Miscellaneous demos (part 1) [please post in part 3 instead]

I was always impressed and inspired by his excellent play, and I had never doubted his demos. However, he removed all videos and he is keeping silent. After such his dubious deed, I can't help doubting them.

For a doomer, I have a big youtube's channel. Also, some players, including okuplok, have a bit big youtube's channels. I'm sure that they can't remove them easily.

tatsurd-cacocaco said:

I was always impressed and inspired by his excellent play, and I had never doubted his demos. However, he removed all videos and he is keeping silent. After such his dubious deed, I can't help doubting them.

For a doomer, I have a big youtube's channel. Also, some players, including okuplok, have a bit big youtube's channels. I'm sure that they can't remove them easily.

Yet Okuplok seems to have closed his own account. :( Shame, really. As you suggested, by dumping all of his videos, he's cast more suspicion upon himself than he would have if he left them alone.

I have a YouTube channel, but currently, it only consists of some Duke Nukem 3D user map speedruns I did way back in 2007. At some point, I'd like to start posting my Doom demos there, but first, I need to get myself a good capture program.

Removing videos could be seen as hiding the evidence just as much as it could be him being disheartened at people suspecting he cheats.

I still don't see the runs themselves as evidence. As gggmork pointed out, TimeOfDeath records runs at the same skill level shown in Okuplok's demos, and he records some of these runs in ZDoom 2.2, and there isn't TAS utilities for that engine. So there should be no doubt playing at this skill level is humanly possible.

And, while we're speaking about TOD, he also did sort of the same thing as Oku did now when he replaced all of his levels in tom19 with some blank rocketjumping map without saying anything at first. I suppose when you're that good at the game you probably care a lot about it, and critics can get to you.

I'm not saying I know *for sure*, but I'm saying given the evidence, or lack there of in my eyes, I still don't believe there's enough to say Okuplok is cheating.

Not taking damage in the vast space doesn't seem that impossible to me, bearing in mind there's only imps and hell knights there in the middle open space behind your back who fire slow projectiles.
People have different talents, when other people who see you do things that they can't perceive exactly how you did it or thought about it, they could think wrong.
Some people can't get how others do things better
Same with you can do things you think is easy, others think it's very hard.
So we can't say someone cheated just because he's done something better that wasn't done before

I was discussing the matter with Okuplok, I tried telling him to discuss with people about his demo and I was talking to him about some of the suspicious spots, like the weird av bfg stacking and some of the dodging with his back.

Of his sayings
"i will admit it does look like tas >_>. cos i didnt get hit. sucks"
"i put hard work into my demos for people to enjoy, i hate being accused for cheating it would be easier for everyone if i closed the account"

also
"Kimo Xvirus: Did you check the newest posts?
Okuplok: yup, they think cos i deleted the videos im hiding something
which im not
Kimo Xvirus: Why did you delete them?
You deprived youtube people from your awesome play
Okuplok: because i got accused of cheating
so it would be better if just close the account and end the arguement

At first he told me he might delete that video cause people would see Vince's comment there and believe, then by the end of the day he said he'll close his account and take a break for doom or just move on from doom
Me and Krypto tried to pursuade him but he didn't listen. He said time to move on. im going now, bye and left

He shouldn't have let this get to him :( I don't know if he's coming back or not, time will tell
He had sent me the demo of that map before, but last I asked him if I could post it, he refused

Seems like an overreaction to a couple internet posts that seemed harmlessly inquisitive. It might help to have thicker skin against opinions/reviews/suspicions/etc of other people. Since recorders generally strive to play their best, TAS suspicion is actually quite a complement/achievement and 'leaving forever' is often a human tactic to go out with a bang of drama to gain attention, but we're all human so such emotional based behavior is understandable. Do whatever you want, but stubbornly leaving forever for the principle of a minor thing seems irrational.
I wouldn't even care much if someone else used tas; that's their decision and doesn't make the game less challenging/fun for me.

Silly dramatics I loved Okuplok's channel and I was working my way through the awesome vids. ugh. I hope he comes back. :(

Years ago I was playing Call of Duty 2 and this guy was loudly RUNNING up behind me through a noisy BUSH so spun around and popped him and for nearly half the round he called me a cheater even though I was in the middle of the ranking board! I told him not to make so much noise and he might live longer and then ignored him.

Some people cheat and others don't and if you're innocent then just defend yourself or ignore it and keep doing what you love and others enjoy.

i don't get that okuplok-tod comparison. why making this conversation about anyone else? tod's style and modus operandi is completely different anyways and his most skilled (imo) demos are his zdaemon rocket jumping recordings where there's no tools. him overwriting his maps on idgames is a mapping thing, absolutely no correlation with cheat accusations. this is just watering down this discussion.

also the 'silent' departure bothers me. it just seems too much like a play on the public emotions and laying a guilt trip on the acusers.

Deleted, people are what they are and adding to the shitstorm won't change anything. Good job driving a great runner away from the community, guys.

Leaving a game you love on such a thing is utterly silly. Unless you have something to regret or conceal.

His reaction is very ambiguous and leaves place to a lot of contradicting interpretations.

After reading the whole discussion I have to agree, the way Okuplok left is just the play on people´s feelings, which disappoints me :-/
When he play so good and flawless that makes people think his demos use TAS, that should be a honor for him! Damn, that´s one of my dreams that somebody will ever consider my whatever demo as cheated!!! :-) He always could come and say: "Hey, people, none of my runs is TAS!" ... I would have no problem with that. But he rather removed all his videos and disappeared, this reaction is stupid and somehow childish and made him kind of untrustable. I really liked his runs so I am quite disappointed by this thing now.
Particularly, I watched that famous sd20 not-taking-a-single-hit flawless maxrun and ... well ... even with godlike doom tallent you cannot pretend everything that happens outside your view angle, but it seemed that Okuplok always perfectly knew the whole situation around him without checking it, hesitating during the play or whatever. That makes that run unbelievable.

It's rather a pity. I admire contributions of most speedrunners, and I liked watching his demos, they were quite daring and he managed to do Map33 of SoD rather nicely with stategies that slightly deviated from my expectations (but I guess that's normal for most demos, heh) but you could tell he did put a lot of time into it.

Just to clear the air, I'm rather confused with the demo naming between Sd and Sod as Sd can be either sunder or speed of doom, so, I'm assuming apparently I've missed his demo of not being hit once on Map20's Path to Hell? That's a let down. :-(

Besides, TAS or not, there is no shame in making a contribution. I rather enjoy watching TAS demos as well, it is still 'human' in its own right and it gives you ideas of how further optimised a speedrun can be. I think I might be stating the obvious but just my two cents.

Nothing new, just 3 UV Max demos for Obituary which are about 30% faster than my demos recorded last year.
MAP01 in 3:40, MAP04 in 5:32 and MAP09 in 5:16

obticmax.zip

DoomHero85 said:
-complevel 9 Enjoy!

Use 2 (DOOM II) or 3 (The ultimate DOOM) for vanilla or limit removing levels like Scythe and Scythe 2. Use 9 for "Boom compatible" WADs.

Sorry for bumping this discussion, but I moved away and my stuff was in boxes, etc.

I agree with Gusta in that I wish people thought I cheated. Then I could have fun and make a proof video with a webcam or digital camera showing me playing live and recording a demo, or just do a zdoom demo or something. If it were me, I'd do whatever I could to prove myself because I care a lot about Doom and my reputation as a player. Sure, everyone's different, and I'm not saying I think Okuplok cheated. He just left, so I don't know what to think.

Edit: I think it could also help to learn more about Okuplok's background/history in Doom.

his reaction about our questions was not straightforward (as he could have done what you said and defend himself).

That leads me to think he was not honest with his demos ...

Thats kinda like driving under the influence, if you refuse to take the test, there is a very strong possibility that you are guilty. The cops take it as such.

TimeOfDeath said:

I agree with Gusta in that I wish people thought I cheated.

i've been saying that for YEARS. you cheated your rocket jumping demos with your BIONIC HANDS. :) you're right that a similarly skilled zdoom demo would've proven us wrong easily.

vdgg said:
Four UV Max demos for One Bloody Night by Erik Alm.

Map05 has a short REJECT lump. I vaguely remember this being talked about when the WAD was fresh and it probably explains why there were no demos for the level till now. The short lump is all zeros, so to get the demo to run with Doom2 all one needs to do is run ZenNode with -rz on Map05.

The Green Herring said:
DIESCUM.WAD with a rebuilt REJECT; required for playback

In these cases I recommend a REJECT with all zeros. See also this post for short non-zero REJECTs. The advantage of these methods is that PrBoom+ users don't need the fix (as the engine does it for them) and that if someone inadvertently and independently records with Prboom+, our patched level will be the same as what Prboom+ generates on the fly.

myk said:
In these cases I recommend a REJECT with all zeros. See also this post for short non-zero REJECTs. The advantage of these methods is that PrBoom+ users don't need the fix (as the engine does it for them) and that if someone inadvertently and independently records with Prboom+, our patched level will be the same as what Prboom+ generates on the fly. [/B]

I think PRBoom pads the Reject with zeroes, rather than zeroing the whole thing. This would mean that, unless the WADs existing Reject Map is all zeroes, a fixed WAD will still be necessary.

Andy Olivera said:
I think PRBoom pads the Reject with zeroes, rather than zeroing the whole thing. This would mean that, unless the WADs existing Reject Map is all zeroes, a fixed WAD will still be necessary.

Check the link I provided to my previous post; it explains how to deal with non-zero REJECTs. What I'm saying is that if the fixed REJECT is made in the ways that I noted (all-zeros for 0-byte REJECTs or short zero-only REJECTs, or appending the corresponding amount of zeros to non-zero REJECTs with frhed's append feature) PrBoom+ will not need the fix WAD because it will automatically be doing the same thing the specified fix WAD does.

Anyone who's been following my idgames/levels/doom demos can now follow my campaign in its very own thread here. That's all.

@ The Green Herring: I am going to try to do the same as you except with all the doom 2 levels (gonna take years if possible, I know) :D

Here's my first entry for this marathon of insanity!

000emg UV-max in 3:11

0emg311.zip

Here are three demos of 01.wad: a uv-speed of map 01, and uv-max's of map 02 and both maps together. Enjoy!

01lmppak.zip

sorry for the double post, but I redid the uv-speed for 01.wad map01. This one is much better. Delete the uv-speed from the previous pack please.

01spd036.zip

DoomHero85 said:
I am going to try to do the same as you except with all the doom 2 levels (gonna take years if possible, I know) :D

Too bad Whispers of Satan begin with a W. The demos for WOS will be recorded when I'm dead and buried already.

I can start with those next if you like, I never said I was going to do them in order ;)

Let's call it an official request then ;) PM sent to DoomHero85

@vdgg: Here's a WOS map 20 uv-max in 13:32. def can be improved, but it's a really tough map and I personally don't feel like trying for something faster.

ws201332.zip

DoomHero85: that one was quick. Thanks! (BTW, i said "there's no rush" in a PM). Waiting for more cyberdemon-rocket-close-to-your-ear! :)
Xepop: I watched your Phobos Anomaly stroller demo and I'm speechless. Incredible stuff! And in Siege it looks cool strolling in front of a few arch-viles and cyberdemons...

Here's another WOS demo. Map 23 this time. Btw, I may be playing on the non-bugfixed version as I noticed when I went to the exit the linedef was backwards. Enjoy the demo!

ws231418.zip

Again, sorry for double posting. I just get these demos done too fast I guess ;) Here's map 24 of WOS done in 13:50. I updated to the fixed version for this one. Enjoy watching me expend all my ammo.

EDIT: I'm not even kidding about this, but it seems like a demo for map 29 is going to take over an hour to record. 6 keys: Each with its own dungeon = PAIN!

ws241350.zip