Compet-N: incoming and discussion, part 1 [please post in part 2 instead]

Requiem
UV Fast
Map 23 in 12:10

vdgg said:

Memento Mori, MAP28 (City of the Unavenged by Jens Nielsen)), -fast in *cough* 37:59

Congrats, vdgg! I actually tried doing this once, but I could never complete it. Words alone can't describe how astonishing an achievement this is!

rf231210.zip

vdgg said:

A love it or hate it level, as Andy Olivera put it: http://visionsofdoom.us/rev_mm.html

That page is at least 12 years old. I wonder if he still calls this map his "forever favorite" today? :P

vdgg said:

I didn't notice any doortracks with wrong unpegging,

Neither did I. ;)

vdgg said:

just some walls that disappear when lowered.

Not "disappear". They look like they are being eaten by the air. Not what I call a good design trick.

But that detracts nothing from the demo. A fine achievement, especially since it's something nobody ever did before.

vdgg: Excellent! I'll be watching very soon.

N_A: MM28 isn't the greatest map from a visual perspective, but that describes most of MM. It's a product of its time(MM2 was much better in this regard). However, I still have no problem calling it one of the best in terms of layout and gameplay. That Jens managed to pack so much action into a relatively small area is very impressive, especially in the pre-HR, pre-limit removing era. It's a perfect example of hard, 'classic' design.

9 minutes faster :)

PS Revved I don't think your rf23 demo qualifies as a valid UV -fast. Still, as my first demos are from 2009, opinions of more experienced players would be welcome.

mm282859.zip

I haven't watched the demo myself, but ghosts have been the subject of some leniency in the past (e.g. on hr26/hf26), as they can prove quite random, or liable not to appear or to get stuck in places where they are inaccessible.

I'd tend to regard it as valid until and unless someone comes along and produces a demo where more or all of them are killed. That has been the case with demos where there are hard-to-access monsters.

The HR26 case is actually due to a design flaw. The linedefs that give the Arch-Viles access to the Cacodemons are only 16 units away from the teleporter linedefs you need to cross. This makes it very possible to teleport before releasing the Arch-Viles. I think it's possible to wallrun pass the linedef that activates the crusher, too, but I'm not sure.

Regarding Revved's RQ24 demo, I would definitely say invalid. The monster could've been easily killed. Besides, monsters wandering or not teleporting have always been a problem for some levels, but there's a difference between unlikely/impossible versus simple bad luck.

First of all, let me say that all that ghost-killing is like black magic for me :)

I watched Adam's Max demo, but his method is very unreliable (he admits it in this TXT). Xit left the ghosts until the end - I wouldn't recommend that either.

Now onto Revved's -fast demo, which is very fine BTW (despite all that max kills controversy). The ghosts' behaviour was very interesting for me. One nazi got stuck in an inaccessible sector. 10 nazis went outside the map(you can use -skipsec 375 and watch them on automap with iddt). Only one waited patiently until the end and was killed.

I attach a demo which I recorded using -recordfromto 99, based on Revved's demo. I just kill the ghosts and press quit. This method of killing them is a bit slow, but it's the only one I found reliable. Pressing the YK switch and killing a sergeant is optional, you may do it later.

I will not put rf231210 in /incoming unless there's strong opposition (e.g.Ryback+Myk+Tatsurd+Hitherto will say I'd better put it on the list).

ghosts.zip

vdgg said:

First of all, let me say that all that ghost-killing is like black magic for me :)

I watched Adam's Max demo, but his method is very unreliable (he admits it in this TXT). Xit left the ghosts until the end - I wouldn't recommend that either.

Now onto Revved's -fast demo, which is very fine BTW (despite all that max kills controversy). The ghosts' behaviour was very interesting for me. One nazi got stuck in an inaccessible sector. 10 nazis went outside the map(you can use -skipsec 375 and watch them on automap with iddt). Only one waited patiently until the end and was killed.

I attach a demo which I recorded using -recordfromto 99, based on Revved's demo. I just kill the ghosts and press quit. This method of killing them is a bit slow, but it's the only one I found reliable. Pressing the YK switch and killing a sergeant is optional, you may do it later.

I will not put rf231210 in /incoming unless there's strong opposition (e.g.Ryback+Myk+Tatsurd+Hitherto will say I'd better put it on the list).

Wow, nice indepth work, vdgg. Today, I was actually thinking about killing the SS ghosts at the start as well, but I did it as soon as they came out. This is shown in this improved demo of the same level in 12:05. I think I killed all the ghosts here.

rf231205.zip

hf26 was never submitted as a Compet-N run - I had one ghost imp left alive with no way to kill it, which is different from the ghost monsters at the end failing to be resurrected. From memory I think it then wandered off the map somewhere. Pretty sure that particular circumstance rules it out of C-N eligibility.

Haven't watched Revved's demo yet but if ghosts are allowed to wander free then I think it's ineligible.

Revved said:

Today, I was actually thinking about killing the SS ghosts at the start as well, but I did it as soon as they came out. This is shown in this improved demo of the same level in 12:05. I think I killed all the ghosts here.

Indeed, you did! And faster, too.:-)

MM2 MAP22 -fast. See you all in September

m2222608.zip

A small improvement to mm2 map05 respawn

m205r437.zip

Requiem map 23 UVspeed in 1:49

I saw the discussion and took a look on this map (and wad). I then thought after a little testing that it would be nice to see it done under 2 mins.

rq23-149.zip

Memento Mori 2
UV Fast
Map 9 in 19:23

I'm probably going to stop for a while, like vdgg.

m2091923.zip

MM2
UV -fast
MAP03 - 5:46

m203f546.zip

Same map, regular Max - easy point.

MM2
UV Max
MAP03 - 4:54

m203-454.zip

Quick question, only somewhat off-topic: now that Compet-n's ftp database seems to be entirely offline, rather than merely a derelict, crawling shell of its former self, is there any other place where I can download older Compet-n demos?

If you're talking very old, then there's http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/vendors/idgames/lmps/COMPET-N/ (or one of the other idgames mirrors)

Many of the newer ones are at http://doomedsda.us/

That still leaves me with no source for Compet-N demos released between 2000 and 2005.

Darn.

I'm guessing the FTP is online, but the name server issue is affecting it. The doom2.net website works, at least if you add it to HOSTS, although I couldn't get the FTP to work that way.

Creaphis said:
is there any other place where I can download older Compet-n demos?

http://www.4shared.com/file/XfzOWE_M/compet-n.html

Haha, thanks Myk. I knew that some of the regulars would have a private backup.

I, on the other hand, haven't been saving any wads or demos to my hard drive anymore. I figured that the online archives would always be complete, informative and persistent enough for my uses. I guess I was wrong.

Never assume that. If something is important to you, have your own local copy. And a back-up or two.

Homesoft's collection of Atari disk images died on me that way.

Demotopia (ZX Spectrum scene site) has been inactive for so long it can go any time now.

Teleport Pro is your friend.

If anyone's interested, here's a collection of all the Compet-n update packs Adam Hegyi posted between Sep 1999 and 2005. You should be able to find any demo released in that period in there.

http://www.mediafire.com/?y7p9im2al0al0

Edited, the post wasn't contributive. It might be later.

Thanks for the link Ryback =)

Ryback said:
If anyone's interested, here's a collection of all the Compet-n update packs Adam Hegyi posted between Sep 1999 and 2005.

What I uploaded is Compet-n's officially organized folders up to the last update, minus those packs (which I excluded so the ZIP didn't get too big, as, if I'm not mistaken, they have the same stuff without the older files, but unsorted) and incoming (found more fully at the DSDA.)

The recent demos are really to my taste. I am surprised no one commented on
xepop's rq23-149 This is brilliant!!!
Revved's MAP09 -fast demo This is your best demo in this category from what I rememeber.
Hitherto's demos: A very clever Max. My favourite part was the chaingunning sequence which began at 1:42. A few times I also tried doing a -fast demo on certain maps and after that, a Max demo, it brings good results with more ease than normally. A brilliant map, unfortunately too boring for a Tyson. But...didn't you read mm2.txt? "DO NOT LEAVE THE CAVE WITHOUT CLOSING THE POOL!" ;)

Oh yes, I noticed my -respawn record didn't last too long...

@Eugene, whenever you read this, there's a PM for you.

This is a bit old and a bit sloppy, but I'm unable to improve ATM
MM2, MAP14 (A Question of Time by Matthias Worch and Thomas Moeller): UV Max in 10:06

m2141006.zip

vdgg said:
xepop's rq23-149 This is brilliant!!!

I agree - great stuff. Smart, fast, difficult and smooth.

A few times I also tried doing a -fast demo on certain maps and after that, a Max demo, it brings good results with more ease than normally.

Generally. Good example of exception: mm05f442. After doing this on 10 sec faster than Xit's regular max, I planned to beat it easily. And I had failed. :)

But...didn't you read mm2.txt? "DO NOT LEAVE THE CAVE WITHOUT CLOSING THE POOL!" ;)

Finally, after fourteen years I should report - no monsters had left in that pool beyond those cacodemons, sir!

Seriously, it was most significant time loss in previous maxes.

vdgg said:

Revved's MAP09 -fast demo[/b] This is your best demo in this category from what I rememeber.

Wow, thanks. Anyways...

Requiem
UV Fast
Map 21 in 12:29

rf211229.zip

Looks like Andy didn't like p2m6-033 so I strived for a bit better one. :)
If you don't mind (some probably will do) I post it here and not in the original thread.

p2m6-028

p2m6-028.zip