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glenzinho
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I think we should keep on pushing ahead. One map per day surely isn't too much to ask for? The only couple of maps I've found in excess of 25 minutes were 10 & 11, and from memory most of the rest (except for 20 & 21) can be done in under 25 or 30 minutes comfortably. If people want to catch up later or drop in and out it's all good as I see it. Anyways...

MAP14: Downriver by Processing Control

Techbase theme. I like this design, it reminds of Map 05 (Installation Decrepit) in it's tech theme, which was very nice. This is a very Rocket heavy map, which ain't a bad thing, and though the monsters are heavy hitters, they are kept to a reasonable quantity. The Revs lowering out of nothing near the start of the map was very cool. There's a nice series of secrets & lifts and doors to open around the Chaingun area that I liked a lot. It added a lot of connectivity, reminding me a lot of the secrets in the later maps of Episode 1, which can only be a good thing! You have to backtrack a bit from the Red/Blue Key area to the red door, but you are never lost and there are plenty of monsters to keep you occupied on your journey. After the yellow, it's a similar journey back to the exit.

95/35/16 23:23 UV
This is one of my favourite maps of CC4. The difficulty wasn't too high, despite the higher level monsters, and really, it's just a lot of fun running around a Doom level firing off rockets. Tell me we all didn't do that when we discovered IDDQD & IDKFA back in the 90s? Only now you don't have to god mode... great fun & true Doominess!

Old Post 08-31-12 02:32 #
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Capellan
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dobugabumaru said:
So what do you guys think? Any suggestions or alternatives are welcome. I'd even consider a map per two days.


I think we just treat "1 map a day" as the max speed, and accept that other people will take longer.

(especially if there are more maps like 11)

The only thing I would suggest changing is the opening post of the thread: I don't see any issue with people playing and commenting about map01 today, or in the future.

Old Post 08-31-12 03:58 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Alright then, plan stays the same. Godspeed guys. I'll catch up to you hopefully this weekend.

Old Post 08-31-12 08:40 #
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UnholyMessias
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My thoughts on map14: Pretty cool map, nice visuals and a lot of pretty cool secrets. Difficulty was too low for me though. I kinda got bored halfway through. Nastier traps or more monsters would have been better for me. I loved the revenants coming out of the sky that was a cool touch.

Old Post 08-31-12 09:08 #
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Capellan
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Map11
I didn't much care for it.

The architecture varies from OK to very good, and there are some good set-pieces in it. A few "oh look, monsters" ones too, but on the whole all the elements were sound. However ...

It's too long. Waaaaaaaay too long. I was ready for it to be over a long, long time before it was.

Also, sticking an archvile in a secret rather defeats the purpose of having the secret, IMO.

Old Post 08-31-12 11:37 #
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Joshy
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Capellan said:
Map11...Also, sticking an archvile in a secret rather defeats the purpose of having the secret, IMO.
Definitely the longest map I've worked on. BTW, the archvile in that secret is meant to be used for the BFG secret (Christoph did that secret), so you AV jump over and grab the BFG. Not meant to be easy to get it in the first place, I guess. :-)

Old Post 08-31-12 15:27 #
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Capellan
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Map12
Quite a nice-looking watery canyon map. Got a bit tired of the "monsters teleport in on either side of you" thing, the fourth or fifth time it happened. Did enjoy the megasphere fight. That was fun.

Ammo seemed a bit in short supply, though I did fail to find any of the secrets, which won't have helped.

Old Post 08-31-12 22:27 #
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mouldy
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map 14 - I really enjoyed this one, especially the rocket launcher start. There was something very oldschool about this map, I think its the way the rooms and corridors are laid out in such an abstract fashion, strange little interconnecting bits and lifts and windows. And secrets galore, I didn't even find a 3rd of them. There was a switch you could shoot that opened a door that I never found, a window into a corridor I couldn't get to, a hole in the wall that started some kind of thumping device that I couldn't fathom the reason to.. This is the kind of doom map I sometimes see in my dreams where I'm running around a maze-like base stumbling on secret doors to mysterious rooms.

It was also loaded with chunky monsters and was a nice challenge without being too over the top. Good solid fun.

Old Post 08-31-12 22:45 #
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glenzinho
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Getting in early because I'm off for the weekend.

MAP15: Decomposition by Lord Z

Well for a start, this map has excellent music! Die! By my hand! I creep across the land, killing first born man... Motherfucker Die! I used to play Doom with METALICA.WAD all the time in the 90s... I absolutely love Creeping Death, still one of the funnest and kick ass songs to play on the guitar of all time for mine.... what are we doing here again? Oh, of course, there's a map to play... Another techbase themed map, this time into a mountain, with a couple of highways thrown in for good measure. There is a section in the map which is a nukage room that has bridges you have to raise in sections to get through. I understand there was discussion in the CC4 thread about this, but personally I found it to be a clever idea. The detail in some areas are exquisite: pipes, outside area with crates & crane, control tower, all fantastic. One thing I found odd: the forcefields don't block you or damage you in anyway, so I wonder what they are for or if they are just for design? I noticed that monsters don't pass through them (even though you or they could go around the field). The projectiles do pass through, however. Is it to keep monsters out? The sewer system was brief and well done. I have no idea what the stairs to the roof are for here. Can Boom trickery make this sector slide over like a hatch? I won't go into detail on how to find the secret exit, but I will hint that you need a key for a start.

99/100/100 21:21 UV (and secret exit)
Just an awesome map. I'm happy that the method to the secret level is not some extremely convoluted idea that you wouldn't even have a hope in hell to find without opening up an editor or jumping on the net to find out.

Old Post 09-01-12 00:55 #
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Capellan
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Map13
I really, really enjoyed this. It looked nice, there were plenty of cool fights, and the all rocket/plasma gameplay made a nice change of pace.

Old Post 09-01-12 07:39 #
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gun_psycho
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Map13 - The only part I didn't like was the fact that if you mess up on the exit platform part, the crushers stay down, and the level's unwinnable at that point. Other than that, it was fun.

Map14 - It was quite a challenge to get reoriented, but it almost took me half-an-hour to beat it.

Map15 - This one was pretty interesting, especially how you have to get the secret exit, which I didn't find too hard. Still, not spoiling it.

Since I'm playing EVERY level to the end, I'll cover the two secret levels before I cover Map16.

Old Post 09-01-12 09:49 #
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The Green Herring
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gun_psycho said:
Map13 - The only part I didn't like was the fact that if you mess up on the exit platform part, the crushers stay down, and the level's unwinnable at that point.
Spoiler:
You can press on the crushers to open them. Unless your source port doesn't let you...

EDIT (2:02 AM PDT): ...except it only works in PrBoom+. Damn it! Guess that secret's going to have to be removed.

Last edited by The Green Herring on 09-01-12 at 10:02

Old Post 09-01-12 09:57 #
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kaihoisa
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Map14

Yeah, this was fun enough. Following on a bit from the last level, you're going to be using your rockets a lot. Didn't take too long, and there weren't any really challenging segments.

Someone above mentioned secrets - I couldn't work out what that shoot switch did either. The other secret around that area on a lift put me right in front of an arachnotron, which was nice.

There was this, too - I don't know what this was all about :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIJyRKc4jGE

The exit trap was easier than it looked, maybe it needed a monster or two from a different angle?

Overall, a decent level, enjoyed it.

Old Post 09-01-12 10:48 #
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kaihoisa
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MAP15

Nice looking based themed level. Wasn't a drag or anything, but I played this about an hour ago and I can't remember much of it at all.

The difficulty of the last few levels seems to have dropped dramatically, not that I'm complaining.

I couldn't find the secret exit after a fair while searching, had to look for it in DoomBuilder - I wouldn't have found that red key if I was there all day, seemed to be a 'hump everywhere' job.

Forcefields seemed to be a visual effect more than anything, though they did keep lost souls out.

Nothing else to say about it really, roll on the secret level!

Old Post 09-01-12 16:46 #
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gun_psycho
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When I do get around to beating the two secret levels, I'll definitely post them in detail once I get around to them, and I have a very good feeling the supersecret level's gonna be quite a doozy.

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot about the part that Map14 also had a fuckton of secrets...and yeah, some of them were a pain in the ass to figure out. The rest of them weren't too bad.

Last edited by gun_psycho on 09-01-12 at 19:41

Old Post 09-01-12 19:32 #
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Capellan
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Map14
Good map. Consistently solid rather than having any truly standout moments that made me go "that's cool!", but there's nothing wrong with solid work.

Techbase theme was nicely done, and the level had plenty of nooks and crannies to poke around in. Some of the encounters felt a bit like 'padding' though: the mancubi guarding the blue key door weren't threatening at all, merely hit point sacks to eat up your rockets, and the arachnotron guarding the yellow key was similarly harmless.

Once I had the yellow key I just bolted straight to the exit, ignoring the various monsters that had been released. One last ambush, this one with at least some actual teeth, and the level was done.

Level 7 remains far more brutal than anything (other than maybe level 10) to come since, and feels more and more out of place, difficulty-wise.

Old Post 09-01-12 22:45 #
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Capellan
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Map15
Did not find the secret exit (actually, didn't even look for it - completely forgot about the fact that there would be one on this level!).

Level itself was good, but nothing very memorable. Competent techbase, mostly, with a sewer section for some variety. Quite a few very steep stairs, which would have been annoying if they had monsters at the top or bottom, but fortunately there was none of that.


Map16
Ugh.

Last edited by Capellan on 09-02-12 at 06:49

Old Post 09-02-12 02:48 #
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LordK
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Capellan said:

Map16
Ugh.


What.

Map16 was a pretty neat arena style level. Nice detailing and abstract, Doomy architecture. Some parts felt a little cramped and awkward though.

Old Post 09-02-12 12:45 #
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Crusader No Regret
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Posting delays due to random internet failure and being distracted by "ooh, shiny."

Anyways, Map 13
pistol start on UV, 1 death, completed on second attempt

It's not that hard, I just got sloppy. A no damage run seems very doable with the spiderdemon most likely to ruin such an attempt and it's early.
Difficulty takes a breather for a fun, fast paced blastfest. Well, I still let infighting do some dirty work when I played through. Reminded me of map 31 of Speed of Doom with the rocket launcher and plasma gun at the start and plenty of ammo for both. Great use of spectres and it's the player's own fault for shooting one point blank with a rocket. Didn't find secret but still got 100% kills.

Old Post 09-02-12 22:14 #
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glenzinho
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/EDIT: This post somehow came through incomplete the first time. Please delete!

Old Post 09-03-12 00:53 #
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glenzinho
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Just touching on a few maps briefly today.

MAP31: Mortar Combat by Forty-Two
Expect some pretty heavy combat in this one. The problem I had with this map was the use of the pretty much the same brick texture throughout the entire map. Compared to the other maps in CC4, this looked a little empty. It also made figuring out where you were in the level more disorientating, and not in a good way. I know where the super secret exit is but I couldn't find the last two switches to access it. Not much fun.

MAP32: Mutare by Jeff Nordin
I liked this one a lot. Starting with just a pistol after the insta-death of the super secret exit was an interesting challenge as I like to play continuously. This map is a warped masterpiece. Difficulty is very high and there are some hard battles, but what I loved about this map was the way the level changed all the time. Theme wise it is a glorious mish-mash that just somehow works. Starting off in pretty cramped environs, it is a wonderful thing to see by the end how everything has opened up. Excellent map.

MAP16: The Forgotten Base by Keeper of Jericho
I'm not a huge fan of slaughter type maps by any means, even a small sized one like this, but I don't understand all the hate this one has gotten. I found it to be reasonably enjoyable, although the swarm of enemies can get tedious at times. I had no trouble with the "pole running" either, as I'd cleared out the available enemies each time before I did them. Maybe this should have been a secret map?

Old Post 09-03-12 00:54 #
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kaihoisa
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Map31

This was difficult, but I couldn't put my finger on why. Everything was completely fair, but any carelessness is punished. The map 'came together' nicely as you progressed.

Visually it was pretty basic, but each area was recognisable enough. I started to roll my eyes after the 5th time I pressed a switch to see an archvile right in my face, but there's plenty of plasma if you can't be bothered with those fights. You think there were enough revenants at the end there? I don't know if you were supposed to fight them all in that room, but I just scuttled away into some space and picked them off.

I didn't get to the secret exit, but I'm guessing it's behind that stone face near the exit. I'm assume that
Spoiler:
that'll disappear when you press all the other face switches in the level, but there's one in plain view near the start I couldn't reach.
. I can't straferun to it, so I take it you need to archvile jump there (right?), which is a pain in the arse cos i killed all the archviles. Will probably noclip it when I come back.

Decent enough map, some nice battles, but I found it a little frustrating at times. Good level design - a good challenge without starving the player of ammo or teleporting 5 revenants in his face.

Old Post 09-03-12 01:10 #
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Capellan
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My issues with map16 (since you asked; or even if you didn't) can mostly be traced back to the type of map it is.

Not so much the slaughter aspect. The arena aspect. I don't like arena levels. Here's why:

Dull architecture. It's a big square with some small squares dotted about for cover, and some extra squares tacked onto the edges to house the switches you need to hit. This dull layout leads to the second issue.

Dull visuals. This is not the same as undetailed or badly textured. But the map is lacking in any 'wow cool' vistas or moments. The look is functional, but not interesting or evocative.

Dull gameplay. Kill monsters. Flick switch. Kill monsters. Repeat ad nauseum. Now sure, you can say that'd true of any Doom level, but in most levels you end up facing different monsters in different locations. You have to adapt your strategy to the situation. In arena levels, you fight in the same location. Over and over and over and oh god why won't it end?

No sense of immersion. Abstract architecture is fine. Doom's engine does not lend itself to photorealistic environments. But for me, good Doom levels still feel "real", in the sense that you have the impression of being somewhere that might exist. This level (and levels like it) clearly exists solely to be a video game level. It feels fake and contrived. (and yes, I do dislike most of the stock levels in Doom 2 for exactly this reason)

Now it's quite possible that other people played this level and enjoyed it. Which is great for them. But my reaction to this, and other levels like it, will always be "Ugh".

Old Post 09-03-12 01:11 #
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glenzinho
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Capellan said:
Things about Map 16


All good and fair points, however it's each to his own. Doom has enough scope for a wide variety of settings and gameplay types, so while one map in 32 isn't going to break the whole set, at the same time I wouldn't like to see more of this type of level in the same set. One is enough.

Old Post 09-03-12 01:24 #
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stewboy
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kaihoisa said:
I take it you need to archvile jump there (right?)


There are no archvile jumps that you need to make in this level.

Old Post 09-03-12 01:37 #
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Capellan
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glenzinho said:
All good and fair points, however it's each to his own.


Of course. That's why I said it was quite possible for other people to enjoy the level, even though I didn't :)

Old Post 09-03-12 01:42 #
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BloodyAcid
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MAP16: I played this with Epic Tom on Zan the other day, then took a bit to complete it myself.

The first few times I attempted this level, I was unaware of the roman numerals indicating the building order, which is why I always died from the archviles. The general level is lackluster, as it involves constant returns to the safezone for ammo and health. Also, there was wayyy too much armor. (1 megasphere, 2 blue armor)

Old Post 09-03-12 02:20 #
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UnholyMessias
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Map31: Probably my favourite map untill now, awesome difficulty and really nice texturing. I didnt mind everything being in the same texture, it felt more coherent for me. I loved the part where all the revenants teleport in.
Map32: Didnt particurly like this map, the changing scenery gimmick is cool but the map otherwise is kind of ugly and with the extremely confusing layout it makes for a average map for me.
Map16: I really liked this map for being something different from the previous maps. A bit of slaughter gameplay is never bad, especially for speedrunning this is a really good map. Cool visuals too. I also dont understand the complaining about the pole running sequences, it seemed really easy?

Old Post 09-03-12 09:16 #
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Capellan
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Map17
Fun 'arcade style' level. Again, not much sense of a real place, but a good variety of locations and tactical situations. Towards the end it did feel a little padded. Two areas were quite similar, and then there was a long switch flicking process to end things, but I had so much fun with the first half of the level that I didn't really care.

Old Post 09-03-12 09:56 #
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LordK
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Map17: this map was exquisitely crafted, in my opinion one of the best looking maps in CC4. It's too bad that the gameplay wasn't quite up to the same standard. It wasn't bad by any means, but there was this slow plodding feel to it, exacerbated by the music and the symmetry of the map.

Old Post 09-03-12 21:42 #
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