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fraggle
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Phml said:
Your position is understandable, but I don't think it's realistic for you to assume everyone shares the same view.
I, uh, never said that I assume that?


NiuHaka said:
@Fraggle:
I agree with some of that but I disagree that games should play a certain way just because they have a certain look.

Also not what I said, either. If you think that's the point I was making then you've completely misunderstood.

What I'm trying to say is that it all comes down to details. The little, subtle things that the game designers put in to give everything just the right feel.

The original question in starting this thread was, "[is there] anything to make DOOM a little bit newer?". "Newer" I interpret to mean, "like a modern game". The problem I see with this question is it presupposes a kind of shallowness in thinking - that all you need to have a "modern game" is to replace the sprites with models and upgrade the textures. In reality, to make it properly "newer" requires a vast amount more effort: everything from the level design, to the sound, gameplay, AI, etc.

That's why I said that mods like this "change Doom from being an awesome old game to a really mediocre modern game". Sure, you've changed it to something "newer" - more modern, but if you evaluate it as you would a modern game, it's just not very good.

Old Post 07-23-12 18:35 #
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Vordakk
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Here's DOOM if someone truly made it "newer".



and another one...

Old Post 07-23-12 19:09 #
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NiuHaka
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@Fraggle:
Okay. I see now. I do hope that we (The Ascension Team) are taking the kind of care that you speak of. So far we are covering everything but the sound effects. My opinion as a designer and former video game artist/modeler/animator is that the project has a wonderful sense of unity between all of the assets we are working. Admittedly those sound effects need an upgrade along with it. Just haven't found anyone interested.

Old Post 07-23-12 19:23 #
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qoncept
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I think a big part of it is the limited angles of sprites. You can pretty much instantly recognize any monster at any distance and most of the time in any light, except knights vs barons in some cases. With the 3d models I've seen that's not true at all. The colors are muted and the new perspectives possible can hide the cues that make recognition so easy.

As for Doom 3, it's not the high res textures or 3d models that make it "not Doom." What makes it not Doom is the slower gameplay, smarter and fewer monsters. Maybe id would have made the AI more capable in 1993 if they could, but they didn't, and in my mind any monster that isn't either coming toward me or attacking isn't Doom.

Old Post 07-23-12 19:29 #
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DooM_RO
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fraggle said:
I, uh, never said that I assume that?

Also not what I said, either. If you think that's the point I was making then you've completely misunderstood.

What I'm trying to say is that it all comes down to details. The little, subtle things that the game designers put in to give everything just the right feel.

The original question in starting this thread was, "[is there] anything to make DOOM a little bit newer?". "Newer" I interpret to mean, "like a modern game". The problem I see with this question is it presupposes a kind of shallowness in thinking - that all you need to have a "modern game" is to replace the sprites with models and upgrade the textures. In reality, to make it properly "newer" requires a vast amount more effort: everything from the level design, to the sound, gameplay, AI, etc.

That's why I said that mods like this "change Doom from being an awesome old game to a really mediocre modern game". Sure, you've changed it to something "newer" - more modern, but if you evaluate it as you would a modern game, it's just not very good.



I STRONGLY agree with this. Rinechard has a similar project and the levels in Doom 1 are starting to look kind of ugly. If Ascension is ever finished, it would be cool if there was a map pack made specially for Ascension? We could make the level design inspired by doom 1 but also some doom 3 stuff if you guys agree and with a few(!) cutscenes as well as some scripted events and other zdoom features like slopes and colored lighting. It could be our version of Doom 3! What do you think?




NiuHaka said:
@Fraggle:
Okay. I see now. I do hope that we (The Ascension Team) are taking the kind of care that you speak of. So far we are covering everything but the sound effects. My opinion as a designer and former video game artist/modeler/animator is that the project has a wonderful sense of unity between all of the assets we are working. Admittedly those sound effects need an upgrade along with it. Just haven't found anyone interested.



Don't worry man, you have a lot of supporters on this forum(including me), I am really impressed by your efforts, especially since you new models have some new elements in them too, I believe your mod will be a blast!

Oh and sorry for that typo

Old Post 07-23-12 19:31 #
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printz
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Ahem. Why try make Doom 1 look modern, when you can use Doom 3 instead?

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Old Post 07-23-12 19:40 #
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Clonehunter
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qoncept said:

As for Doom 3, it's not the high res textures or 3d models that make it "not Doom." What makes it not Doom is the slower gameplay, smarter and fewer monsters. Maybe id would have made the AI more capable in 1993 if they could, but they didn't, and in my mind any monster that isn't either coming toward me or attacking isn't Doom.



The Doom 3 AI was pretty much the same as normal Doom's AI. Everything just attacked and walked (or Ran) at you. I didn't really notice any other AI in the game other than shoot and approach.

Old Post 07-23-12 19:40 #
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fraggle
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NiuHaka said:
@Fraggle:
Okay. I see now. I do hope that we (The Ascension Team) are taking the kind of care that you speak of. So far we are covering everything but the sound effects. My opinion as a designer and former video game artist/modeler/animator is that the project has a wonderful sense of unity between all of the assets we are working.

I don't really know about your project at all but it sounds like a good concept: the kind of thing that's needed to do a "modernized Doom" properly.

Old Post 07-23-12 19:47 #
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idSoftware981
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40oz said:
There are plenty of various enhancement stuff around here. Some source ports feature OpenGL rendering, full mouse looking, jumping/crouching, dynamic lighting, basic shadow rendering, blood splat decals, bullet holes, particle effects, splashing water (like in Heretic and Hexen), 3D models, interpolated monster movement, hi resolution textures, music remixes, high resolution sounds, smoother sprite animations for weapons, etc.

Using most of these things will eventually make Doom look like this.

http://www.doomworld.com/vbmisc/qvid.png

Whether or not it looks good is up to your discretion. Depending on what source port you like to play with, you can have most of these things on source ports like JDoom, GZDoom, and Skulltag.

All these enhancements are made by various people and are not all bundled up in one package, so you'll probably be linked to various doom threads and forums and web pages for downloads, and deal with different installation procedures to get them all functional together. It's not too complicated if you're willing to read though. The convenient part of it though is that if you don't like certain features, it's easy to have some and not others. It'll help us get you on the right track if you mention which source port you are currently using and we can direct you where to go from there.





Kind of looks a bit like Quake 3. I'm meh on that one. If anything I have yet to see a mod that remakes DOOM 1 on DOOM 3 Engine. THE WHOLE DOOM game. The Ultimate DOOM. Not DOOM 1. Ultimate DOOM.

Old Post 07-23-12 20:58 #
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idSoftware981
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I don't mean to double post or anything. But, when I meant making DOOM a little bit newer I meant like as in high-resolution sprites. Oh and by the way I saw "If DOOM was done today" that made me laugh my ass off. Truth be told, I play a lot of different shooters.... like Wolfenstein, DOOM, Quake, Goldeneye, Hexen, Heretic, BLOOD, Duke Nukem, Half-Life, Unreal, Halo, COD, Battlefield, Serious Sam, Painkiller, etc.etc.etc. I started hating COD in 2010 because of the way the game was playing. It wasn't a game anymore. It was nothing more than an interactive cheap action film. For me I want a game to immerse me in the role of that player. Not through means of "making the graphics look pretty." or what-not. Just you know....


Anyways, back on topic... what I meant by newer was sprites updated and stuff. Also, I'm replying from a Windows 7. Yes I have a Windows 7 Home Edition at my house. I also have the latest HP monitor. No I do not have the fanciest graphics card. It's an ATI Radeon HD 4270. For some of you that might be OHHH! THAT'S SO AMAZING! For me I want to upgrade.


But anyways, is there a DOOM HD Sprites mod?! If so post a download link or a link. By the way I've been "permantly banned from ZDOOM Forums and a ban has been issued on your IP Address." So I don't know when they will stop playing the kindergarten game and forgive me already and let me back on. But uh, what do you think about DOOM 4?! I know it's WAY OFF TOPIC from my thread that I created. But I'm just asking.

Old Post 07-23-12 21:08 #
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NiuHaka
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I'll redirect you to the very first response in this thread. It is the best and only real answer to your question. To sum it up for you the answer is: No.

I was second to respond and I added to Maes' comment by informing you that the marathon sprites you mentioned were pre-rendered 3d models which means they are sprites but 3d models were used to generate them. I thought that since that was the case that you might actually be interested in some higher quality 3d models despite your comment about 3d models.

However there are the Doom 64 sprites. I'm not sure if anyone has ripped those and made them available in mod form. It might be worth it to you to search for that.

Old Post 07-23-12 21:19 #
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idSoftware981
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NiuHaka said:
I'll redirect you to the very first response in this thread. It is the best and only real answer to your question. To sum it up for you the answer is: No.

I was second to respond and I added to Maes' comment by informing you that the marathon sprites you mentioned were pre-rendered 3d models which means they are sprites but 3d models were used to generate them. I thought that since that was the case that you might actually be interested in some higher quality 3d models despite your comment about 3d models.

However there are the Doom 64 sprites. I'm not sure if anyone has ripped those and made them available in mod form. It might be worth it to you to search for that.




I am aware. If it is no, then how come there is a mod that is making the original sprites high res in (8x). You know the thing on ZDoom Forums?! Anyways, I don't mind 3D models. But until DOOM Ascension comes out... I will feel very... I don't know how to put it. Lonely, because I feel that DOOM hasn't been updated. I really want DOOM updated with modern graphics that way I can tell my friends about it, get my friends into it, and reimmerse myself in the DOOM world. ** I just realized get immersed in the Doom world... DOOMWORLD FORUMS! **

Old Post 07-23-12 21:38 #
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Maes
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idSoftware981 said:
If it is no, then how come there is a mod that is making the original sprites high res in (8x). You know the thing on ZDoom Forums?!


Read my original comments about attempts that will never get completed or taken seriously for a variety of reasons. There's actually a sad precedent regarding "high res sprite projects", for reasons too long to repeat here. But don't take my word for it, do your own research.

Edit: to make a long story short, take a look at one of the few screenshots where one of the very few completed hi-res sprites is shown in action, taken from this thread:

http://prboom-plus.sf.net/clip/2011-09-21_21.42.00.jpg

Quite honestly, they don't look any better than a good quality 3D model, and that's after the author worked his ass off to manually retouch every rotation of a single monster. And in the end you're still stuck with 8 rotations, while a model has infinite plus infinite posturing options. It just isn't worth it to work with sprites at this level.

Futhermore, they don't even represent a pure upgrade to software rendered mode: due to technical limitations, only OpenGL/hardware accelerated ports can use truecolor sprites (and don't suggest using 8-bit color on high-res sprites....) and they consume much more memory than a 3D model of comparable quality, so it's a triply pointless endeavour.

Last edited by Maes on 07-23-12 at 22:03

Old Post 07-23-12 21:46 #
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