting each level on skill 4, and it hasn't gotten hard enough to damage the fun (though I'm having to save and load a bit more now) and I haven't gotten stuck in even the Gustiest of Gusta's very Gusty maps. I'm at map 29 now. Seems like some of you are having more trouble.

Edit: Also, this map 32 actually seems more tame than the original.

@ the Ultimate Doomer:
I sent you an e-mail, please read it :-)

Graf Zahl said:

But I have to admit that MAP17 was probably a bit too much - by far the most non-linear in the whole bunch so far and the fact that you had to find 3 yellow switches which were placed randomly around the map didn't make it easier. It was the first map where I had to take out a map editor to see how things work.

You don't actually need to find all three yellow switches in 17 - I found only two and I'm not sure if those were necessary either. You can just get around those bars by the platform which gets raised from the room which was locked with red key.

As for the whole wad itself, it's good but like some people have said already it's also pretty repetitive. There aren't many maps that actually stand out from the bunch, neither for being much better or much worse than the rest. As a matter of fact, I'm currently in 21 (+secret maps) and the only ones that I can remember at all are 5, 7, 11 and 17, and 7 and 11 are kind a gimmick maps so they don't count either. Although 11 was good, even if it had a little few too many "filler" archies (Monsters that don't really give an interesting fight and are thrown in there just because; in a map like this less pointless monsters would have given more tension...).

Okay...

I am mostly through the sixth level, and I can tell you that I have had my ass handed to me on a bloody obsidian platter. With skulls drawn on it.

I just wonder what the later levels are going to be like...

I haven't played a WAD this hard and awesome since Alien Vendetta.

I was smart enough to do the first playthrough on 'easy'. The other skill levels may be more appropriate when I know the maps better. :D

Maybe I skip UV though - if someone already mentions Alien Vendetta it may not appeal to me...

AAAhhhhh.... Alien Vendetta... What a mapset.

But on topic, I have pretty much enjoyed Plutonia 2. A good solid mapset, very enjoyable dooming to be had, lots of intense moments, I tend to remember battles much better than I remember entire levels. Though I did notice that when they were making Plutonia2, they must have made it a law that EVERY level had to have at least 47 Revenants on it. The mapset is crawling with revenants. Good thing I love killing revenants.

Possibly my favorite map so far is K!ra's map 15. Reminded me a lot of e4m2. Map 17 is great too. I can't distinguish one map from the next, I played through them all too quickly I think. The archie level stood out, tho as Jodwin said, it did seem to have a few filler archies.

There is only one big dislike I have so far, and that is the overuse (imo) of the 'block monster' tag. I mean, the number of times I would open a door, trigger a pile of monsters, and then retreat out the door, expecting then to relentlessly chase me, only to turn around and watch as they strolled uselessly back and forth against this invisible line. Block monster makes PE's and lost souls useless, and it reduced the intensity of many of too many of the fights. I would have rather seen a wider use of the "block sound" tag, to keep the monsters in their respective areas, until you trigger them, then let them chase you to hell and back. Don't stop monsters coming after you through doorways that they can clearly fit through. So often, I would start to get really 'into' the game, only to come crashing out of it when I saw monsters stuck like this.

Though I don't want to focus on the negatives. I have really enjoyed playing through it all the same. Some wonderful maps in there, definitely deserving of a big fat cacoward.

And on that note, I'm off to play some more. Still only up to map 20. 10 more levels of meaty goodness still before me.

Graf Zahl said:

I was smart enough to do the first playthrough on 'easy'. The other skill levels may be more appropriate when I know the maps better. :D

Maybe I skip UV though - if someone already mentions Alien Vendetta it may not appeal to me...

IMO Plutonia 2 is between Plutonia and AV in term of difficulty, so don't worry ;)

Kyka said:

Possibly my favorite map so far is K!ra's map 15.

Thanks, it's always a pleasure to see one of his maps liked by someone else :)

Kyka said:

There is only one big dislike I have so far, and that is the overuse (imo) of the 'block monster' tag.

I was just going to make an inane post about MAP21 and its most worthless PE ever...oh wait, I just did...

Yeah, if you had to name the two biggest faults of PL2 those would be maps that don't stand out from each other well enough and silly use of monster block. Good thing neither of those is very major though.

I've finished the last two levels now. It turns out that map 29 is the first level that is a huge pain from a pistol start - not too much harder than other levels, but very tedious. The only rocket launcher is so deep in the level that I already had 100 rockets by the time I found it, and had in the meantime been forced to slowly snipe countless archies, arachnotrons, mancubi, etc., with bullet weapons when they were obviously meant to be brought down with a few rockets. So, for the sake of fun, keep your loot from map 28 or add your own RL.

I don't blame the map 30 from being fairly traditional - it's hard to think of any Icon of Sin confrontation that hasn't already been done. (Not impossible, but I'm not about to spill my best ideas here.) The new Icon textures look great, very impressive.

I've realized that, while I often compliment wads, I never thank authors, and perhaps I should. So, for anyone in the P2 team, thank you for your work.