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Demon of the Well
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I wasn't really feeling map 19 either (it and map 02 from the first episode are the only ones I really didn't care for, though, which is a damn good batting average), but I'd hardly say it's an unreasonable proposition, certainly a far cry from unplayable. Intimidation factor may be initially somewhat high, but even on UV you'll be spending so much time under the influence of V-spheres that actual threat level's pretty low as long as you proceed with some kind of plan rather than just flailing about and hoping for the best (even that might work on lower difficulties, dunno). The main challenge is just not panicking if vile attacks throw you a bit off course, and perhaps in being mindful of your ammo consumption in the second segment so that you're not stranded in a sea of flaming skulls when your invulnerability wears off.

That being said, it's unrepentantly the zaniest, most gimmickry-laden map in a set that's full of zany gimmick maps, so I can certainly understand the sentiment that it's tough to take it seriously....which is half the point, I suspect.

Old Post 06-01-14 00:20 #
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mouldy
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yeah i wouldn't take any of these maps too seriously, especially 19. Its something of a concept map, the concept being 'i wanna fight 100 archviles'. There are enough secret passages in that map that it might even be possible to do without using a single invul sphere...

edit: fairly easy in fact once you know all the secret passages
http://www.mediafire.com/download/r...-19-noinvul.lmp

Last edited by mouldy on 06-01-14 at 02:17

Old Post 06-01-14 01:41 #
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plums
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Yeah I actually found the PE section more difficult than the AV section on 19. I did like it though, I thought the extreme gimmickry was endearing. I'll have to watch that demo later. I wonder how impossible a pacifist run would be?

Old Post 06-01-14 03:25 #
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mouldy
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plums said:
I wonder how impossible a pacifist run would be?


The most difficult part would be getting through the PEs. There is a spot you can stand in safety and watch them all killing each other for 5 minutes, it won't be very exciting viewing but might theoretically be possible... I imagine the next tricky bit would be going back into the vile zone after that and not getting immediately roasted

Old Post 06-01-14 04:22 #
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Springy
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FooDaaaaA for some map. Had to cut it short because my sound went extremely buggy in that soulsphere revenant place (kept looping plasma sound and Revenant death sound).

Old Post 06-01-14 20:52 #
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mouldy
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Springy said:
FooDaaaaA for some map. Had to cut it short because my sound went extremely buggy in that soulsphere revenant place (kept looping plasma sound and Revenant death sound).


Cheers, shame your sound bugged out. I get that sometimes in prboom+ where the sound freezes like a stuck cd and you can't even close the software without task manager. Seems to be entirely random.

Old Post 06-01-14 22:16 #
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Springy
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That's the first time the problem actually happened to me, oddly enough the demo didn't capture the sound difference. Anyway, I tried a majority of the maps and I am liking what I am playing so far. I would have done other FDAs and I might do them tomorrow for maps I haven't given a shot yet.

Old Post 06-01-14 23:25 #
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mouldy
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Cool, always appreciate the fdas, thanks

Old Post 06-01-14 23:29 #
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cortlong50
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You had me at toilets.

this looks great, ill be back to let you know what i think!


I've got to map ten so far and I am in love with this thing.
You've definitely use the limited space to it's best advantage.
And map five was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Edit again.

I've been giving this further play and I have to say...this thing is a little slaughters for my tastes. I loved the way it started but it's got a little out of hand. But that's just me! I'm not trying to be rude or anything.

Last edited by cortlong50 on 06-08-14 at 06:40

Old Post 06-02-14 23:21 #
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Katamori
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Sorry for the long break. As usual, I don't wanna hurry.

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Old Post 06-11-14 23:12 #
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mouldy
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cortlong50 said:


I've been giving this further play and I have to say...this thing is a little slaughters for my tastes. I loved the way it started but it's got a little out of hand. But that's just me! I'm not trying to be rude or anything.



Hey no problem, glad you enjoyed the earier maps. This wad is purely a reflection of my own taste in gameplay so I wont take offense if its not everyone's cup of tea. I just like making a mess :)


Katamori said:
Sorry for the long break. As usual, I don't wanna hurry.


Hey nice that you are still soldiering on with this. I honestly can't tell if you are enjoying these later maps or not, but its good to see this one didn't give you too much trouble (that bfg sure helped)

Old Post 06-12-14 00:08 #
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Cell
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Been over a month I first played maps 12-20, but now here are my criticism:

#12: Can be quite tiresome if one's not atop the situation, but nevertheless, still a nice slaughter experience.

#13: Almost the same as #12, though I should've been more aware of not being able to backtrack after lowering all the stairs, since I had only 1 secret of the total 4 or 6, Idunno.

#14: I accidentally skipped it for no apparent reason, maybe next time. :(

#15: One of the best versions of Gladiator maps, I just loved how the "audience" became angry at my consecutive victories, along with Counsellor Cyberdemon. :D

#31: A great concept, and it took awhile to realise it's made out of different portions, since floor overlap isn't allowed in the Doom engine. The stairway fights were sometimes close-quarters, but as long as I only got minor bruises (the most injurous was a loss of 14 HP at once), I still could live on with it.

#32: Now that's what I call a flawless "retrospective"! The MAP01 part getting a rendition of e.g. being ruined and stuff has always been one of my favourites (this excludes Warrens for some odd reason, the one I find rather lame). All the teleporting-all-over and similar made me die 2 times due to Cybie rockets at the worst place in the worst time, but so what, it was rather my fault fleeing tue-těte.

#16: The map I really loved the visuals of, not only referencing to the fact how in Hell could one fit an elevator into this "gothic" realm. The method(s) of e.g. depicting a "flowing red carpet onto stairs" only with stock textures really caught my interest, as well as other solutions throughout. Not particularly hard, just get on well-timed and make them pray in this saintly place.

#17: Pretty much the same kind of map like MAP09 using the same music, and the intended title pun made me chuckle. Was my bad to lose all the way to the only yellow key, since at the very beginning of the map, I climbed that elevator that majorly leads to it, and no ever for another half-an-hour. The art of installing well-looking coffins into corpse chambers got out of trend since the very-first Hellcore wad, so I was glad to see you do it. :)

#18: I was a bit offset at this time after wasting precious time figuring out how to beat the previous map all by my fault, so it took me another 2-3 minutes to realize, it's just the same way I get out as in the original MAP18 (Was this "coincidence" intentional, BTW?). Firstly, I was shocked at how empty the map was, but things came to a change when I lowered a wall, to see many Hellknights and some Barons escape the lava-filled backcave. Took me quite some time to take all those bastards down, but it literally didn't cost that much sweat. And again, a somewhat different ending of the level like the one in #12.

#19: At first, this level was only suspicious as I was praying those Archies won't attack me at once. Luckily it didn't happen, I could take 'em down all by one when time arrived, but then I entered a teleporter and HOLY SHIT WHAT'S GOING ON. Invinciblity spheres can resist to infinite Archvile attacks, but they still don't compensate the fact that all my screen is covered into f*cking flames, and this phenomenon along with me getting thrown all over the place (which I could only see in the two sides of the screen) got me instantly sick. Luckily I had a Big F*cking Gun on me, and since my AutoAim worked perfectly, soon I was the one who blasted them onto pieces. The other area with the Elementals was lesser of a threat, but maybe only because I still carried the BFG. The map name and the concept of two, structurally identical (even secrets), yet completely differently themed areas still appealed to me, so I have no further apparent reason for any other complaint to make.

#20: OH NO, THE ELEVATOR IS BROKEN. After all these struggles and showdowns, I felt like a close comrade of mine had passed away. But enough of the emotions, since an enraged horde of Imps was about to ambush me, escaping from... uh, a demonic mouth? It's never too late to be hallucinating about what's going on underground. As Katamori said before, the Imps were not only showstarters, but the actual major showdown for the map, leaving the rest of the work to only some other meat shields and damaging lava which can fast and easily be escaped from if one's conscious enough. Now, a ruined pile of metal panels and cables won't be bringing me deeper, so are you telling me I'd better be swallowed??? Well, if there's no other choice, why not.

(Eagerly waiting for the consecutive ending!)

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Last edited by Cell on 06-13-14 at 00:41

Old Post 06-12-14 01:12 #
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mouldy
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hehe excellent cheers for the feedback!


Cell said:


#18: I was a bit offset at this time after wasting precious time figuring out how to beat the previous time all by my fault, so it took me another 2-3 minutes to realize, it's just the same way I get out as in the original MAP18 (Was this "coincidence" intentional, BTW?).



Wow i didn't even realise that, but you are right, its just like the original map18 start. Thats a complete coincidence, but I wish I'd planned it now.

Map 14 I'm guessing you grabbed the key off the shelf. I thought I had fixed that in the more recent version, but maybe you are using an older one.

I'm currently working on map23, hopefully I'll get the last episode done in the next month or 2... or 3

Old Post 06-12-14 01:40 #
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Katamori
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mouldy said:
Hey nice that you are still soldiering on with this. I honestly can't tell if you are enjoying these later maps or not, but its good to see this one didn't give you too much trouble (that bfg sure helped)


I told you that I recorded all the remaining maps. I just upload them slowly to get some time for me to record and render my videos.

Anyways, MAP16 was pretty far more enjoyable than the previous maps in the chapter. MAP17 was another disappointment though. I didn't even play that through properly, which is funny because I did it with MAP18 then.

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Old Post 06-12-14 02:01 #
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Cell
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mouldy said:
I'm currently working on map23, hopefully I'll get the last episode done in the next month or 2... or 3

No more than 2, please. I don't want to wait until my next semester kicks off, it would be a displeasure.

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Old Post 06-12-14 12:48 #
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Katamori
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MAP17. I didn't have patience for it, so possibly it's a worse video than the others.

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Old Post 06-15-14 15:17 #
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mouldy
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haha! Oh dear, I admire your commitment. Its pretty clear this style of gameplay isn't your cup of tea, though you make things so much worse by triggering all the traps and then saving your game in impossible situations. That map in particular is a nasty one for booby traps, the rocket launcher ambush at the start is a warning that every weapon will come at a price. The best tactic is to avoid that yellow key until you've fully explored the rest of the map.

Old Post 06-15-14 16:06 #
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Katamori
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Well, if the maps are great, then I'll record them. And they obviously are!

And yep, this is the first time ever that I play maps with both non-linear gameplay and monster traps. Painful combination, I have to admit.

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Old Post 06-15-14 16:23 #
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Katamori
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MAP18. Tough, but unlike most of the other cruel maps, I just couldn't stop doing it.

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Old Post 06-18-14 14:23 #
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mouldy
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That auto aim is a pain on this map for sure, in fact I had to make some significant alterations after testing to try and improve it. Looks like it all worked pretty well though, you basically just have to survive long enough for the cybers to arrive and help you kill everything, so it seems impossible at first, then gets even worse, and then starts to ease up.

I'm certainly noticing your blood-pressure rising as these maps go on, looking forward to see how you cope with the next one.

Old Post 06-18-14 15:28 #
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Katamori
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Yup, my blood pressure went constantly up, and as you could see, I was pretty damn happy when I heard the dying cyberdemon sounds. They were not really in my way fortunately, possibly I was the lucky one because I didn't want to run around them this time.

About MAP19: I think I have mentioned on the previous page of this thread, but if not, I spoil it.


spoiler - highlight to read:

I just simply wasn't able to do anything, so after some inglorious attempts, I had to cheat. Pain Elemental area was significantly easier, though.

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Old Post 06-18-14 15:51 #
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Katamori
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The "infamous" MAP19.

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Old Post 06-22-14 17:42 #
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mouldy
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Ahh, you were doing quite well. Its a bit dangerous to charge around blasting BFG on that map, even if you are invulnerable. However, there are lots of secret passages to let you play more stealthily if you prefer. But yes, what people in my country might call a 'marmite' map

Old Post 06-22-14 18:53 #
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