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pcorf
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Wow.wad was not intentionally made to be a worst wad. It was just somebody who couldn't figure out the editor but managed to get the level to run and was proud. Wow.wad is easily the most mentioned WAD of all time. So wow.wad is my pick for the worst WAD of all time.
Old Post 04-10-12 18:13 #
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printz
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K!r4 said:

Wait... What?
Not the port. And neither "BOOM: Shadow of The Zedix" (Heretic-like TC for Doom 1). No. It's the other Boom TC.

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Old Post 04-10-12 23:44 #
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Doomguy 2000
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Slaughter maps in general, starting with the most recent worst wad I ever played Slaughterfest 2011. I believe these type of maps are ruining Doom, but then again it's just me.

I'll spare Vanguard in this case since there were some maps like that and at least you could have a chance in them regardless of how hard they were.
Old Post 04-11-12 03:27 #
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Processingcontrol
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Doomguy 2000 said:
...I believe these type of maps are ruining Doom...

http://www.sundriesshack.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Irony-Meter-Explode.jpg
Old Post 04-11-12 03:31 #
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Ribo Zurai
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Doomguy 2000 said:
Slaughter maps in general, starting with the most recent worst wad I ever played Slaughterfest 2011. I believe these type of maps are ruining Doom, but then again it's just me.


You shouldn't hate a WAD because it's too hard. Look at Sunder, or Hell Revealed II for example. They were harder than anything ever played by a human being, but they were still awesome.

Also, I believe you should look at your own work before judging the others', sir.
Old Post 04-11-12 03:35 #
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Doomguy 2000
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Ribo Zurai said:


You shouldn't hate a WAD because it's too hard. Look at Sunder, or Hell Revealed II for example. They were harder than anything ever played by a human being, but they were still awesome.

Also, I believe you should look at your own work before judging the others', sir.


Yeah that true like I said it was just me. I have at least looked at Speed Of Doom and Hell Revealed II but haven't fully played them yet because I have been busy working on improving one of my previous projects. Other people hate Slaughterfest 2011 as well since it shows in the overall rating.
Old Post 04-11-12 03:49 #
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kmxexii
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There's nothing inherently wrong with slaughtermaps, and there is nothing requiring people that don't enjoy them to play them. The sea of Doom maps is vast and deep and growing deeper every day.

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Old Post 04-11-12 04:10 #
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gggmork
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The overall rating of something is kind of a useless illusion- many people's separate opinions all mushed together into a single grade ('n out of 5 stars' etc) as if that single value is useful in measuring anything concrete other than maximum approval of the majority. The cutting edge, where the majority rarely tread, is where interesting things happen in general. I think its good to have bipolar reviews where people either really hate or really love it because that means its eccentric, interesting, not watered down for the majority. You almost want the majority to hate it. Making something appealing to the largest majority possible is for the realm of profit where the goal is to maximize income, which ends up with shit like mcdonalds food and modern non risky movie sequels. I like when art is all assembled by one individual brain because individuals can be really unique and interesting (ulillillia?) whereas the larger the group of humans the more the law of large numbers and averages makes that group the same overall beast as any other group. This hivemind 'beast' releases the same basic games and movies etc over and over again because any eccentricities of individuals are watered down and blended into the group, making that group similar to any other large group in terms of output.
Old Post 04-11-12 04:32 #
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NightFright
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Definitely UAC Military Nightmare. At least it deserves an honorable mention here. However, it's actually so bad that it has some entertainment value again - and I have to admit level 9 still scares the hell outta me.
Old Post 04-11-12 10:21 #
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dannebubinga
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Doomguy 2000 said:
Other people hate Slaughterfest 2011 as well since it shows in the overall rating.


You seem to have missed that the only numbers the people at idgames know are 0 and 5.

I don't understand why people HATE SF2011 anyway. What the hell have we done to make everyone so pissed of? At least we aren't smug bastards who hype our stuff to the max with 3 different threads for progress - release - feedback. The participans had a common goal: to make a 32 map slaughter wad, which we did. Now everyone hates us.

When you stop sucking at doom and learn to dodge, SF2011 is actually a solid dose of challenge.

Ok, maybe I've pissed someone of now.
Old Post 04-11-12 12:20 #
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Phobus
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The thing is, the kind of Slaughtermaps in SF2011 are very extreme. To anybody who doesn't REALLY enjoy that sort of gameplay but can survive it, it's just tediously mowing through endless hordes of monsters. I don't care that I can beat that sort of stuff, it just bores me. Even the "mainstream" slaughter stuff gets like that for me at points. Yes, I can kill a block of 100 monsters with practically infinite equipment and a large amount of space. Great.

However, I know this, so I simply never bothered playing it. The screenshots alone told me everything I'd ever need to know about it. I don't rate it down as it's simply irrelevant to my tastes.
Old Post 04-11-12 13:25 #
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Cacatou
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In the end the point is: If you don't like slaughtermaps don't play Slaughterfest. It's stupid to complain about this.
Old Post 04-11-12 13:36 #
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Hellbent
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dannebubinga said:


Ok, maybe I've pissed someone of now.
maybe only the grammarphiles.
Old Post 04-11-12 13:40 #
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j4rio
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Definitely slaughterfest 2011 because I'm a cripple and therefore am unable to beat it. Also it has a dumb name. But I won't hate on anything else because masses love anything else.

:|

I have been busy working on improving one of my previous projects.


300000 levels are on the way! Rejoice!1!
Old Post 04-11-12 14:55 #
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MajorRawne
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I'm not sure which my worst wad is. I tend to think of individual maps within projects rather than the projects themselves. I wasn't keen on the monomania behind the DTWID project although in fairness I haven't played the megawad through yet. I am not particularly motivated by maps which are spartan and try to recapture the glory of 1994 (which was nearly 20 years ago), or maps which spam with Revenants and Arch-Viles.

Going back to the slaughtermaps thing, I am trying to work on a contribution to the Slaughtermap 2012 megawad just so I can say I created a slaughtermap. I don't really enjoy Slaughtermaps though and I fail to see what's so awesome about the Hell Revealed series, although I have honestly tried. I just find them stupid and frustrating on UV, and when you watch people beating them on Youtube (which I admit I like to do when I get a chance), you'll notice the player always spams monsters with the BFG. Always. Every time. I admit the players are clearly highly skilled, but how would they fare without a BFG, or with only a quarter of the plasma ammunition? Not very well, I suspect.

EDIT: To put my money where my mouth is, my 2012 Slaughtermap (if it gets finished) doesn't have a BFG. A slaughtermap I inherited for the Panophobia project has had its BFG removed by me. (I cut down on the Revenant and Arch-Viles in the map to compensate, and to allow players without godly skills to have a good blast.)

Also, my Arachnophobia map from the same megawad requires the player to go up against one of the boss monsters without a BFG, the ONLY time I have ever seen this. No more "one shot goodbyes"!

Last edited by MajorRawne on 04-11-12 at 15:16
Old Post 04-11-12 15:10 #
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Scypek2
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you shouldn't hate a wad because it's too hard.


hard doesn't have to mean slaughter. It would be good to know that.
Old Post 04-11-12 15:57 #
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purist
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MajorRawne said:
To put my money where my mouth is, my 2012 Slaughtermap (if it gets finished) doesn't have a BFG.


This is similar to my angle for SF2012. A slaughtermap with no cellss and and no boss monsters. I wonder exactly how few monsters you can boil a map down to before it's no longer considered a slaughtermap.
Old Post 04-11-12 16:47 #
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Phml
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Monster count is irrelevant.

Your son's maps were pretty slaughtery. ;)
Old Post 04-11-12 17:02 #
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purist
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Ha, I'll save myself the bother and submit his maps instead then :-)

I suppose you're right but one of the aspects I'd identify a slaughter map by is monster volume. Perhaps it should be monster density.

Back on topic, I'll nominate my own Helavator as worst WAD. I'd feel mean nominating anyone else's unless they put no effort in and I don't download anything unless it appears to have some work put into it.
Old Post 04-11-12 17:47 #
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Phml
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Perhaps it should be monster density.


Agreed, along with tier. One or two dozens of zombies and imps in a single fight are odds you find even in the IWADs, and I don't think anyone would call that slaughter-style ; two or three rockets can dispatch groups like that. On the other hand, if this is about the same number of revenants and hell knights, now we're talking business. :)
Old Post 04-11-12 18:01 #
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gggmork
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MajorRawne said:
you'll notice the player always spams monsters with the BFG. Always. Every time.


No bfg in sf2011 map22; RL is highest weapon. Some of my feckyoo maps:
http://speedy.sh/Sj8dj/feckyoo.zip
hardly had any weapons, like map2 you have to punch a cyber to death without berzerk (demo of me and TOD doing it), and map 3 you have to break out of a surrounding blockade of dormant monsters using cyber infighting; shooting at all will result in death because they'll all wake up and easily swarm you.

I kind of equate 'hard' to 'slaughter', whatever, the latter probably isn't precise/agreed upon. Could mean the odds are that the PLAYER will be 'slaughtered' (because its hard) instead of having tons of monsters to slaughter. I usually like maps that are hard and less than 20 minutes or so, probably preferably less than 10.
Old Post 04-11-12 18:12 #
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Marcaek
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gggmork said:
map 2 you have to punch a cyber to death without berzerk


That sounds horribly tedious. I can't imagine very many people would want to bother doing this.

and map 3 you have to break out of a surrounding blockade of dormant monsters using cyber infighting; shooting at all will result in death because they'll all wake up and easily swarm you.


This on the other hand, is very smart. Gimmicks of this sort often make for refreshingly innovative gameplay.
Old Post 04-11-12 19:01 #
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MajorRawne
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Yes, adding a tactical element to maps is something I like to look for rather than just sticking 200 plasma generators, a BFG and two invulnerabilities. Good to see others think the same. It could be said that adding tactics to a slaughtermap defeats the objective of such a map but that's a discussion for another day.

A good example of what I regard as a classic "slaughtermap" is map 2 of Doom 2, the Underhalls. You can blast through all those zombies at high speed and nothing really breaks the flow of gameplay. No Revenant spam, no Cybers and no plasma weapons. A tougher one is Doom 2's "The Courtyard", or of course Dead Simple might qualify as an early slaughtermap.

Were there any in Doom 64? I sort of lost interest after the first 10 or so maps. Come to think of it, id Software made Doom 3 slow paced as well, and while that was also a good game, I wouldn't want to play it again.

EDIT: Thanks GGGMork, I'll have a look at that now.
Old Post 04-11-12 21:16 #
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j4rio
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There is berzerk. You don't even remember your own maps. ;p

Without berzerk it would take too long. Current fastest e2m8 tyson is something around half an hour.
Old Post 04-11-12 21:58 #
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gggmork
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Oh yeah, oops, ha ha. Map 3 really needs a central crusher at the end, all well. TOD beat 3 as is but I don't think that demo was in that zip.
Old Post 04-11-12 22:12 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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If you want a good example of 'hard' without resorting to hordes of monsters, Malcolm Sailor is your man.
Old Post 04-11-12 22:41 #
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Phobus
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MajorRawne said:
Also, my Arachnophobia map from the same megawad requires the player to go up against one of the boss monsters without a BFG, the ONLY time I have ever seen this. No more "one shot goodbyes"!

You've clearly not played many .WADs then. My maps alone frequently have the player facing cyberdemons, spider masterminds and some of my own bosses with limited arsenals (ph_quik6.zip has you use a chaingun to beat a spiderdemon) and I've certainly played many others where a BFG isn't available before your first boss monster encounter. Throw in pistol starts in megawads and it's even more common.
Old Post 04-12-12 11:24 #
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Gez
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Phobus said:
The thing is, the kind of Slaughtermaps in SF2011 are very extreme. To anybody who doesn't REALLY enjoy that sort of gameplay but can survive it, it's just tediously mowing through endless hordes of monsters. I don't care that I can beat that sort of stuff, it just bores me.


Kinda my opinion. I'm not adverse to slaughterish moments in a large map, or the occasional slaughtermap in a megawad, but when there's nothing else to diversify the gameplay a bit, I lose interest.

That said, I'd rather play through hours and hours of rocket-spamming, circle-strafing tedium than even just download one of DG2000's mods.
Old Post 04-12-12 13:37 #
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Phobus
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Gez said:


I'm not adverse to slaughterish moments in a large map, or the occasional slaughtermap in a megawad, but when there's nothing else to diversify the gameplay a bit, I lose interest.

That said, I'd rather play through hours and hours of rocket-spamming, circle-strafing tedium than even just download one of DG2000's mods.

These points, I fully agree with :P I've even made a few maps where you get a big wall of enemies to fight (or a horde). That's never all there is to it though, as that wouldn't interest me as a player.
Old Post 04-12-12 13:57 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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I'm gonna end this conversation about Slaughterfest now. I decided to start the project for slaughtermappers who like to play slaughtermaps. If you don't like them, don't play them. It's as simple as that. I really don't care what you think of it in the end. It wasn't made for all you people who don't like that kind of map. So when SF2012 is released, save yourself the agony, and don't download it, don't rate, don't touch it. Leave it to the slaughter people who like that stuff to say what they think of it.

That said. I do also enjoy "normal" maps without slaughter gameplay that are hard. I think everyone enjoys a good challenge, wherever it comes from.

E: "I don't like that style map" isn't a valid reason to call something "Worst wad ever". Come up with some real reasons.

Last edited by General Rainbow Bacon on 04-12-12 at 14:41
Old Post 04-12-12 14:33 #
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