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Angus Thermopyle
Member

Posts: 370
Registered: 05-03

I just sent my comments to Ryback.

Finally some other words:

Probably these are my last demos I recorded for Doom (of course I'll never stop to watch demos - it entertains me too much :). I have a new computer (a much better one than my old P150), so now it's time to play all the games I have missed in the last years (Diablo II, WarCraft III, Wizardry 8 and so on - and all of them can keep you busy for months).
Perhaps I need only a vacation from Doom and from playing it day in day out (I think a map like HR2 Map17 can cure of this), so I don't know if these are REALLY my last demos, and perhaps we'll see us again when Scythe II is released. But for now I must say "Goodbye"!

Angus

PS. Opulent, sorry that I haven't made the Scythe movies I promised :(

Last edited by Angus Thermopyle on 02-19-04 at 09:45

02-19-04 09:22 #

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DEMOn
Forum Regular

Posts: 562
Registered: 09-02

Angus Thermopyle said:
I just sent my comments to Ryback.

Finally some other words:

Probably these are my last demos I recorded for Doom (of course I'll never stop to watch demos - it entertains me too much :). I have a new computer (a much better one than my old P150), so now it's time to play all the games I have missed in the last years (Diablo II, WarCraft III, Wizardry 8 and so on - and all of them can keep you busy for months).
Perhaps I need only a vacation from Doom and from playing it day in day out (I think a map like HR2 Map17 can cure of this), so I don't know if these are REALLY my last demos, and perhaps we'll see us again when Scythe II is released. But for now I must say "Goodbye"!

Angus

PS. Opulent, sorry that I haven't made the Scythe movies I promised :(

Great to hear you got a new computer... terribly sad news that you will stop recording DOOM. :(
as for the Scythe demos, no problem... hopefully, that will be something that temps you back to a real game. =P
Good luck and have fun!

02-19-04 09:59 #

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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member

Posts: 1927
Registered: 11-03

After watching Vincent's map 15 demo, I can safely say that all those months of slacking off hasn't had the least negative impact. ;-)

A brilliant run of a map I consider to be one of the hardest in HR2. What Vincent considers to be "careful" playing is just mind-boggling...

Some comments on the pack overall... These maps of course generally make for great max runs, and I'm not lying when I say I think this pack consists solely of entertaining demos. I don't know how you did it, but you did it. I guess it's partly appreciating the talent behind the runs, as you're inclined to do when thinking about how much you've struggled yourself to get through and then watch someone else handle the same situations with perfect calm and efficiency, but it also has to do, I believe, with the fact that these maps have that hard-to-find quality of gameplay which makes watching demos of them as fun as playing them. I may be hallucinating, but as I watched some of the runs through again, it seemed to me it really shone through that the recording player was truly enjoying the run... having fun! This is quite different from many COMPET-N demos where it's more a matter of optimizing a given route in a given run.* The quality then is IMO slightly higher but OTOH there's seldom time for funky stuff, surprises, and the slight uncontrollability of a map that hasn't been entirely conquered yet in terms of strategy, weapon usage, monster handling, etc. leading to unexpected situations. It's uncharted territory.

* = Before you flame me ;-), let me explain. I get the impression that it's a sort of masochism - suffering through hours and hours of swearing, screaming, and failing on trying to squeeze out an extra second on an already very good run to beat an existing record... and enjoying the process! (This might be because of the pleasing end result, but what do I know)

So, anyways, to sum up, I want to give all the players who recorded (even those who didn't make it into the pack, like Sergey and Erik) a standing ovation for giving me and other non-gods hours of the best possible entertainment, completely free! *promptly does so*

EDIT: *Sniff* 250 posts -- finally! *sniff sniff* I never gave up hope... I wanna thank Jesus, my mom and dad, and say hi to my special lady. We did it, baby! WE DID IT!!! Whoo! Whooooo!

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 02-22-04 at 22:29

02-19-04 11:57 #

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Eugene
Junior Member

Posts: 109
Registered: 11-03

Just now my brother mentioned me that one imp near the red bar was left in h215 max.

02-19-04 12:25 #

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Ryback
Member

Posts: 370
Registered: 06-01

Yep, there's one missed monster. I don't know how he got down there, maybe his corpse slid off the ledge and an archie revived him. You can't knock injured imps off a ledge in vanilla Doom, can you?

Hmmm... I know some demopacks have been released knowingly with some monsters not killed (the first Requiem pack springs to mind), the demo was recorded with Prboom (?) so need to worry about c-n rules, the monster might have been resurrected, it's a cool demo anyway, we've already called the pack closed...

Eh, screw it. I'm making an executive decision. Release pack as is. Unless you maybe want to give it another try, Vince?

02-19-04 13:21 #

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ukiro
That's Bjorling with two funky dots over the o

Posts: 112
Registered: 11-02

Ryback said:
Eh, screw it. I'm making an executive decision. Release pack as is. Unless you maybe want to give it another try, Vince?

...or could someone break out the walkcam thingamajig in eternity and have a look?

02-19-04 13:27 #

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Grazza
Inventor of "Y Y" to quit

Posts: 11784
Registered: 07-02

ukiro said:
...or could someone break out the walkcam thingamajig in eternity and have a look?

It does look like the imp was resurrected. The resurrection occurs about 9:20 into the demo, around coordinates (-60, -3260). I think the imp corpse was at the very edge of the walkway (it hadn't fallen off), and fell off immediately upon being resurrected. Perhaps someone could confirm that - I was watching a different imp corpse (one that had been knocked off the walkway) at the time it happened, so am not 100% certain that was the exact course of events.

02-19-04 14:19 #

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Ryback
Member

Posts: 370
Registered: 06-01

Yes. An imp gets killed right on the very edge of a ledge; Archie resurrects him; imp slips down ledge into lava pit.

So it is a 100% kills demo, there's just a resurrected monster alive at the end.

Edit: Yep Grazza, that's the one. Incidentally, is there a consensus on whether leaving alive resurrected monsters would disqualify a c-n demo? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules about this.

02-19-04 14:21 #

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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member

Posts: 1927
Registered: 11-03

I thought the rules were clear? There must be no monsters alive when you exit (if there is a way to kill them, of course. Some maps have monsters outside the playing field or that don't teleport in, etc). The only exception is Lost Souls.

Even Adam H himself (scroll down a bit) has said that "everything except Lost Souls must be dead before you exit".

EDIT: Rephrased a bit.

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 02-19-04 at 15:30

02-19-04 15:09 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

hmm, I recorded this demo with prboom 2.2.4 -complevel 0. The monster kill count was over the total monsters when I exited. So it sounded normal to me since some monsters will inevitably be resurrected.

Unfortunately prBoom does not show the alive monsters like timer.exe does... and under WinXP timer.exe says 'f*** you'.

I guess I could send you some of my slower runs for checking... I have a 16:56, a 18:12 and 2 or 3 othes. I hope at least one of these is ok :)

If you give me a couple days I can try to record a new demo. Maybe over the weekend, coz I am a bit sick and don't feel very good.
That mistake taught me a good lesson : use eternity walk cam next time :)

02-19-04 15:58 #

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Grazza
Inventor of "Y Y" to quit

Posts: 11784
Registered: 07-02

Ryback said:
Incidentally, is there a consensus on whether leaving alive resurrected monsters would disqualify a c-n demo? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules about this.

The rules as stated at c-n ("...killing every monster at least once, except lost souls...") strike me as a bit ambiguous, but I think a lawyer reading them would conclude that it is OK to leave resurrected monsters alive. Clearly that isn't AdamH's interpretation (in which case it would make sense for him to reword the c-n rules for clarity).

Since this isn't a c-n demopack, I'd think that Ryback (as project leader) should have final say. Of course, the rules weren't described in detail at the outset, and it could have been taken as read that c-n rules (and c-n interpretations, arguably?) should apply.

...in other words, I dunno. :p

Personally, I'm not offended by that imp being left alive, since it is a Max demo according to one valid interpretation of one well-known version of the standard rules. And I like the demo very much. :)

02-19-04 17:45 #

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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member

Posts: 1927
Registered: 11-03

Grazza said:
Personally, I'm not offended by that imp being left alive, since it is a Max demo according to one valid interpretation of one well-known version of the standard rules. And I like the demo very much. :)

Very well put, Graham. I completely second that. For what it's worth, I don't care about the "imp that got away". The demo is so good I find it hard to believe anyone cares much... Hehe, another way to see it is that one monster was spared to tell the gruesome tale of the killer marine from Mars! ;-)

02-19-04 18:41 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

So, let's wait for Chris opinion on that...
Let me know if this demo is accepted, if I have to send you some of my slower runs or even redo a demo.
I don't mind the later, the current demo has quite some glitches. But that would delay the release of the pack.

And personally dont feel good about leaving an incomplete demo, especially that's the only one I have :)

If someone could hack prboom and add a 'X alive monsters' counter, that would be great !

I leave the decision to the teamleader or to the vote of other teammates...

02-19-04 19:19 #

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AdamW
Junior Member

Posts: 179
Registered: 09-00

i vote it gets redone. i'd volunteer to do it only i'm buggering off to canada for six weeks tomorrow morning, so no chance of that :). having things incomplete just bugs me. the compet-n rules are pretty clear; the issue has come up before and adamh has clearly stated that, as far as compet-n is concerned, resurrected monsters must be killed. i'd forgotten the actual formal statement of the rules was so ambiguous, though, that's interesting...

02-19-04 20:13 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
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/me cries out loud ... AdamW hates me ! :)

Well, stop kidding, I do not mind to give it another go... I am just wondering if It could fit your timeframe.

Or maybe we could all get another week in order to improve our own times (and not kick others stuff).

If someone goes for h2-15, I'll personally pay him a him a visit and put a BFG shot between his eyes.

02-19-04 21:34 #

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Ryback
Member

Posts: 370
Registered: 06-01

The c-n rules also state that you must record your demos with Doom2.exe, and we've already broken that one.

The consensus seems to be that we keep the demo in, and I'm fine with that. Still, if you want to beat it before Altima and Radek send in their comments Vince, go ahead. You'll probably have at least until the weekend :)

02-19-04 21:51 #

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Altima
Junior Member

Posts: 230
Registered: 02-03

I'm one to say it should be redone. I mean, we've put all this time, effort, and work, into making this pack complete...

As far as my comments go, they're on hold until Friday or Saturday, as I'm at University right now, and I probably won't make it home until around 1 or 2 AM (in my time zone anyway), so Vince, you've got at least until then to improve it =) Good luck ^^

And...yeah...strange how that rule is so...hazy.. o.o

02-19-04 22:04 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

Alright, Ill give it some more tries until you get all comments.
I'll anyway check the 2 other demos that are below 20 mins.

02-19-04 22:21 #

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Szymanski

Posts: 995
Registered: 08-00

Offtopic, why can you leave the lost souls out?

02-19-04 22:31 #

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Kristian Ronge
Senior Member

Posts: 1927
Registered: 11-03

They tend to drift off and place themselves in hard-to-reach or unreachable places. Plus it's hard to keep track of all souls spawned by the Pain Elementals.

That, in conjunction, I guess, with the fact that in doom(2).exe, and many/most other engines, lost souls don't count towards the kill % (Which of course you knew).

EDIT: Aha, Graham already answered it much better than I did in The Fragport Pack thread.

Last edited by Kristian Ronge on 02-19-04 at 22:46

02-19-04 22:40 #

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Ryback
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Posts: 370
Registered: 06-01

And sometimes when you kill PEs a lost soul gets spawned outside the play area. Tough to kill those guys.

02-19-04 22:50 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

in hr2 15, its better to get rid of em. You often have to use rockets... and It is known that everybody enjoys having a lost soul flying between you and the foes you are rocketing.

Last edited by VinceDSS on 02-20-04 at 00:35

02-19-04 23:36 #

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lupinx_resurrected
Mini-Member

Posts: 96
Registered: 12-03

I hope your niece comes out ok raggy.

demo? hmmmm...

02-20-04 02:50 #

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ragnew
Member

Posts: 390
Registered: 07-03

Hey Guys, this isn't on the whole HR2 demo pack, but I just wanted to say thanks for all the kind words where my little niece was concerned... Things are looking much, much better, and shes been at home for the last couple of days... Still not 100%, but Haley at 80% is much better then the almost dead baby that she was on Valentines Day... Pretty scary shit that we just went through... To say the least, but the past is the past. And now's the present... :)

Thanks again guys,
- Raggy...

02-20-04 05:28 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

Good news Richie ! I am a non-believer but my thoughts are for you and your niece.

Demopack related :
I think the map15 16:56 I have is complete (I don't see anything moving on the map), but Ill check it further this weekend.
Right now I have a good cold, so I am not really in mood for spending a couple hours on the computer. Ill see how I feel this weekend coz this 16:56 is even worse than the 16:06 (quality wise).

02-20-04 15:59 #

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VinceDSS
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 11-02

With the help of some medecine, I was able to play hr2-15 a bit today. I made a 1:32 improvement. It's now down to 14:34... and it seems complete (I checked with eternity walkcam). So it should be perfectly valid, unless I am completely blind :).

This demo is much smoother than previous ones... still some mistakes tho. (I forgot to kill the hell knight on the teleporter, I remembered it later, so I had to come back, small time loss anyway:)

I uploaded the demo, mail me right away if you see something wrong :)

Ryback : Edited my comments in former post.

__________________
An old fart...
Demofreak, Coop addict, occasional Deathmatcher (as Lammah). Created Alien Vendetta Map25. Currently working on Plutonia2 and his own project.

Last edited by VinceDSS on 02-21-04 at 04:25

02-21-04 02:45 #

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