Does a map with no monsters need a good REJECT table?

I am working on a DM map with no monsters. Do maps without monsters need a good reject table for players?

De Zeurkous
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Friggin' Machines

Nope.

No. The reject table is not used to determine what is drawn on screen (ie what the player can see), only what sectors are potentially visible to each other. It's used to determine what parts of the map monsters in any given sector have no chance of seeing into. That way the engine doesn't have to waste cycles calculating lines of sight in those situations.

I disagree.

My level ROKS (DM only level) without a full reject runs very poorly.

I would run a full reject on all levels of any size, just to make sure things run as good as they can. It also doesn't hurt, other than the time it takes you to run RMB on your level.

But how? The reject code in Doom specifically relates to monsters and monsters only. Does Edge use the reject table to determine the PVS?

It's not used only for monsters.

I can see a huge difference in any DOOM based engine with a level that has and has not been processed, monsters or no monsters.

I'm just curious, what's a good reason not to include a reject in the first place?

No reason really. It's just that if your map has no monsters I always thought there was no point in going through the trouble. After all it can take a while to build a perfect reject table in monsterously huge levels. Carmack himself even said the reject table *could* be used to assist in on screen rendering, but that he didn't think of it at the time.

I don't think there's too many monsterously huge levels with no monsters... although I do know reject is supposed to apply to everything from players to projectiles like rockets and BFG shots, which afaik could get screwed up without a reject to work with. I think that's what some node builders offer percentages like 33% or 66% to work with, so that things like that operate without a problem but it doesn't add support for enemies and the like.

Of course, I've always built full rejects so I don't know any of this for sure.

According to the docs that come with rmb the reject table *never* applies to players. Dunno about some of those other things you mentioned but it sounds plausible since the reject is an essential resouce (the wad won't run without one). Most node builders just make an empty reject table though (all zeros).

Thanks all of you. I will built a reject table for my wad with RMB.

De Zeurkous
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Friggin' Machines!

I can see a huge difference in any DOOM based engine with a level that has and has not been processed, monsters or no monsters.

On a P200 maybe:) Hardly any difference on PIII450 on up. None of the "stock" levels show any measurable difference.

Been a while since I tested all that, but I don't think even on a P200 stock levels will show any difference. Extremely large levels on slow machines with lots of "things" are a prob. Remember, DOOM was designed to run on a 486!