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LakiSoft
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Did anybody tried to make a gamemix? I mean Heretic with HeXen monsters or vice verse. Or maybe Doom with Heretic monster or Strife and Duke3D monsters. I want to see any project like that. :) In past at 2010 i was making HeRen : The Zedek's tower which is supposed to be Hexen with Heretic monsters but it's gone. :((( Also i tried to make Strifetic but that also are gone. I also planed to make Strifetic agian. So is there any mods which presents a game mix? :)

Old Post 09-17-12 19:20 #
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Eris Falling
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WolfenDoom
Duke meets Doom (I have a sideproject too of putting Plutonia into DN3D)
Classic Doom 3
Super Mario Doom

There's a lot more too, but thats as many as I can recall.

Old Post 09-17-12 19:34 #
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LakiSoft
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Is Duke Meets Doom unfinished? If i wrong is there any download link?
P.S. Guys when i got more good mapping skills i will make Strifetic again and it will be more better than first version. :D

Old Post 09-17-12 19:39 #
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ComicMischief
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I'm wondering; and this is off-topic, arguably a better topic than the one started (creative though it may be); if there have been many attempts to make completely-new games with the Doom engine. I'm pretty sure there should have been since the source was released, but off the top of my head, I got nothing.

Except Skulltag, but it's so Doom it doesn't count.

Old Post 09-17-12 19:57 #
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Gez
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Man it's like what half of the imaginationless kids are doing on ZDoom. There's been far too much of those.

A few that aren't too bad and actually deserve some mention: Samsara, Aeons of Death (if only for the sheer absurd quantity of stuff), Hordes of Chaos, Resurrection of Chaos, Necrosis.


ComicMischief said:
I'm wondering; and this is off-topic, arguably a better topic than the one started (creative though it may be); if there have been many attempts to make completely-new games with the Doom engine. I'm pretty sure there should have been since the source was released, but off the top of my head, I got nothing.


Harmony, Urban Brawl, Chex Quest 3, Foreverhood, and most of Lil White Mouse's production, such as Chibi Rebellion.

Old Post 09-17-12 20:02 #
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wesleyjohnson
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See the home pages of the Advanced Ports for special wads that use 3D and other linedefs, DEH or other, and scripting.
In DoomLegacy: Twilight (special-ops sim), Phobia (mystical, dark, puzzle, doom-weapons), All the Chex stuff including Chex-NewLevels (Chex world, non-violent weapons).

Old Post 09-17-12 22:01 #
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dethstriken
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Still a little off topic, but is there an RPG edition of doom?

Old Post 09-18-12 00:27 #
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Springy
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dethstriken said:
Still a little off topic, but is there an RPG edition of doom?

There are quite a few mods with RPG elements in them. I don't think the RPG edition came out on PC though if that's what you're asking. Might I suggest this little mod? Might be something of interest for you http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=33292 it's still in development but gives Doom some RPG elements.

Old Post 09-18-12 08:39 #
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Maes
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Isn't that exactly what every ZDoom script kiddie with OCD and ADD does? Throwing in 100 bestiary and ripped-off monsters in some 100-meg ZDoom abomination, and then FORCEFULLY and PAINFULLY shoving it down our throat?

Old Post 09-18-12 12:17 #
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Eris Falling
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Do I detect DMCHOSHO references Maes? :D

Old Post 09-18-12 15:40 #
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scalliano
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Maes said:
Isn't that exactly what every ZDoom script kiddie with OCD and ADD does? Throwing in 100 bestiary and ripped-off monsters in some 100-meg ZDoom abomination, and then FORCEFULLY and PAINFULLY shoving it down our throat?


What? I haven't updated Shuffle in months :P

Besides, it still hasn't broken 50MB, so there :P

Old Post 09-18-12 18:08 #
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Clonehunter
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Maes said:
Isn't that exactly what every ZDoom script kiddie with OCD and ADD does? Throwing in 100 bestiary and ripped-off monsters in some 100-meg ZDoom abomination, and then FORCEFULLY and PAINFULLY shoving it down our throat?


Aeons of Death?

Old Post 09-18-12 21:24 #
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fraggle
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Most attempts to do things like this usually end up as a horrible mash of clashing styles that doesn't make any sense. There are a bunch of mods that have done this sort of thing and they're all basically shit.

Mixing Heretic/Hexen resources is the one thing that obviously works because there's a consistent theme to them. You might be able to get away with selectively importing a few individual bits from one game into another - like an individual weapon or monster. Other than that, the only way I can imagine something like this working is if the differences were incorporated into the storyline somehow. For example, imagine a "sliders" style mod where you travel through portals between game universes. That could actually be kind of neat - kind of like a Space Quest IV approach.

Old Post 09-19-12 01:54 #
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LakiSoft
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I also planed something like that. :)

Old Post 09-19-12 13:26 #
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scalliano
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Posting this here as it's relevant:
http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34094

Shit just got fucking UGLY.

Old Post 09-19-12 21:45 #
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rabidrage
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What I would love to see is some kind of mod that mixes the best attributes of every game made on the Doom engine, aka one that pushes it absolutely as far as it can go. One which represents a sort of divergent evolution, and shows what would have happened if Carmack never made Id Tech 2 or beyond.

I don't know much, but I do know these few things. Heretic brought looking up and down and flight (which are pretty moot as long as you're using a source port) and rushing water that can push you along. Playstation and Doom 64 brought colored lighting, Doom 64 by itself brought hi-res sprites and pseudo room-over-room effects, as well as triggered traps like flying darts and enemies porting in from nowhere.

Take other games and throw their tweaks in with that stuff, and how good would the finished product be?

Old Post 10-30-12 20:49 #
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Clonehunter
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scalliano said:
Posting this here as it's relevant:
http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34094

Shit just got fucking UGLY.



Wow, that just looks so fucking retarded in every wa--

> it's Italian

Oh that makes sense.

Old Post 10-30-12 21:46 #
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EvilNed01
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I played an old wad called Herian back in the 90's that had some mish mash of enemies and weapons.

Old Post 10-30-12 22:40 #
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Phobus
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Gez said:
Man it's like what half of the imaginationless kids are doing on ZDoom. There's been far too much of those.

A few that aren't too bad and actually deserve some mention: Samsara, Aeons of Death (if only for the sheer absurd quantity of stuff), Hordes of Chaos, Resurrection of Chaos, Necrosis.



Harmony, Urban Brawl, Chex Quest 3, Foreverhood, and most of Lil White Mouse's production, such as Chibi Rebellion.


Virus as well :(

Old Post 10-30-12 23:26 #
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SweatyGremlins
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omg why I never heard of Chibi Rebellion

ITS SO SWEET!

Old Post 10-31-12 00:18 #
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Sarcose
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rabidrage said:
What I would love to see is some kind of mod that mixes the best attributes of every game made on the Doom engine, aka one that pushes it absolutely as far as it can go. One which represents a sort of divergent evolution, and shows what would have happened if Carmack never made Id Tech 2 or beyond.

(stuff about games and stuff)



Pretty much everything you mentioned is now moot with source ports -- Doom and 2 are capable of everything Heretic/Hexen are capable of, and beyond, with the right source ports.

However, I understand your basic premise: mix the best of all games. Arguably though it would be hard to do so - the best of Heretic may not fit in Doom (Doom and 2 are carefully balanced in pickups, whereas Heretic relies on random drops and a carryable inventory. Both systems encourage remarkably different playstyles), the best of Hexen may not fit in either (Hexen has a tiny bestiary specifically because it is more of an atmospheric puzzler. Kind of like Zork, in the Doom engine, on crack. Doom's puzzles are puzzling enough at times).

Honestly I think the game stands alone with the features it has. Doom would have been designed differently if id had attempted to place an inventory system, flight, and put-together weapons in it. Then it wouldn't feel like Doom. TBH I have looked at the modding scene for Doom and thought, "What is missing?" and I believe nothing. Not to say there aren't more ways to innovate. But I think improving on the original Doom formula is unnecessary.

There are supposedly some Heretic mods (HPack and the community mod in the thread in WADs) that will improve the game - that game does need improving. And Hexen could do with a beefed up bestiary, without getting ridiculous (but as for a version without puzzles, the Hexen expansion by id is a good example of what that would be like), and perhaps an improved weapons system (both Heretic and Hexen have a "snowball" style weapon balance, where later weapons are stronger than earlier weapons. Hexen compounds the problem with this balance by introducing exponential same ammo use, to the point where if you use your ultimate weapon you waste your other weapons and have to go back to your base).

So in conclusion I don't think Doom needs anything specific from the modders - just more of the same awesomeness that they continually put out. I don't think there is some hidden holy grail formula of change that would suddenly blast off and be amazing. But I do think Heretic and Hexen could both stand to see some "completionist" improvements - bestiary and weapons enhancements that keep within the flavor of the original game while bringing it to the same gameplay depth as Doom. They don't feel as versatile as their predecessor to be very certain, even though they have awesome things like flying and an inventory. But when you look at the theory behind the items and the weapons you can see that the items are good precisely because the weapons lack variety. They do not deepen gameplay other than making it harder for mappers to plan how players could react.

Old Post 10-31-12 02:07 #
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SweatyGremlins
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But you could get cool crossovers

Doom vs Hexen! You know like the old Dracula vs Wolfman movies.

Actually, I played a bit of Heretic with Real Guns Hardcore and it worked strangely well. You take on magic and sorcery with guns and explosives. After I finish homework I'm gonna load it up again to celebrate.

"fuck you magic spells, I have shotgun!"

Old Post 10-31-12 03:17 #
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hex11
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Search for "HereDoom" (website is "The Realm of the Archon") - it's basically the first 10 maps of Heretic (with monsters, textures, etc.) in MBF DOOM Engine. You get to keep your guns, but everything else is Heretic. Runs okay in PrBoom...

The same dude also made a DOOM/Strife mod, and "The Patchwork Empire" medley map.

Some DOOM maps in /idgames also use Heretic textures, and even sometimes a few monsters (but usually just cosmetic changes). Example: The Invaders (1995, 6 levels for DOOM II). These can end up looking pretty nice, because the castle and dungeon themes work just as well as techbase and hellish environments.

But if you start mixing up the DOOM and Heretic monsters together, it might end up strange. The demons, imps and barons would probably be okay in Heretic, but the dudes with guns and other high-tech weapons, not so much. I guess you could modify the cyberdemon's sprite so it looks like he's steam-powered instead of advanced machinery, and also equip him with old school cannon instead of rocket launcher. Stuff like that might work... And using the Heretic monsters in hellish or other non-techbase environments would probably work too. I think it could be done tastefully if you put some thought in it (actual design, not random hodge-podge of stuff).

Old Post 10-31-12 03:51 #
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Sarcose
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SweatyGremlins said:
But you could get cool crossovers

Doom vs Hexen! You know like the old Dracula vs Wolfman movies.

Actually, I played a bit of Heretic with Real Guns Hardcore and it worked strangely well. You take on magic and sorcery with guns and explosives. After I finish homework I'm gonna load it up again to celebrate.

"fuck you magic spells, I have shotgun!"



You need to look up ZDoom wars my friend. And play it with me, because I can never find a game.

Old Post 10-31-12 04:51 #
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Belial
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Gez said:
most of Lil White Mouse's production, such as Chibi Rebellion.

Power Dolls was my fav.

Old Post 10-31-12 07:47 #
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rabidrage
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Sarcose said:


Pretty much everything you mentioned is now moot with source ports -- Doom and 2 are capable of everything Heretic/Hexen are capable of, and beyond, with the right source ports.

However, I understand your basic premise: mix the best of all games. Arguably though it would be hard to do so - the best of Heretic may not fit in Doom (Doom and 2 are carefully balanced in pickups, whereas Heretic relies on random drops and a carryable inventory. Both systems encourage remarkably different playstyles), the best of Hexen may not fit in either (Hexen has a tiny bestiary specifically because it is more of an atmospheric puzzler. Kind of like Zork, in the Doom engine, on crack. Doom's puzzles are puzzling enough at times).

Honestly I think the game stands alone with the features it has. Doom would have been designed differently if id had attempted to place an inventory system, flight, and put-together weapons in it. Then it wouldn't feel like Doom. TBH I have looked at the modding scene for Doom and thought, "What is missing?" and I believe nothing. Not to say there aren't more ways to innovate. But I think improving on the original Doom formula is unnecessary.

There are supposedly some Heretic mods (HPack and the community mod in the thread in WADs) that will improve the game - that game does need improving. And Hexen could do with a beefed up bestiary, without getting ridiculous (but as for a version without puzzles, the Hexen expansion by id is a good example of what that would be like), and perhaps an improved weapons system (both Heretic and Hexen have a "snowball" style weapon balance, where later weapons are stronger than earlier weapons. Hexen compounds the problem with this balance by introducing exponential same ammo use, to the point where if you use your ultimate weapon you waste your other weapons and have to go back to your base).

So in conclusion I don't think Doom needs anything specific from the modders - just more of the same awesomeness that they continually put out. I don't think there is some hidden holy grail formula of change that would suddenly blast off and be amazing. But I do think Heretic and Hexen could both stand to see some "completionist" improvements - bestiary and weapons enhancements that keep within the flavor of the original game while bringing it to the same gameplay depth as Doom. They don't feel as versatile as their predecessor to be very certain, even though they have awesome things like flying and an inventory. But when you look at the theory behind the items and the weapons you can see that the items are good precisely because the weapons lack variety. They do not deepen gameplay other than making it harder for mappers to plan how players could react.



You seem to understand how I think. I like that. I've been a student of the divergent evolution of Doom ever since I got my first copy--for the SNES. Don't hate, it's almost all I had at the time. When my friend, with the PC version, insisted his was better, I started picking up other versions. Now, when I look at the consoles, PC Doom clones and modding community, I see a complex web of exchanging ideas which has made Doom a game which has experienced seamless evolution through the years...unlike Doom 3, a situation in which they might as well have said "Let's do it all from scratch". Granted, the tech and engine were state-of-the-art...but I'm not feeling the love.

Old Post 11-07-12 01:03 #
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SweatyGremlins
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wow, ZDoom wars sounds epic

this thread is the best thing ever, must be so many epic mods out there outside of Cacowards

Old Post 11-07-12 03:38 #
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Sarcose
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rabidrage said:


You seem to understand how I think. I like that. I've been a student of the divergent evolution of Doom ever since I got my first copy--for the SNES. Don't hate, it's almost all I had at the time. When my friend, with the PC version, insisted his was better, I started picking up other versions. Now, when I look at the consoles, PC Doom clones and modding community, I see a complex web of exchanging ideas which has made Doom a game which has experienced seamless evolution through the years...unlike Doom 3, a situation in which they might as well have said "Let's do it all from scratch". Granted, the tech and engine were state-of-the-art...but I'm not feeling the love.



I think a good project would be, instead of trying to improve Doom, TC it into a Doom homage with much of the same but a different approach. Essentially, find a new way to diverge its design.

Old Post 11-07-12 06:29 #
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rabidrage
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I know that's been done to some small extent, because I've seen E1M1 in Doom 3 and other more modern shooters. But I would contend that that would be a break from the unbroken thread of evolution through the years. I view Absolution as a great example--a game over 10 years in the making if you have the right mods for it.

JagDoom was a modified version of the Doom engine ported to Jaguar by Carmack himself. Playstation Doom was based on JagDoom, and then Doom 64 used Playstation Doom features, but also altered the game in still more ways. Then source ports began to appear, Doomsday was created and the TC was made for it, using the best of both, plus original monsters and levels from the creator of the TC himself, which then grew into whole add-on level sets with even more monsters and new items as well. Following that, someone made an HD weapon pack for the TC, and someone else made the Monster Remix mod. One game, and many iterations in which it just keeps getting better.

Old Post 11-08-12 18:34 #
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rabidrage
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I even missed a couple steps. JagDoom was releasee before The Ultimate Doom and Doom II, and thus had nothing from Doom II except some textures, and no levels frm Thy Flesh Consumed. So PSX Doom was a cross between JagDoom, Ultimate Doom and Doom II, with some original elements thrown in. THEN the rest followed from there.

Old Post 11-12-12 17:29 #
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